new FSP Green Power with 85% efficiency

PSUs: The source of DC power for all components in the PC & often a big noise source.

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Tamas
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new FSP Green Power with 85% efficiency

Post by Tamas » Fri Feb 18, 2005 12:27 am

I found a new version of FSP on their webpage. High efficiency with low noise sounds good, and the FSP brand also means availability+good price in Europe unlike Seasonic.

FSP Green Power:

• High Efficiency exceeds 85% (at full load)
• Low power consumption on standby (<1W)
• Under 30dBA Low Noise Design
• Active PFC Circuit
• PCI Express Connector for graphic cards

Image

link to the webpage:
http://www.fsp-group.com/retail_product/greenpower.asp

Anybody tried this PSU or have any information about it?

Mats
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Post by Mats » Fri Feb 18, 2005 12:37 am

They are even giving a more realistic number for noise, under 30 dBA, Well we'll see about that... :?
Funny that it's the highest one I ever seen on low noise PSU's and still (or because of that) I believe it the most.

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Post by Tamas » Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:22 am

Mats wrote:They are even giving a more realistic number for noise, under 30 dBA, Well we'll see about that... :?
Funny that it's the highest one I ever seen on low noise PSU's and still (or because of that) I believe it the most.
I assume that if a Nexus gives you 16-19dBA it means the minimum noise at power supply idle state with maximum 60W DC power load.

This 30dBA maybe means maximum noise at full load.

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Post by Tobias » Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:36 am

Tamas wrote: I assume that if a Nexus gives you 16-19dBA it means the minimum noise at power supply idle state with maximum 60W DC power load.

This 30dBA maybe means maximum noise at full load.
If you read for exampel the review on nexus 4090 you'll see that the best it will do noicewise is 21dbA at those loads you specified and it will run louder than 30dbA at powerdraws of 200W.

So if 30dbA is the noice at maximum att full load it is a rather powerfull statement. If it is as Mats believed a measurement of the noice at the lower range of the powerspectrum it is a very honest rating. I have not checked every PSU-review, but <30dbA is not very bad (okey, it exceeds SPCR standards, but at least it's honest), as measured by MikeC.

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Post by Tamas » Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:52 am

Tobias wrote:
Tamas wrote: I assume that if a Nexus gives you 16-19dBA it means the minimum noise at power supply idle state with maximum 60W DC power load.

This 30dBA maybe means maximum noise at full load.
If you read for exampel the review on nexus 4090 you'll see that the best it will do noicewise is 21dbA at those loads you specified and it will run louder than 30dbA at powerdraws of 200W.

So if 30dbA is the noice at maximum att full load it is a rather powerfull statement. If it is as Mats believed a measurement of the noice at the lower range of the powerspectrum it is a very honest rating. I have not checked every PSU-review, but <30dbA is not very bad (okey, it exceeds SPCR standards, but at least it's honest), as measured by MikeC.
-It's difficult to compare noise measurements while the enviroments, distances are different. It's just informative. 30dBA at FSP or 19dBA at Nexus not equal with an SPCR 19-30 dBA data.
-It's hard to measure under 21dBA if the conditions are not enough good. A quiet not silent room also have a noise floor, and this make influence on the final results.

So we can only compare exact noise measurements when SPCR review this PSU with the same conditions what they used at Nexus/Seasonic etc..
Last edited by Tamas on Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Mats » Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:53 am

Yeah I don't think that it's 30 dBA at max load. Actually those numbers don't mean anything until tested as usual. I'm more into PSU's with a 80 mm fan now, and I'm thinking about Seasonic 460 W. I could use a more low power model, but they are not available in Sweden.

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Post by dan » Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:13 am

so where can i buy one? newegg?

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Post by Trip » Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:13 am

Ask fspgroupusa

Take a look at this: Zens (Fanless) 87%

EDIT: Calmer --> Zens (I dunno where I got "Calmer" from...)
Last edited by Trip on Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by DyJohnnY » Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:20 am

think FSP, fortron, sparkle and Aopen are the same things as long as teh model numbers ar the same...
i can't wait to see a review and also what seasonic can come up with. the 350W model is tempting :)

also found a distribututor in russia, so damn "close" to me :)
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Post by Tamas » Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:42 am

One thing is sure high efficiency is a key feature to make a quiet PSU, because power supplies adjust fan voltages/RPMs as the temperature changes. High efficiency reduces heat produced in the PSU.....

