Seasonic Super Silencer 460W

PSUs: The source of DC power for all components in the PC & often a big noise source.

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gustavs_a
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Seasonic Super Silencer 460W

Post by gustavs_a » Sun Feb 01, 2004 7:27 am

Anyone got it and can comment about its noise?

Is it true that the 400W model is quieter than 300W in higher PC load, because its components can handle heat better? This is the reason I am thinking about getting the 460W model.

What would be the best replacement fan for it to make it even quieter?

Thank you

gustavs_a
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Mod

Post by gustavs_a » Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:53 am

How about replacing the fan with PAPST 8412N/2GML (26,5CFM, 19dB) and using the voltage from MB to bypass the controller (unless its fixed)? Would that be enough for a P4 1.6A \w Zalman flower cooler @ just 1090RPM, Sapphire 9600Pro \w Zalman heatpipe, no other fans in system?

If the original fan is 32CFM, the difference shouldn't be that big and since the 460W model has components designed for more heat I think it would run fine.

Has anyone done a similar mod for the 300/400W model?

cosmo696
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Problem with Seasonic SS460 - it's LOUD

Post by cosmo696 » Sun Feb 01, 2004 10:18 am

I just bought the Seasonic SS460 based on the recommendations on this website on seasonic PSUs. I am not sure it was a such a good buy.

My system is far away from quiet at this point - that's why I have been lurking around for a while on this site and why I bought the seasonic. Still my PSU is the loudest thing in my whole setup - not in idle mode but as soon as I do even very minor things like copying file from one drive to another. If I start working in photoshop my system sounds like a mid-size vacum cleaner.

I bought this unit because in promised enough "juice" for my system and it promised to be silent. Well, that is only if I don't touch the machine.

Components:
ASUS P4P800
2 WD Raptors (not vibration isolated!!) in RAID 0
2 IDE drives - one is a 7200rpm
P4 3.0c with stock cooling!
1GB GeIL PC4000
1 CD writer
1 CD Rom drive
2 case fans @5V with fan controller.

As you can see - it shouldn't be the PSU that I am hearing in my system! As soon as the rpm's go over 2000 the PSU becomes audible - still I can hear the stock fan on the P4. Once the Seasonic goes over 2500 it's already louder than all other components.

The rpm on the PSU ramp up MUCH faster than even the CPU fan - which is idling at <2000 when the PSU fan hits the 2800 rpm mark. After a couple of runs in Sisoft Sandra's "burn-in" mode the CPU fan catches up and both of the spin just under 3000 rpm.

The fan control seems very "itchy" - speeding up the fan as soon as I start an application. For a $110 PSU - this should not be the case and I am sure I am not nearly as picky as most posters on this website :wink:

I am definitely going to RMA this unit - probably have to pay the 15% restocking fee - as the unit isn't really broken - it just doesn't work as expected.

I am also not sure if it has enough & stable power - I easily overclocked the P4 to FSB 245 - that is 3.7 Ghz. The Vcore voltage seemed to fluctuate a lot at higher CPU speeds - sometimes dropping down to 1.5V (I set it to 1.625V). By the way the CPU temp didn't go over 58 celsius at all times. The system crashed after running about 5-6 cycles of Sandra's CPU benmark with the burn-in wizard.

Does anyone have a recommendation for a powerful & quiet PSU to replace this unit?

Joe DeFuria
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Post by Joe DeFuria » Sun Feb 01, 2004 12:09 pm

I sold my (unopened) 460W Seasoninc to another SPCR member, who just received it a few days ago.

His initial comments were basically this:

1) Fan speed is stable...doesn't ramp up with an increased load.
2) However, he's not satisified with the base level fan noise itself.

So, he's likely going to try and mod the unit by replacing the stock fan with a quieter one. Hopefully, he'll brief us all once he decides what to do.

Gxcad
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Post by Gxcad » Wed Feb 04, 2004 12:18 am

Hi Joe and others ;)

I would be that member, here is the comments I sent to joe pretty much copied and pasted:

"First of all, the good news is the fan doesn't rev up even under 3dmark load, albiet I've only done 5 minutes worth of load. No reving up and down like others have complained about particularly in rev 2 SS supers. The bad news is that I am dissapointed in the noise level. It is simply not quiet enough for my taste with the stock fan. I would guesstimate the noise level of the fan to be on par with the reference panaflo 80mm L1A fan at ~9-10v, but with worse characteristics such as mechanical noise which the panaflo lacks (just the whoosh of air). In particular, it has a lot of bearing chatter which basically sounds like a constant harddisk seek at about double the speed. If this is working as advertised and this is the result, I'd say a few silence seeking people on this forum could tolerate this psu with the stock fan (though far from silent, it is also far from very loud) but most of the hardcore ppl would be dissapointed and throw their warranty out the window. I am almost certain I will have to void mine as well and drop in a L1A. I am confident however that after an L1A mod this PSU would be a dream, pity about the warranty but hopefully it will live well on low airflow for at least 3 years...

