Qtec PSU 500W Big Fan (13981) - Your Thoughts Please

DeeLondon · Post by **DeeLondon** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:31 am

I built my own PC a few years ago an AMD XP 1800+

It has 4 Hard drives in it - but they're all pretty silent and 3 are in caddies that can be turned off.

I've virtually silenced the CPU fan

I'm finding the PSU is very loud with two fans in it and I often just use my laptop simply because It's silent, but my laptop isn't very powerful

So I figure best thing to do is invest in a new PSU

The PSU I have at the moment is this one

http://www.qtec.info/products/product.htm?artnr=13494

The one I'm thinking of getting is

http://www.qtec.info/products/product.htm?artnr=13981

Which is also speed controlled by tempreture so it only spins faster when the temp goes up.

Any thoughts? Do you think the 2nd one will be much quieter?

I think the dual fans and high RPM's of my current PSU also makes the case vibrate a lot so I'm hoping a single fan unit that spins slower will make a big difference

Also anyone know what the Decibe range is with this PSU? it just says under 26 db doesn't say what the minimum is.

CX23882-19 · Post by **CX23882-19** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 1:42 am

Q-Tec PSUs are not quiet. A Nexus NX-4090 at full fan speed is quieter than the Q-Tec Big Fan range at idle.

teejay · Post by **teejay** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 2:07 am

It's so much easier to advice you on what to buy when we know where you are located on the globe, roughly. You can fill that out under the "location" field in your profile. For instance, the latest king-of-quiet is supposedly the Seasonic S12 series, with the possible exception of the models rated above 430W. But then, Seasonics might be hard or even impossible to purchase where you live. Similarly, the Nexus NX-4090 is a good choice for your current system but it can be expensive where you live... perhaps even too expensive considering the fact that it is a unit that follows a now-replaced standard: ATX1.3 IIRC whereas more modern units support ATX2.0x and ATX12V, that come with things like a 24pins motherboard connector.

In my experience, Q-Tec is a somewhat budget-oriented brand: their products are not really bad, but better can be had, sometimes for a small premium only. Budget PSUs often come with noisy fans, bad fan control and low efficiency (a lot of heat) so I'd seriously consider another brand. Since your rig comes nowhere near that Q-Tec's 500W rating, an S12-330W would be a good (and quiet) choice, presumably without costing much more. Fortron is another brand that has some followers around here.

Oh, have you read the power supply fundamentals & recommendations?

merlyn · Post by **merlyn** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:00 am

QTec psu's are appalling. Their ratings are based on peak power instead of max and noise levels are complete fiction. they're about as cheap and nasty as you can get. personnally i'm surprised they're allowed to sell them.

Aleksi · Post by **Aleksi** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:17 am

Merlyn, you actually said everything I was going to post... They don't really have the best reputation, lets put it that way.

DeeLondon · Post by **DeeLondon** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:32 am

teejay wrote:It's so much easier to advice you on what to buy when we know where you are located on the globe, roughly. You can fill that out under the "location" field in your profile.

Hi,

I live in London, England

What's confusing is the issue of Watts - everyone seems to have a different method displaying this info to the customer...

I have device I can plug into the main and then plug my PC into that tells you how many watts it's using - is that a good guide to hudge how many watts I need? or is this peak rating to take account of peaks when things first start spinning, etc?

The QTec I have now has worked perfectly for 2 years or so - it's purly to reduce noise and Vibration I want to do something ...

I found a webpage somewhere that had some downloadable MP3's of recordings of different PSU's in operation. The Nexus was by far the quietess of all the recordings.

sthayashi · Post by **sthayashi** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:56 am

DeeLondon wrote:I have device I can plug into the main and then plug my PC into that tells you how many watts it's using - is that a good guide to hudge how many watts I need? or is this peak rating to take account of peaks when things first start spinning, etc?

This device probably tells you how many AC watts you're using. Does the reading change as you're using the computer at all? That should tell you whether its measuring peak or actual power. It's not an entirely accurate device for determing PC power draw, as it includes the power supply input. The power supply's rated power should be for the output, not the input. So assuming that meter is displaying actual power and not just peak power and it reads 200W, assuming you have an 80% efficient power supply (an optimistic assumption if it's an older Q-Tec), then your computer draws 160W, and you'd want a power supply that can at least handle that.