If that 85% efficiency is true at maximum load it's possible to make a very quiet PSU.
Just a short calculation:

Nexus NX-4090 at 300W DC power has 75% efficiency draws 399W AC power -> produces approximately 99W heat with 38dBA cooling.

(assume FSP Green Power efficiency is not constant at the full power range, 85% only available at 400W)

FSP Green Power at 300W DC power has approx. 83% efficiency draws 365W AC power -> produces approx. 65W heat with ???dBA cooling.
If we convert 65W to a Nexus fan controller, noise would be around 32dBA.

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Post by SometimesWarrior » Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:45 am

The unbleached, unlaminated cardboard packaging calls out to my tree-hugging inner self. Too bad they didn't make the PSU out of cardboard as well, that would have been interesting and easily recyclable.

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Post by Green Shoes » Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:59 pm

Too bad they didn't make the PSU out of cardboard as well
It'd be just a little too ironic to have a PSU made out of cardboard for environmental purposes when it's drawing 400W :wink:

Seriously, though, I'd love to see some specs if anyone gets one 'o these.

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Post by Bitter Jitter » Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:18 pm

I noticed these on the site a few weeks ago, it certainly makes an interesting start for a quiet PSU.

'Green' is the theme at the moment for me, what with my dissertation / thesis being titled.
How are computers impacting on the environment from their creation to their obsolescence?

After my inital proposal it becomes clear that the biggest costs are manufacturing.
A 17" CRT monitor uses enough raw materials in weight as that of a small car!
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Post by Bruce Ballslap » Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:42 pm

Bitter Jitter wrote:A 17" CRT monitor uses enough raw materials in weight as that of a small car!
That is mind blowing..

I guess LCDs' manufacturing is totally different in this sense?

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Post by Bitter Jitter » Fri Feb 18, 2005 3:45 pm

Bruce Ballslap wrote:I guess LCDs' manufacturing is totally different in this sense?


You are correct, they take alot less to make and consume around half to two-third's the power less than an equivalent CRT during there life time of use. The only bad thing about them is the mercury used in the backlight which makes recycling difficult.

Here is an article in computer weekly which evaluates a UN university report "Computers and the Environment: Understanding and Managing their Impacts"
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Post by NeilBlanchard » Fri Feb 18, 2005 7:40 pm

Hello:

I e-mailed FSP and they said that the Green Power is not available in the USA yet, but they would notify me when it is.

info@fspgroupusa.com

The specs do say 30dBA max, btw.
Sincerely, Neil
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Post by MikeC » Fri Feb 18, 2005 7:53 pm

NeilBlanchard wrote:I e-mailed FSP and they said that the Green Power is not available in the USA yet, but they would notify me when it is.

info@fspgroupusa.com

The specs do say 30dBA max, btw.
My contact there said a couple months ago that they did not think it would be introduced to the US or Canada right now. They're probably more concerned about delivering the >600W PSUs that powernuts are clamoring for.
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Post by NeilBlanchard » Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:13 pm

Hello Mike:

But, it might just help them speed things up, if they get a coupla' dozen e-mails from eager SPCR forummers! :P I also asked them to check out this thread, and linked to it...
Sincerely, Neil
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Post by Tamas » Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:29 pm

Enviroment saving -> I found this article about FSP Green Power on a Russian partner website. (It's translated to English with computer.)

New power units Fsp350-60gln, Fsp400-60gln bear name Green Power. The idea of this product lies in the fact that, anticipating the requirements of the European community on environmental protection with respect to the producers, to propose the already today finished solution. Retaining the high share of the European market for power units, FSP Group she became company- producer, that conducts the modernization of its production for the purpose of the correspondence to standards and to the world standards of environmental protection. The new power unit completely justifies its name "Green Power". Company declares, that this power unit is absolutely harmless for the environment, since only ecologically clean materials are used for the production. To the necessary minimum is brought the application of such heavy metals as cadmium (CD), lead (Pb), mercury (Hg) and chromium OF THE VI (Cr (THE VI)). Power units Green Power are characterized by ecological design; by minimum noise level and the pulsation (less than 30dBA); by low energy consumption with the high EFFICIENCY, which reach by 85% with the full load (65% for the devices of this class).

I think this is the reason why it's introduced in Europe.

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Post by Trip » Sat Feb 19, 2005 9:20 pm

I wonder if one could be sent back for recycling/proper disposal...