Overall, I'm very happy with it, so long as its as expected after some modding (L1A with fan isolators) which I'm quite confident it will be. Just wish they used a better fan to begin with. I think the 460W version paid off in terms of fan not reving up!

BTW, I forgot to check which revision I have...will follow up if you're interested when I find out, though I don't even know how to check...(yet)."

I have since done the fan swap and mounted it using EAR isolating fan mounts, here are my followup comments:

"First of all, the mod is impossible without voiding the warranty (such as leaving the last screw on and trying to squeeze the fan in there). I did succeed in opening the housing enough for the fan to be unplugged and swapped but the wiring would have been nearly impossible. I destroyed any evidence of the "warranty void if removed" sticker ever existing and opened er' up. I used Mike C's method to swap the fan by uprooting the entire connector exposing the 2 bare pins. Panaflo L1A plugged right in (sorry no pics...no digi cam :( ).

Here is the short article, as mike would say, "it hit me like a ton of bricks. Of course!" I never thought about it but this is a great and easy way to connect a panaflo to a seasonic (or enermax, zalman, or other similar connector) psu fan connector:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/Sections+ ... age-1.html

Needless to say the psu after the fan swap is MUCH quieter, and also obviously pushes less air. Its not going to overheat and blow anytime soon however with 80% efficiency, but it very well may reduce the lifetime of the psu. Is it quiet enough for my standards? Yes, it sounds like a panaflo at about 6v I would say, even though it is supposedly started at ~4.3v. Perhaps it is the air turbulence. Also of note is the fan starts consistently EVERY time unlike some reports. The fan never revs up or down, possibly due to this being a 460W model. I also mounted the fan using EAR isolating fan mounts, can't say if it helps or not since I didn't compare, but the fact is even mounted with these isolation mounts, the back of the fan is pressed against the PCB inside, which means it isn't completely decoupled anyway, though I think the PCB transmits less vibrations than direct mounting to the exhaust frame of the PSU.

I am very happy with the result, but can't shake the feeling that my old enermax with modded panaflo was even quieter...hmmmm."

Perhaps I installed a dud panaflo, though I find them remarkably consistent in their quality. I also have an old batch, which Mike C. says he has good experiences with. I think he got 20 or so from me directly out of my batch.

The question that many members may have is "does the lower airflow cause the temperature to rise, thus causing the S2FC fan controller to apply more voltage to the fan, making it spin faster and therfore negate the effects of dropping in a quieter fan (in my case the reference L1A) in the first place?" The answer is no the fan does not spin up at least in the 460W version, the mod is successful and recommended with this high wattage version. It may be a different story in the 300w version however...

-Ken

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Post by Trip » Wed Feb 04, 2004 12:32 am

"the back of the fan is pressed against the PCB inside, which means it isn't completely decoupled anyway"

dag! could you unsrew the PSU board's screws, push board back, rescrew screws, and see if it fits? My board went back a little by doing this - I was trying to squeeze the fan in and didn't want to break anything. Watch those little screws, I spent more time looking for one of them in my carpet than I did doing the rest of the fan swap. My L1A also starts up automatically each time - 400W version.

Decoupling the fan on the outside of the PSU is also an option but it would likely require a few snips on the back of your case to get to the PSU screw holes.

I really think this mod will decrease noise significantly in my PSU. I've also been considering some foam on the inner and outer lining of the PSU - dunno what'd be thin enough.

I didn't think enough air was coming through my PSU either and considered replacing the L1A with FBK08A12M. I'm going to move it into a case with less negative pressure and will see how it runs there.

Did you open your back vents?

Gxcad
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Re: Mod

Post by Gxcad » Wed Feb 04, 2004 7:32 pm

gustavs_a wrote:If the original fan is 32CFM, the difference shouldn't be that big and since the 460W model has components designed for more heat I think it would run fine.

Has anyone done a similar mod for the 300/400W model?
FYI, the difference between 24 and 32cfm is 7 db according to panasonic's specs, and the panaflo M1A pushes 32cfm, same as the stock fan (assuming that info is correct, I thot it was 35cfm). If you're going to take out the superred 32cfm fan and replace it with a panaflo 32cfm fan, do you really think it would be much quieter? The superred fan is already slightly decoupled using rubber grommets...

