Fanless 1.86 GHz Yonah, 945GM systems for $140 ...

ist.martin · Post by **ist.martin** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:01 am

I have no affiliation with it, but I saw these on eBay and thought they were a terrific deal:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0383882308

Logic Supply is a great company. I just bought a 32 GB SLC IDE flash drive from them for $100. I put my own 0 dB system on it, and it feels like I have a fast modern computer - in spite of the fact that I am running a 1.5 GHz Celeron M - slower than the system they are currently selling.

If you check their feedback, it looks as if they are accepting $140 offers for them.

$30 of memory and a $100 SATA solid state drive, and you have a great little 0 dB system for under $300!

hmsrolst · Post by **hmsrolst** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:22 am

Ditto on Logic Supply. Excellent service!

hmsrolst · Post by **hmsrolst** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:03 pm

I just picked one up by offering $140. I have spare RAM, SSD and wireless adapter, so this is pretty sweet. Thanks!

David.Barclay · Post by **David.Barclay** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:10 am

At $140 that is a great price.
Can anyone comment on this, it does seem very low for what you get.
Is it because of the 945 chipset? Or just old stock that is getting out of date?

thoughts?
David

Post by **Ralf Hutter** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:35 am

ist.martin wrote:I am running a 1.5 GHz Celeron M - slower than the system they are currently selling.

Do you know what your idle power consumption is?

hmsrolst · Post by **hmsrolst** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:53 am

David.Barclay wrote:Or just old stock that is getting out of date?

thoughts?
David

I suspect that's it. I think they have over 70 available, and there are newer models, so they're probably just trying to get their money out and into other products.

cybershare · Post by **cybershare** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:56 am

The CPU is NOT included in the system. The warranty is a one year warranty from the manufacturer.

hmsrolst · Post by **hmsrolst** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:54 pm

I received mine on Friday and set up a system today. As the previous post states, it does not come with a CPU (unfortunately misleading ad). However, the list of compatible processors includes the Core Solo T1300 of which there are many available on ebay for less than $10 shipped. Fortunately, I had a spare T1200 (1.5Ghz, 2MB L2 cache, 667Ghz FSB), and although it's not listed as compatible, it is a <27W CPU which is what the installation guide mentions.

I installed 2GB of RAM, the T1200 and a Samsung 64GB SLC SSD, using RC1 of Windows 7 as the OS. The OS installed without problems, although a Windows Update for the wireless adapter I was using toasted the first install. The system is very nicely responsive (primarily due to the SSD, I assume), although not so much as later Core Duo systems I use with SSD's. It idles at 20W with temps that gradually work up to the low to mid-60's (still well below any concern given the laptop components).

I like to have a separate system for personal financial information (any excuse for another toy), and I'm planning to use it for that purpose. And it will take up a lot let space than the system in an Antec P180 that I'm currently using.

Again, I wouldn't want to use it for my primary system, but I'm spoiled by somewhat more up-to-date components. All-in-all, for the money, I recommend it.

And, of course, it's totally solid state and silent.

Wayne Redpath · Post by **Wayne Redpath** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 7:14 pm

Intel sells more models of CPU's than are listed on the intel.com site in countries with lesser economies that the US economy.

The same applies to Mainboard manufacturers.

duality · Post by **duality** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:28 pm

Just ordered one; I wonder how it will handle as a low-power server.

It's kinda funny, though. Thermal rating for the Core Solo is 31W. The maximum recommended thermal rating for the product is 27W. I wonder if that means I can try putting in a Core Duo with same thermal rating?

hmsrolst · Post by **hmsrolst** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:21 am

duality wrote: It's kinda funny, though. Thermal rating for the Core Solo is 31W. The maximum recommended thermal rating for the product is 27W. I wonder if that means I can try putting in a Core Duo with same thermal rating?

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_In ... processors TDP for Core Solo, except for T1350, is 27W

duality · Post by **duality** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:50 pm

hmsrolst wrote: According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_In ... processors TDP for Core Solo, except for T1350, is 27W

That's what I saw too, but on http://processorfinder.intel.com/Detail ... pec=SL9L5# it says 31W.

dawza · Post by **dawza** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:51 am

I just received all of the parts for my mini fanless system, so here is a quick summary.

