Seasonic Rev.A3 Super series A-OK!

Post by **MikeC** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 1:30 pm

Many of you have been waiting for this news.

I received an early batch of Rev.A3s some weeks ago and found them to have an odd fan-ramp-up problem: When a high load was reduced, like if you had a heavy app going and then it completed, the fan would ramp up to a fairly high speed for no reason and then slowly go back down. This would be perceived as random up/down fan ramping by a power user multitasking with his PC. No good!

An hour ago, I received a second revised RevA3 batch, and after quickly playing with a Super Silencer 300, I can report that the fan controller in this PSU works pretty much as in the original (previous gen) SS300FS: Without a glitch!

It's running in the PSU thermal load box right now. The ambient temp is 24C.

At 200W load, it is drawing 244W from the AC. This puts efficiency at almost 82% -- the highest I've seen in any Seasonic, and on par with the Enermax Noisetaker sample I reviewed a couple months back.

The internal temp of the thermal box is currently 36C; the exhaust of the PSU is 38C, which is pretty low (the dif is what's important) -- but expected given the high efficiency.

Have not had a chance to hook up monitoring leads to the fan, but I would guess it is up from the default ~5V to maybe ~8V.

At 150W load, the fan seemed to be at ~5V or not much higher, and the temps were ~5C lower.

I can switch the load up/down between 65W and 200W without any immediate effect on the fan speed.

All the Super series are said to have the new fan control circuit.

So, based on this prelim investigation, I'm going to give the new Rev03 a clean bill of health. I will examine the 2 Tornado models and the 400W silencer as well and post a formal Rev A3 mini-review later. Check back here for more quick info.

And no, I do not know details of distribution on the Rev.A3; I am guessing it is already in the US.... but I cannot say for sure, will report if I get info.

Post by **Ralf Hutter** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 6:33 am

Yippee! The squeeky wheel gets the grease!

Consumer feedback at it's best.

Post by **MikeC** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:40 am

Just finished checking a Rev03 Super Tornado 300. It works very much like the first one I reviewed, but with a slightly higher default / start voltage. As with the Silencer, no fan misbehavior of any kind was observed. It is a very quiet PSU.

The fan HAS been changed -- it is now a Yate Loon medium speed 120mm -- like the one used in Fortron and Nexus models.

The efficiency, like the Silencer is at 80~82% at 150~250W, which suggests that Seasonic have improved (with production?) on these since the first batch of sample I reviewed.

bcat · Post by **bcat** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 9:07 am

Hi Mike

Thanks for the info.

I have a question about the 400w Silencer fan, if it is the same as the Super Red fan as was in the revA1 SS400?

I received a RMA SS400 A3 from Seasonic only about 2 weeks after you got the pre-production 1st batch of A3's. I am wondering if my A3 was from that first batch that you got, or if it's one of the new and improved models.

Short of setting up and running a stress test app on my box, which I have not done; I was thinking that a fan comparison might be an indicator.

I spoke to Seasonic after your initial review of the pre-prod units, I didn't reference you or SPCR but I was trying to find out if I had a unit like the first batch you received. I wasn't able to get much info, except Seasonic said they had no complaints about the A3's.

Probably the only way I will know for sure is to stress test the psu & pc with an app, Having no experience doing that I'm wondering is there anything in particular I should know, such as what app would be best for this, etc.

Thanks

Post by **MikeC** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 9:24 am

bcat --

Yes, it is the SuperRed 80mm. That does not seem to have chnged from the very first Silencer sample I received.

As to the unit you have, it sounds like it is not misbehaving in any way, right? Then why worry?!

AFAIK, the Seasonic fan controller issues never affected ALL the units and even the problem ones did not affect all users.

I guess what I am saying is, if ain't broke... and don worry, be happy

But if you really want to try and provoke a problem, the most obvious (and extreme) thing to do is run a CPU stress utility like CPUBurn or Prime95 for a while. Minimum 5 mins -- or as long as it takes for the CPU to get as hot as it will get -- and maybe ramp up the PSU fan. Then turn the stress test off. If the PSU fan ramps up audibly after the stress program is turned OFF, and then drops back down a minute or two later, then you have a problem PSU.