Trip, I did not open my rear vents or do any sort of bending 90 degrees and such. As for fan mounting, I think it would be possible to slip a thin peice of cork between the fan and the PCB as long as you put the cork there before letting the fan settle into place. I did not look or even think about unscrewing and moving the PCB. I'll tell ya I had a heck of a time installing the last EAR isolator (the corner which is towards the middle and near the height of the PCB). I did consider doing the EAR isolators all over again with cork between the fan and PCB, but at that point I had spend 3-4 hours modding that psu (partially because it was my first time using EAR isolators). Instead I tried turning it on and was satisfied with the noise level so I left it, I think the amount of vibrations transmitted is negligible because only two small areas of the fan are being pressed against the PCB. Again, sorry I have no digicam.

Would anyone be interested in buying this modded 460 watter? Due to an unexpected tightening of funds I am considering going with the 300W I got in the mail today. Everything is included and in new condition. PSU was used for about 20 hours combined at the time of this writing. (about half of those hours are post-mods). This PSU is very very quiet and does not spin up or down in my setup. About as quiet as a fanned psu can get.

Anyway, thats that for now.

-Ken

gustavs_a
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Re: Mod

Post by gustavs_a » Thu Feb 05, 2004 1:23 am

Gxcad wrote:FYI, the difference between 24 and 32cfm is 7 db according to panasonic's specs, and the panaflo M1A pushes 32cfm, same as the stock fan (assuming that info is correct, I thot it was 35cfm).
I am talking about replacing the stock fan with PAPST 8412N/2GML (26,5CFM, 19dB), I don't want to use a 32CFM fan, it would probably be too loud. The stock SuperRed fan has 32.5CFM, 34dB at full load (info from http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm? ... 445&page=2 , unless the 460W model uses a different fan)

32.5-26.5=6CFM less - would that be ok?

34-19=15dB quieter!!! (at full load)

80mm Panaflo L1A specs says 24CFM, 21dB

Is this PAPST really a better fan than Panaflo L1A or the specs are misleading?

MikeC
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Re: Mod

Post by MikeC » Thu Feb 05, 2004 8:32 am

gustavs_a wrote:I am talking about replacing the stock fan with PAPST 8412N/2GML (26,5CFM, 19dB), I don't want to use a 32CFM fan, it would probably be too loud. The stock SuperRed fan has 32.5CFM, 34dB at full load (info from http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm? ... 445&page=2 , unless the 460W model uses a different fan)

32.5-26.5=6CFM less - would that be ok?

34-19=15dB quieter!!! (at full load)

80mm Panaflo L1A specs says 24CFM, 21dB

Is this PAPST really a better fan than Panaflo L1A or the specs are misleading?
All CFM are not created equal. :wink:

I've listened to a Panaflo 80M and the 80mm SuperRed -- no contest, the Panaflo is far nicer to hear. I'd make that swap in an instant. I'd use an 80L only with a PSU fresh air duct.

I've also listened to so-called 12/14 dBA Papst 80s. Complete BS, IMO. If the bearing does not tick, I'd say it exhibits a bit lower noise than a Panaflo 80L -- but also lower airflow.

cosmo696
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Post by cosmo696 » Fri Feb 06, 2004 8:00 pm

Gxcad,

can I asked what kind of components you are powering with the SS460? Since I wrote my initial reply I have had some more time to let this unit run under normal and very light load conditions. I am still far away from happy about the high reving fan.

I found this link that was posted from a SPCR forum member:
http://takaman.jp/psu_calc.html?english

to a calculator that gives you an estimate for the needed power supply after you type in all your components. Other than the additional two hard drives my system isn't all that different from a normal 3Ghz with RAID 0 setup. I know the following is probably a sum of the peak loads of all components but at least it's something to go by.

total output 354.6W or above
3.3 + 5V combined MAX 88.4W or above
3.3 + 5 + 12V combined MAX 344.6W or above
3.3V line MAX 8.5A or above
5V line MAX 12.1A or above
12V line MAX 21.4A or above

I ordered a Antec TruePower 550 Watt power supply - I should have it tomorrow - I wonder how it will perform compared to the SS460

gustavs_a
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Re: Mod

Post by gustavs_a » Wed Feb 11, 2004 2:14 am

I have ordered the Super Silencer 460W, Zalman fanmate controller and the Panaflo L1A, I couldn't find the M1A in any european sites.

1) How do I test if PSU is not overheating?
2) How to make a PSU fresh air duct?