I would pay a few extra bucks for a more eco friendly PSU, but I dunno if enough Americans would. Organic and a few otherwise eco friendly products do pop up here and there though.

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Post by powergyoza » Sun Feb 20, 2005 10:58 pm

I'm gonna be a devil's advocate here and suggest that we may be disappointed if/when SPCR reviews it.

Why? I'm almost certain that 85% is achieved on 220VAC. SPCR tests on 120VAC and that PSU would certainly loose 2% just because of the voltage in North America. That mean's it likely achieves 83% efficiency @ max load.

Still likely the best out there for a fanned PSU, but not by much. Each extra % in efficiency @ 300W DC means "only" a savings of 3W AC at the plug.
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Post by Tamas » Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:33 am

powergyoza wrote:I'm gonna be a devil's advocate here and suggest that we may be disappointed if/when SPCR reviews it.

Why? I'm almost certain that 85% is achieved on 220VAC. SPCR tests on 120VAC and that PSU would certainly loose 2% just because of the voltage in North America. That mean's it likely achieves 83% efficiency @ max load.

Still likely the best out there for a fanned PSU, but not by much. Each extra % in efficiency @ 300W DC means "only" a savings of 3W AC at the plug.
-They said it exceeds 85% (at full load).
-At 300W DC 1 percent increase in efficinecy not means 3W saving.
300W DC - 75% eff. -> approx. 400W AC power.
300W DC - 80% eff. -> approx. 375W AC power.
1 percent far not equal with 3W AC power.

And if you look at the improvement its not just a couple of watts. A 1-2 year old FSP provided just 65-70% efficiency. A fan controller is very sensitive 2-3% 5-15W additional heat produced in the PSU really does matter. This 85% leads to more quieter power supplies.

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Post by Jan Kivar » Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:28 am

Tamas wrote:Low power consumption on standby (<1W)
What does this mean? Normally the computer uses little power even if the computer is turned off (+5VSB rail). I haven't measured it, but it's more than 1W.

Or does it mean that in "standby" the PSU circuitry uses <1W to generate the necessary power for the +5VSB rail?

Cheers,

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Post by MikeC » Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:38 am

powergyoza wrote:I'm gonna be a devil's advocate here and suggest that we may be disappointed if/when SPCR reviews it.

Why? I'm almost certain that 85% is achieved on 220VAC. SPCR tests on 120VAC and that PSU would certainly loose 2% just because of the voltage in North America. That mean's it likely achieves 83% efficiency @ max load.

Still likely the best out there for a fanned PSU, but not by much. Each extra % in efficiency @ 300W DC means "only" a savings of 3W AC at the plug.
Agreed. Most of the efficiency gains are incremental, it's true. Going from 80% up to 83% is a marginal change at <200W loads.

But if you look at the big picture over a 3 year period, we've seen high perf. PSU efficiency move from ~70% to well above 80%. That is a big deal, not as much for electricity savings as for reduced heat generation inside a PC case. It is most useful to think of in revers -- 30% heat generation vs <20% heat generation! This is significant for PC silencing, without a doubt.
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Post by Bitter Jitter » Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:31 pm

Jan Kivar wrote:What does this mean? Normally the computer uses little power even if the computer is turned off (+5VSB rail). I haven't measured it, but it's more than 1W.
I believe the average for standby is around 8w for other PSU's, i think this is on top of the +5VSB rail.
My meter measures 18w when my computer is shut down or in standby mode. Unless the meter isn't measuring properly?
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Post by niels007 » Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:07 pm

I'm in the market for a new PSU and the 350W model should be pretty good! (perhaps after a Nexus / Yate loon mod)

So are they available yet? I've browsed through a few Dutch online stores and haven't come across one GreenPower model yet.. :(

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Post by Bitter Jitter » Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:02 pm

Give it a few weeks and i'm sure Fortron will have these to market.

Interestingly the specs on the UK site says:
• Under 25dBA low noise design
The global site says:
• Under 30dBA low noise design

I guess they thought us Brits will believe anything! :lol:
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Post by StarfishChris » Mon Mar 28, 2005 5:06 pm

British air is sparser and absorbs sound more effectively.
It's coming back

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Post by Bitter Jitter » Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:36 am

StarfishChris wrote:British air is sparser and absorbs sound more effectively.
Is that a fact? So there is an upside to living here after all!! :lol:
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Post by StarfishChris » Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:23 am

If only :roll:
It's coming back

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