Specs:

CPU: T1300 (1.66GHz, Core Solo, 27W TDP)
SSD: OCZ Vertex 30GB
RAM: 2x1GB DDR2 667 SODIMMs
WiFi: Intel 2200BG mini PCI w/5" U.FL-->RPSMA pigtail
OS: Vista Business x86

1. AOpen is not kidding about the 27W TDP/Core Solo limit. While the system idles at 60C, I have hit 100C+ more than a few times. Fortunately, the CPU does throttle itself, so I did not experience any instability. I actually purchased a T2300E, thinking that an extra 4W TDP could not possibly make a difference, but am now confident that it would not work, unless the system was at idle 99.99% of the time (which kind of defeats the purpose of having a dual-core processor to begin with).

If this system is to be run in hot environments under load, I think a LV or ULV processor is mandatory, and an SSD highly recommended.

2. As stated above, the system idles at 60-62C at room temp (20-23C). Under normal web browsing (no flash), it hovers in the 70-85C range. Flash (Youtube, Hulu, etc) brings the temps to the 92-96C range. I have only experienced 100C/throttling with multiple CPU-intensive tasks (i.e. installing updates while watching a Flash video) or stress tests (Prime).

3. As one might expect, the case gets HOT. A "warning, hot surface" sticker is included for a reason. Seriously, the case can get hot enough to cause burns. You definitely want to put the rubber case feet on the bottom if you have a wood desk.

4. Performance is for the most part satisfactory, if not surprisingly good considering the 1.66GHz single-core processor. I have no problems with (all fullscreen at 1920x1200) HQ and most HD Youtube. 480P videos on CBS.com play without issue, and 720P is watchable. For some reason, Hulu does not play well, even at standard definition. It is bearable (~18-20FPS), though. Application launching and such are obviously not up to snuff compared to a modern system, but light-years better than an Atom. Let's just say that it is responsive enough not to be annoying.

5. No provisions for adjusting any voltages or FSB in BIOS.

6. Aero performance is actually pretty decent, even at 1920x1200.

Conclusion so far- this has been an interesting and educational experience. I definitely love the tiny form factor, absolute silence, and lack of moving parts. However, I am uncomfortable with the fact that the CPU hits 95C+ on a regular basis. It's too bad that the LV and ULV CPUs are so difficult to source at reasonable prices.

The build quality and engineering that went into this system is impressive. Everything just fits, and the thermal management was carefully thought out. Even so, I strongly suggest using an SSD, mainly because of heat, but also because it allows for a completely silent, solid-state system. Do not expect SSD performance to be any better than a 7.2K spindle drive, though, as the CPU is going to be the bottleneck more often than not.

hmsrolst · Post by **hmsrolst** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:11 am

dawza wrote:It's too bad that the LV and ULV CPUs are so difficult to source at reasonable prices.

I haven't looked recently but most of these processors in the past have been the kind that are soldered to the motherboard, not socket-style.

Nice review and pretty similar to my experience (although since my needs for the system are so modest, I seldom get out of idle for very long).

dawza · Post by **dawza** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:40 am

You are right- the majority of LV/ULV CPUs were soldered on. However, there are some socketed versions listed on Wikipedia, and there is one seller on Ebay that carries them. His pics confirm that they are socketed, and from some searching, it appears that these may be engineering samples.

In any event, the price for a ULV 1.33 GHz solo is about $100 shipped, and the LV duo (L2300) is about $125. I am not sure I can justify spending even $100 on a CPU for a system that so far has cost <$300. After all, this is just another toy, and not a tool for running mission-critical devices.