Thank you,
Gustavs

Gxcad
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Post by Gxcad » Thu Feb 12, 2004 2:19 am

Cosmo, I can tell you that my system uses very little power normally (under 60W total measured by kill a watt power meter) but I also tested with the power up to ~85W with no change. I have had the power draw up to over 100W at one point, and although I didn't pay attention to the psu ramping (it was more of a new heatsink and cpu temp test, therfore raising vcore and mhz, therfore raising power draw) and did not notice any strange noises such as fans speeding up coming from the back of the pc.

Here is a quick rundown of my system as of now:

Abit KD7
Mushkin 256mb PC3000
Athlon 1700+ JIUHB 0312 @ 1166mhz and 1.1vcore (~15w?)
Barracuda IV 80gig
Lite On DVD
Lite On CDRW
Sony Floppy
Sunbeam Rheobus
Radeon 9000pro
3 120mm JMC fans ~4v, 1 120mm ball bearing panaflo ~4v, Zalman 7000A AlCu (fan at ~4v)
Santa Cruz Soundcard
Seasonic SS460W mod panaflo 80mm@ ~4.5v?

As you can see I have only one hdd, no extra PCI cards, a low power videocard, cpu at very low vcore, and so on.

Gustavs,

There should be a sticky in the psu forum for the fresh air duct

You know its not overheating if it STILL WORKS. Seriously? I don't know, make sure the fan is spinning (stick in the end of a zip tie or similar if necessary to hear it) and feel the air coming out. If you have one, stick a temp probe somewhere in the psu and measure it, though I'm not sure where you'd stick it to or what safe temps would be...

-Ken

gustavs_a
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Post by gustavs_a » Mon Feb 16, 2004 4:52 am

Today received the PSU. I am quite pleased with the noise level even with the stock fan, it is quieter that my old Codegen 350W PSU. The fan ir rotating at much lower RPM, but makes a bit of clicking noise. So far it's working at very stable RPM, no noticeable revving up and down with changing CPU usage, the old PSU had this VERY annoying habit to change the sound pitch according to CPU usage. I am going to replace the stock fan with Panaflo L1A.

Voltage report from SpeedFan V4.05:

Vcore1: 1.44V
Vcore2: 1.79V
+3.3V: 3.20V
+5V: 5.00V
+12V: 11.65V
-12V: -12.20V
-5V: 0.37V !!! - is this normal???
+5V(2nd): 4.9V
Vbat: 3.18V
Last edited by gustavs_a on Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:12 am, edited 2 times in total.

gustavs_a
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Post by gustavs_a » Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:00 am

Just did a test with a program that changes the CPU usage from 0 to 100% every second. Actually there is a difference in sound that I didn't noticed first or it has started only now! I'll try to power the replacement fan from MB, maybe that will fix it.

Joe DeFuria
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Post by Joe DeFuria » Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:01 am

gustavs_a wrote:-5V: 0.37V !!! - is this normal???
Yup...because there is no -5V rail. :wink: Any -5V reading should be ignored.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article97-page2.html
The Seasonic Super Silencer 400 is the first PSU we've seen that is compliant with Intel's ATX12V Version 1.3 Power Supply Design Guide released a couple months ago. One of the changes from version 1.2 to 1.3 is the removal of the –5V rail. It is no longer required, and the Super Silencer family does not provide it. Apparently its absence does not cause any conflict with recent motherboards produced prior to the v1.3 guide.

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Post by efcoins » Tue Feb 17, 2004 2:13 am

gustavs_a

Looking at your spec you have 2 case fans at 5V, presumably one input and one exhaist. As a result there is very little cooling air in your case, at anything other than idle all your temp controlled fans will speed up, but they will not achieve much, they just stir up the hot air.

I think your problem is with your case temp not your PSU

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Post by gustavs_a » Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:54 am

efcoins wrote:gustavs_a

Looking at your spec you have 2 case fans at 5V, presumably one input and one exhaist. As a result there is very little cooling air in your case, at anything other than idle all your temp controlled fans will speed up, but they will not achieve much, they just stir up the hot air.

I think your problem is with your case temp not your PSU
The speedup was just by a few RPMs, almost unnoticeable. I couldn't notice it during the daytime due to background noises. I don't think it's from case temp, because the noise changes are immediate.
My system has no case fans at all and I have never used any case fans in none of my PCs, without problems! The CPU and HDD temp is ok.
Thanks, but case fans would increase the noise which I don't want.

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Post by efcoins » Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:00 am

Sorry, I was looking at cosmo696's post when I wrote that

Stephen7372
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Post by Stephen7372 » Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:50 am

seasonic tornado is quieter :x

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