Worth replacing 120mm fan in Seasonic Super Tornado?

Becks · Post by **Becks** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:27 pm

I ordered a bunch of the NMB DC4710NL... I forget the rest of its model number

Is it worth replacing the fan in teh super tornado with one?

Anything else i could to to potentialy make it quieter?

Talz · Post by **Talz** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:25 pm

I'm in the middle of replacing the fan on mine, it spins up just a little to much when the side is on my case. I've been happy as can be with the power supply, even if I did decide it was slightly to noisy. But replacing the fan has changed that, some bozo at seasonic changed the fan control header from the standard 3 pin connector found in the reviews here to a 2 pin connector that is a real pain. I hate it, one of the reason's I bought this was because the review unit had such a simple 10 minute job to replace the fan if I ever wanted to. I'm also slightly annoyed with evercools aluminum fan, can't mount it to blow the proper direction without very long screws.

I'll work around it all tomorrow after I pick-up a few parts, but it should have been done tonight. Someone at Seasonic really needs smacked though. I hate it when companies market a product to enthusiasts, and then remove features like this. I'll report back tomorrow sometime after I get it all mounted in the case, I have the fan mounted outside the psu, with the psu outside the case right now.

Talz · Post by **Talz** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 8:41 pm

Well, I killed it. I don't know how, I was careful not to touch anything but it won't power on at all. It's as if the switch in back is stuck turned off. I had it all working with the fan outside the ps, moved it inside and now I get no juice at all, no matter what.

zuperdee · Post by **zuperdee** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 8:59 pm

Talz wrote:Well, I killed it. I don't know how, I was careful not to touch anything but it won't power on at all. It's as if the switch in back is stuck turned off. I had it all working with the fan outside the ps, moved it inside and now I get no juice at all, no matter what.

Hmm... You might want to check--do you have a blown fuse inside your unit? If so, then there might still be hope of you fixing it!!!

One possibility that comes to my mind (having never owned a Seasonic or an Evercool) is that you failed to properly isolate the aluminum frame of the fan electrically from the casing of the power supply. Notice in the review at SPCR that it says, "Like in the Super Silencer 400, an unusual aspect of the fan circuitry is that its ground is isolated from the rest of the PSU, apparently to ensure that the fan voltage does not sag even with high loads on the main output lines. Normally, only the positive voltage lead to the fan needs to be tapped; the negative voltage can be read from any black lead on any output connector, a 4-pin Molex being the most convenient. Not so here. Both positive and negative leads to the fan had to be tapped to measure the fan voltage."

Also, I'm thinking you might want to make sure that the frame of your fan does not touch the heatsinks. I once made the mistake of not putting back some mica insulators when I was replacing the power transistors in an old stereo receiver made back in the early 70's. You see, I didn't realize that the power transistors needed to be isolated electrically from the heatsinks--I figured by not putting the insulators back, I could improve the heat transfer to the heatsinks. The result? When I turned the unit on to test it, the thing made a loud BANG!!!! Luckily, it did blow a fuse, and I was able to repair the problem by simply replacing the mica insulators, and thne replacing the fuse. But it was a lesson I'll never forget.

dxdn · Post by **dxdn** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 9:01 pm

Unless there was a big explosion with smoke and flames chances are that it's just the fuse. If look at the PSU board you see a chart with the proper fuse ratings, eg. 400W requires a 7A 250V fuse. The fuse is near the edge of the board, soldered and heat shrinked.

Talz · Post by **Talz** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 9:17 pm

I think one of the screws mounting the fan could have touched a heatsink, it was a real pain finding screws the right size. Guess that's what I get for being so impatient. I'll try that when I get some spare time though.

zuperdee · Post by **zuperdee** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 9:30 pm

dxdn wrote:Unless there was a big explosion with smoke and flames chances are that it's just the fuse. If look at the PSU board you see a chart with the proper fuse ratings, eg. 400W requires a 7A 250V fuse. The fuse is near the edge of the board, soldered and heat shrinked.

You could be right. However, I feel it my duty to point out that usually, a blown fuse is a sign of a deeper electrical fault. Most ESPECIALLY in something as highly engineered as a PSU, it is very unusual for a fuse to blow for simply no reason.

Bottom line: At the very least, I'd recommend checking to make sure your aluminum-framed fan is electrically isolated from the casing and the heatsink before you continue. A good solution might be to use something like a Vantec silica-gel vibration dampener frame on the fan. That might even have the added benefit of reducing vibration as well.

Incidentally, I also hope the fuse is not soldered to the unit--that would be VERY bad news. In fact, I consider that a sign of poor engineering. Things like fuses should NOT be soldered in--that kinda defeats one of their purposes, if you know what I mean.

Anyway, if problems persist after you replace the fuse and have checked for the obvious kinds of problems, then I dunno what else to suggest.

zuperdee · Post by **zuperdee** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:34 am

Just thought you folks might be interested in this quote I found in this thread:

Inexplicable wrote:In my case (a Seasonic 300FT) decoupling the thermistor from the heatsink stopped the fan from revving up wildly with each change of CPU load. Now the fan hardly ever speeds up. I have no idea why that worked so well as I doubt the temperature of the heatsink varies quite that quickly. I suspect there is something more strange going. People have claimed that the heatsink is live. I wonder if changes in the voltage potential of the heatsink can affect the thermistor somehow.

In any case, decoupling the thermistor involves removing a single screw. It's a lot easier than replacing or bypassing the circuitry and undervolting the fan. I'd try it first and see what happens.

Talz, I'd say if it is in fact true that the heatsink carries voltage potential, then your screw touching that heatsink probably was indeed what caused that fuse to blow, since it would be causing a short circuit inside the unit. I'd suggest that you check this possibility--it can be done very easily with a multimeter or a volt-meter--simply touch one probe to the heatsink, and the other to a known grounding source (such as the casing of the unit)--if there is in fact voltage on the heatsink, then you've got your answer. (Do all this once you've replaced the fuse, of course.

)

I'd say in light of this new evidence I found in the other thread, it also sounds like you might want to consider de-coupling the thermister from the heatsink altogether, and maybe relocating it to some other place where it can still do some good.

I must say, I don't understand personally why the heatsink would be live like that though--the heatsink should ideally be dissipating HEAT, NOT ELECTRICITY.

Shame on you, Seasonic.

Becks · Post by **Becks** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:40 am

Well somehow my motherboard died and I sorta have a working computer again YAY.

Anyways I got a bunch of these NMB 120mm fans in the mail... don't really seem all that quiet.... @12v they're way too loud... @5v they're still pushing 35+CFM (guess feeling the air), the motor isn't making any noise except this clicking type noise. I don't know how to describe it. The sound of teh air is also a little audible.

I have an antec pp412x (400w ) wiht a 7v panaflo l1a that is fine... that fans pushing 12cfm around there? I'm not sure how I'm going to get this powersupply as quiet using a 120mm fan.

I dunno why i got this 120mm powersupply now heh. Is there any way I can get ~20CFM out of a 120mm fan?.... I don't think going below 5v is gonna be safe with a 120mm fan, I don't want it to not start up one day.

geordie · Post by **geordie** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:02 am

The Noiseblocker SX2 Pro BlackSilence fan is rated at 12dbA at 5v. I believe it pushes something like 25-30 cfm at this voltage. It's 64cfm at 12v.