As for you measuring device, I have a few questions. What is it? Where'd you get it and how much did it cost?

We have several of these devices in the US, but every now and then, I've come across requests on UK or EU equivalents, and I usually don't know what to tell people.

DeeLondon · Post by **DeeLondon** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:27 am

It's called an Energy Monitor from Lidl in the UK

DeeLondon · Post by **DeeLondon** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:39 pm

People don't seem to like Qtec - all I can say is the 450 Watt Dual Fan one I've had installed for about 2 years has worked fine, but the one review I could find on the Big Fan model seems to suggest it isn't very quiet and I really need to make this machine a bit more silent.

What About this Nexus Model? - it's rated at 300 Watts - is that powerful enough for my needs?

http://www.nexustek.nl/nx3000.htm

AMD Athlon 1800+
4 HD's - 2 x 7200rpm 2 x 5400 rpm
1 DVD Writer
Gigabyte GA-7VAXP Ultra Motherboard
TV Card
PCI to PCMCIA Adpator
Matrox G400
Sound Blaster Live 5.1 with Live Drive
2 x 256 MB RAM DDR
2 Extra Internal Fans

http://www.giga-byte.com/MotherBoard/Pr ... 0Ultra.htm

If the 300 Watts Nexus isn't enough I see Nexus do a 400 Watts of similar design although a few decibels louder according to the site.

I do already use my PC with a UPS so that helps I guess clean the incoming power supply somewhat.

teejay · Post by **teejay** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:54 pm

Both the Nexus NX-3000 and the NX-4000 (which I assume you are referring to since you state it is "of similar design") are reviewed here. There were good PSUs a while back, but they have since been surpassed (the NX-4000 even by Nexus' own successor, the NX-4090, which incidentally already has been recommended twice to you in this thread).

If you are looking to spend as little cash as possible and you can get a really good deal on the Nexus NX-x000 units, I'd recommend those over a Q-Tec unit any day. The 300 watt version should be enough for your setup. However - I am starting to repeat myself here - there are better units available nowadays. Check the recommended section I linked before.

fjf · Post by **fjf** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 10:27 am

You can get seasonic PSUs in the UK: http://www.koolnquiet.co.uk/

Or nexus sent from nl: http://www.silentpcshop.nl/index.php?pnr=04&ctg=37

Regards

chorlya · Post by **chorlya** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:20 pm

I have a Q-Tec BigFan 400W and it's original fan is real crap. I replaced it with some CoolerMaster 13dBA fan and its much, much better now as far as noise goes. I can still hear it, but only if I stop all other fans.

I don't know how fast its spinning, but judging from the speed of the output air, its much slower then the original fan. The air that comes out is still not warm, I'd say its like room temperature, or very close.
But also note that my case is open since I don't have any silent exhaust fans.
By experimenting I found out that keeping the case open is the best setup for me at the moment. This is very much due to low air throughput of above mentioned CoolerMaster fan. It doesn't manage to get the hot air away from CPU (my case is very small so CPU cooler is just 1-2cm below PSU) fast enough so CPU temp starts raising. I guess that one silent exhaust fan would push enough of air out to enable me to keep the case closed but I have no fans at the moment so I can't really try it.

But anyway, if you can get a better PSU I'd skip Q-Tec. But if you find your self stuck with one of these, simple fan swap will do pretty good job I'd say.

DeeLondon · Post by **DeeLondon** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 10:30 pm

There's a computer fair near my house on Sunday, so may go there on the weekend and see what the various vendors have to offer.

I had a look at some of the Nexus reviews including the 400 watts black one with orange fan and wanted to check how many power sockets does it have?

ATM I need 5 x 12 volt conectors for 4 HD's and a DVD Writer and 2 of the kind that plug into a floppy drive as my Sound Blaster front Panel requires power as well as my floppy drive.