My main concern right now is the SSD temperature. Unfortunately, I have no way to measure the temperature (no sensor), but even though most SSDs run close to ambient, the HDD region has to be close to the upper limit of the SSD's thermal spec (70C) when the CPU is at full load. I suppose I should trust that AOpen's engineers took this into account, and that the HDD cage heatsinks will prove sufficient, seeing as how a spindle HDD is only spec'd to 55C.

hmsrolst · Post by **hmsrolst** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:32 pm

Thanks for pointing these CPUs out. Since except for the $140 for the AOpen itself and $5 for a pair of antennae , everything else I used was from spare parts, I also find it hard to go for one of the lower voltage CPUs. I'm somewhat tempted by the U1500, but wonder if at idle it would get much lower power usage than the 20W I get now. That is, there may be little difference between the 27W and the 5.5W until the CPU is stressed significantly. What do you think?

dawza · Post by **dawza** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:54 am

I am not sure how much additional power you would save- obviously, it would take a very long time to recoup the electricity costs, but I am guessing your goal is to see how low you can get the power draw just for the fun of it.

Below is a link to an undervolting experiment using the Celeron 220 on the D201GLY2 board, where a ~0.206 decrease in core voltage resulted in a dramatic decrease in heat output in a passive cooling scenario. I am not sure how this would translate to power consumption, though.

http://www.exoid.com/?p=1161

hmsrolst · Post by **hmsrolst** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:26 pm

dawza wrote:I am guessing your goal is to see how low you can get the power draw just for the fun of it.

Excellent guess!

Interesting link, but at this point I'm not thinking the fun is worth the $100. Maybe another time, though.

ist.martin · Post by **ist.martin** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:05 pm

First, I want to apologize. In my original post, I hadn't realized that the CPU was not included in the price.

Second, I am surprised the CPU temps are so high. I didn't end up buying one of the AOPens here, but I do have a similar fanless enclosure Cappuccino PC with a 1.5 GHz Celeron M Dothan-1024 (21W TDP according to Wikipedia). My temps never get much above 43* C. (http://www.cappuccinopc.com/slimpro-sp645f.asp)

Are the Core Solo's really that much hotter than my Celeron M? Or is the AoPen enclosure not as thermally efficient as the Cappucino PC?

dawza · Post by **dawza** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:12 am

It's probably a combination of the two factors. The Cappuccino's case is designed to act as a heatsink, and I assume that the system is built to take advantage of that (heatpipes contacting the case at multiple points); the AOpen is just a ventilated case. On top of that, an extra 6W of heat output (21W vs 27W) can definitely make some difference in tiny, fanless enclosures. My non-scientific observation of the 31W TDP Core Duo vs. the 27W TDP Core Solo is that the Core Duo is hotter by a decent amount (I only booted up to the BIOS with the two processors, and there is no BIOS temp monitor).

Is your temp of 43C during full load, or just normal use?

ist.martin · Post by **ist.martin** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:34 am

43*C is average during normal use. SInce it is a very low-power CPU, I am often at 40% CPU usage.

I did run CPUBurn once, and I cannot remember with certainty, but I don't recall it ever getting over 70*C.

dawza · Post by **dawza** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:31 pm

Just thought I would post a quick update, for those who got in on this deal and might be looking to upgrade their CPU performance for a reasonable price.

I had been using the system with a Core Solo T1300 (1.66) and found two issues:

1. Full-screen Hulu ran at an unacceptable 18-20FPS, resulting in a choppy experience. This seemed to be a Hulu-specific issue, as Youtube HD and CBS shows worked just fine.

2. Prolonged full-screen flash resulted in occasional throttling due to heat buildup.

I had a Core Duo T2300e CPU on hand that I had not even bothered to try (since there was no chance a 31W TDP dual-core CPU would fit within the thermal envelope of a system that was struggling with a single-core 27W TDP CPU). However, using RMClock, and following the undervolting guide on Notebookreview's forums, I was able to lower the voltage at the highest multiplier from 1.26V-->1.15V (with the T2300e).

I am currently stress/thermal-testing with Orthos, and so far, after 45 minutes, temps have remained below 96C with no signs of instability. I am sure I could lower the voltage even further and/or disable the highest multiplier if needed.

With the additional core, Hulu runs at 35-40FPS, and I can now use this little box as a full-fledged media center.

Fanless 1.86 GHz Yonah, 945GM systems for $140 ...

Fanless 1.86 GHz Yonah, 945GM systems for $140 ...

Re: Fanless 1.86 GHz Yonah, 945GM systems for $140 ...

Mini-review

My apologies

temps