On the other hand, if you have one of the problem units, you'd be hearing this up/down ramp-up noise just from using normal CPU intensive programs like any video editing software, Photoshop filter operations, etc...

If you haven't heard any problems up to now, why should you care what you have? The misbehaving fan control circuit is about the only bad part of these PSUs. (true, they could have chosen a quieter fan, but...)

Wedge · Post by **Wedge** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:20 pm

MikeC and others,

You may have noticed I'm shopping for a PSU right now. I have always thought to try a Seasonic for my next build. Definitely will get a Fortron (or Fortron-based) if I can't find a Seasonic here in the states.

Is there a US vendor that sells these?

bcat · Post by **bcat** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 6:24 pm

MikeC

The A3 is not causing any problems so far and is quiet, but I've not really put any consistent load on the cpu. The box it is in is used for email, web access and other low load stuff.

The revA2 I had was the same way( quiet and consistent fan speed), it might have even been a good one. I didn't know the A2 problem was only with some units so I RMA'ed it thinking it was an inherent A2 problem and I just wasn't stressing it enough.

Oh well

Thanks for the stress test info, I'm gonna do that just to satisfy that it's good under load too.

Wedge:

Microcenter sells them in both retail stores & online. I got my A3 as an RMA direct from Seasonic, not sure if Microcenter has the A3's but the "Serial ATA Ready" box label seems to be the way to tell what rev is inside.

http://www.microcenter.com

Project · Post by **Project** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 10:36 pm

so would u say that the SS is on par with the noisetaker or is it better cause it only has one fan

RaNDoMMAI · Post by **RaNDoMMAI** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 7:36 am

Would the SS be better then the nexus 3000 now?

~RaNDoM

Post by **MikeC** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 8:34 am

RaNDoMMAI wrote:Would the SS be better then the nexus 3000 now?

When the Super series Seasonics were first reviewed -- before the fan controller inconsistencies showed up -- they were at the very top of the lists. Not only were they quieter than the others but also much more efficient (and cooler). Now, because they appear to have increased the default / start voltage to ensure fan constency, they are very slightly noiser than before, so the difference in noise is not quite as big.

I'd still put them at the top, along with the Enermax Noisetaker series. The efficiency of these PSUs puts them in a different class than the rest. Neither have the best fans... NONE of the PSUs really have great fans, I have to say, just some are more acceptable than others. I get the impression that the Noisetaker fans are clickier than the Seasonics' in normal operation (ie, low speed) but the Seasonics's SuperRed fan is a bit whinier when spinning fast.

The Nexus 3000 is a previous gen. product; the efficiency is in the low 70s %. It's quiet at lower loads (mostly) but does heat up a lot faster than the newer gen PSUs. The lists of Recommended PSUs will be changed.

Wedge · Post by **Wedge** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 8:57 am

MikeC wrote:The lists of Recommended PSUs will be changed.

Thanks, Mike. Your work is appreciated.

Also, is there any chance you still have some of those modded Seasonics?

Post by **MikeC** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 9:56 am

Wedge wrote:
MikeC wrote:The lists of Recommended PSUs will be changed.
Thanks, Mike. Your work is appreciated.

Also, is there any chance you still have some of those modded Seasonics?

Yes

email me please.

calam63 · Post by **calam63** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:50 pm

I just read this on seasonic's website here:
http://www.seasonicusa.com/support.rma.php

Technical Bulletin #2: Buzzing Fan Resolved
October 27, 2003
We are pleased to report that the buzzing fan issue in some early production samples of the Super Tornado 300 has been successfully resolved.

1. NONE of the current inventory in the US should have any fans with this buzzing / no-start problem. Less than 2% of the first production run was afflicted.

2. After a small initial number of warranty returns for this issue, including some units incorrectly diagnosed by the customer, the individual units were replaced or repaired, entirely at our cost for US and Canadian customers. We have not seen any new incident reports in the past 10 days.

3. New Super Tornado 300, 350 and 400 models have been thoroughly checked to avoid any recurrence of this issue.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Technical Bulletin #1: Known Issue, No-start Buzzing Fan
Sept 15, 2003

Seasonic engineers investigated a few reports of fan noise anomalies in the new Super Tornado 300 power supply. The reported problem was described as the fan not spinning up and making a humming or buzzing noise upon startup, despite the PC booting up into normal operation. The problem has been identified, and a solution is being implemented immediately.

1. A few of the fans in the first production run of the Super Tornado 300 are slightly out of spec for startup voltage and do not start consistently with the default voltage fed to the fan upon power up.

2. The abnormal humming / buzzing noise is caused by the fan charging magnetically below start-up voltage. This noise is exhibited by only a very few fans.

3. This problem will show up in only about 2% of the first production run. So far, fewer than 10 cases have been reported in Japan, Taiwan and the US.

We are implementing a complete solution immediately for US & Canadian customers:

1. The fan supplier has provided a revised version of the fan with reduced start-up voltage requirements. This fan will be used in all new production runs.

2. New shipments of Super Tornado 300 with the revised fan will arrive in the US shortly and all current inventory will be replaced with the new fan. There will be NO afflicted units in the supply chain by September 21, 2003.

3. We will expedite all returns with this problem with high priority. Please cite "No-start Buzzing Fan" in your communication with us. Thank you.

Quite interesting - seems that all suppliers should have the revisions - w00t go ss!

Post by **MikeC** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:01 pm

Actually, those statements seemed lead to Rev.A2, which did not really work. Note the dates of the statements. Some Rev.A2 units still exhibited weird fan controller problems.

This latest Rev.03 appears to be a completely new fan controller circuit, judging from what I see on the board itself. AFAIK, it is not more than a wekk or two in the distribution pipeline.

This still does not mean that any Rev.A2 or an earlier Rev.A3 will exhibit the problem. The bottom line is that if you don't hear it, chances are you unit is not afflicted. It always only seemed to afflict a small percentage anyway... Of course it's always the problems you hear about.

akaidiot · Post by **akaidiot** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:16 pm

MikeC wrote:
Wedge wrote:
MikeC wrote:The lists of Recommended PSUs will be changed.
Thanks, Mike. Your work is appreciated.

Also, is there any chance you still have some of those modded Seasonics?
Yes email me please.

How many do you have? Are you selling?

Post by **MikeC** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:23 pm

nifti wrote:How many do you have? Are you selling?

Don't know exactly, haven't done a count, a handful, anyway. Email me.

calam63 · Post by **calam63** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 3:08 pm

oh ok - sorry thought it just coincided nicely with the a3's hehe - hmm would this be quieter? or a one of yours mike?

RaNDoMMAI · Post by **RaNDoMMAI** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 3:12 pm

So MikeC

Would the new SS A3 version modded with a 80mm panaflo M1A be the best then?

~RaNDoM

acaurora · Post by **acaurora** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 6:11 pm

Project wrote:so would u say that the SS is on par with the noisetaker or is it better cause it only has one fan

/me coughs loudly *SUCKS*.

I had a noisetaker 425, and, by comparison, my A3 runs WAY better. and believe me, i mean, WAY better, both power-wise and noise-wise.

Check out pretty pics @ http://home.comcast.net/~acaurora/pics/default.htm

Xspringe · Post by **Xspringe** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:50 am

MikeC, since you seem to have used both the rev A3 Super Silencer, Rev 3 Super Tornado and the Enermax Noisetaker: which PSU would be the best for silent computing?

I will most likely be purchasing a 300/325 watt model and will not be putting an awful lot of strain on the PSU (A64 3000+, Matrox G450, 2x Samsung 120gb sata, 1x DVD player).

Thanks!

Post by **MikeC** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 7:54 am

For quiet, one fan is better than 2... If you can keep the fan from ramping up (by keeping the case cool enough and/or ducting the CPU heat straight out), then the Tornado or Silencer are very close.

But in general, bottom-mounted fan PSUs tend to draw more heat from their environment (usually right over the CPU) and thus heat the internals more & which then means the fan ramps up faster.

When they're spinning fast, the 120mm fan probably is a friendlier sound than the 80mm fan ; less high pitched and more lower frequency hum -- but I would not like to have either noise.

So it depends.

I'd personally go for a Silencer 300/350, make a PSU intake duct and remove the back wire grill. Those wire grills block more airflow that you'd think... especially important when you don't have much to start with.

Xspringe · Post by **Xspringe** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 8:02 am

MikeC wrote:For quiet, one fan is better than 2... If you can keep the fan from ramping up (by keeping the case cool enough and/or ducting the CPU heat straight out), then the Tornado or Silencer are very close.

But in general, bottom-mounted fan PSUs tend to draw more heat from their environment (usually right over the CPU) and thus heat the internals more & which then means the fan ramps up faster.

When they're spinning fast, the 120mm fan probably is a friendlier sound than the 80mm fan ; less high pitched and more lower frequency hum -- but I would not like to have either noise.

So it depends.

I'd personally go for a Silencer 300/350, make a PSU intake duct and remove the back wire grill. Those wire grills block more airflow that you'd think... especially important when you don't have much to start with.

Thanks a lot for your swift and informative reply. Now if only I could find a dutch store carrying the Seasonics...

acaurora · Post by **acaurora** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 8:12 am

You could just go to www.excaliberpc.com... they sell the A3s. That's where I got my 460W from, and it's SWEET

Xspringe · Post by **Xspringe** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 8:17 am

acaurora wrote:You could just go to www.excaliberpc.com... they sell the A3s. That's where I got my 460W from, and it's SWEET

Thanks for the information acaurora. Oversea shipping is not really an option for me though, too much hassle with shipping and customs.

justlnluck · Post by **justlnluck** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 9:07 pm

Acaurora, do your PSU fans produce a whine as MikeC describes?

Post by **MikeC** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 7:17 am

In case you didn't notice, the Rev.03 Revisited.

acaurora · Post by **acaurora** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 7:52 am

Ok, this is worrying me. After reading the A3 Revisited, mine doesn't have the addons that are mentioned in the review. My box DOES have the SATA ready sticker on the box, but not the PCI Express ready one, nor does it have the 24 to 20 pin ATX adapter, as well as the 2x12V plug connected to the 12V line.

Grrr... is this some mishap? Am I being ripped off? *prepares to RMA and call Seasonic...

acaurora · Post by **acaurora** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 7:53 am

justlnluck wrote:Acaurora, do your PSU fans produce a whine as MikeC describes?

I don't hear a whine... even when it's at high loads. I hear more of a woooosh than a whine.

Post by **MikeC** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 7:58 am

acaurora --

You must read more carefully... from the article, quoting Seasonic:

...only the Super Silencer 400 and 460, and the Super Tornado 400 will be upgraded. These upgraded models should be in the US retail marketplace by the end of June.

In other words, the PCI Express-ready higher power versions are not in the market yet. And I don't think you have any grounds to demand an exchange -- every product maker "reserves the right to made modifications to specifications without notice" in the name of continuous improvements.

acaurora · Post by **acaurora** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 8:02 am

So... that means something like an A3v2?!

GAH. -_-;; Yah I was in the middle of talking with Stella from Seasonic... she was like...basically... "wtf are you talking about?!".

MikeC wrote: And I don't think you have any grounds to demand an exchange -- every product maker "reserves the right to made modifications to specifications without notice" in the name of continuous improvements.

Yes yes, I know. -.- Bah, oh well. I figure by the time PCI Express comes out, and I actually have a USE for it, I'll just get another one

O btw I got those Wiss tin snips... omg makes cutting out grilles SO much easier than nibblers -_-;;

Seasonic Rev.A3 Super series A-OK!

Seasonic Rev.A3 Super series A-OK!

revA3 400w Silencer fan?