Also what do people think of AOPEN PSU's? The PC I built for a friend used an AOPEN Case that came with it's own PSU and it's so amazingly quiet and my sister is still using an AOPEN k6-2 Motherboard with 1mb of 2nd level cache that still runs perfectly, so I kind of associate AOPEN stuff as being very good.

teejay · Post by **teejay** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:57 am

In my experience, Aopen PSU's are middle-of-the-road jobs: not too bad, not exceptionally good. However, there is quite a bit of variance between their products so I'd check the specific PSU model before actually getting one. The example of your sisters PC does not prove anything about general AOpen quality or reliability IMO... but I guess that is the way brand loyalty is built

Check the reviews for the Nexus PSU, it contains a detailed picture of the connectors which makes it easy to count them. The NX-4090 does not have enough connectors for your need: when I swapped my Zalman ZM400A for the Nexus, the NX-4090 had exactly the number of connectors I needed with none to spare... and that is with 2 hdd's only that used the SATA power connectors, not the regular molex connectors.

I'd seriously consider an ATX12V 2.01 compliant PSU like the Seasonics that are available from Kool 'n Quiet (link as posted by fjf a few posts back): much more future-proof.

DeeLondon · Post by **DeeLondon** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 2:54 am

Thanks for the suggestions - off into central London today so will have a look around.

I'm not too worried about future proofing as this machine is as fully loaded as it's gonna get (except may a more powerful processor at some point) and if I need a new machine I'll build one from scratch - it's more then likely however my next PC will be a laptop.

Aleksi · Post by **Aleksi** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 3:08 am

About AOpen PSUs:

They were and shoud still be just rebadged Fortrons. Fortron => Nexus, Zalman, AOpen etc...

halcyon · Post by **halcyon** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:30 am

To re-iterate: QTec has PSUs that have been deemed unsafe for sale. Also, quite a few posts can be found on Finnish forums about Q-Tech PSUs blowing up, burning mobo/other components as they do.

I'm having a hard time remembering a PSU manufacturer (or is it rebadged, I dont' know) that is quite as bad as Q-Tec.

Don't confuse with Quiet Techonology, who make (or at least used to make) good quality PSUs.

DeeLondon · Post by **DeeLondon** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:12 am

We were ordering a laptop online for my cousin and saw the store also sells Tagans - I wanted the 380W model but they were out of stock so got the Tagan TG330-U01 330 Watt one - which provides Active APC and 18 Amps on the 12Volt line which is more then by 450 Watt Qtec.

Laptop and PSU expect by Tuesday Morning

So what do you think? A good choice?

Aleksi · Post by **Aleksi** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:25 am

Hi,

Well, IMO not the best choice. The Tagan TG330-U01 model was caught by TUKES (finnish safety technology authority) with a bad transformer design / implementation. The breaktrough voltage between the transformer coils happened at 1800V instead of the supposed 3000V. It is still listed as a not safe product. "Not immediate danger, however it has low security level". The finnish importer was advised to remove the product from the market and all bought units could be returned for a full refund. You can find info about this specific unit if you use the SPCR search.

However, I don't know if they have made modifications to this unit. If I were you, I would still try to change it for a differen unit.

CX23882-19 · Post by **CX23882-19** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:49 am

Novatech sell Nexus stuff in the UK, that's where I've bought all mine from (PSUs, fans, Damp-Tek etc.)

DeeLondon · Post by **DeeLondon** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:12 am

Aleksi wrote:Hi,

Well, IMO not the best choice. The Tagan TG330-U01 model was caught by TUKES (finnish safety technology authority) with a bad transformer design / implementation. The breaktrough voltage between the transformer coils happened at 1800V instead of the supposed 3000V. It is still listed as a not safe product. "Not immediate danger, however it has low security level". The finnish importer was advised to remove the product from the market and all bought units could be returned for a full refund. You can find info about this specific unit if you use the SPCR search.

However, I don't know if they have made modifications to this unit. If I were you, I would still try to change it for a differen unit.

I did a very quick search before buying and couldn't find anything bad at the time said about the unitbut we only has 15 minutes to order everythingto ensure te laptop got here on time for next week, what exactly does breaktrough voltage mean?

I found the thread below - it's 2 years old now so I'm assume Tagan have either modified the PSU or there hasn't been enough problems with it to warrant taking it off the shelves for the last 2 years.

http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewto ... an+finnish

I assume that this device must be safe? And from what people seem to be posting on here several steps up from my Qtec 450W Dual Fan PSU?

The pics on this page certainly suggest it's much better quality product then the Qtec I currently have

http://www.tagan.co.kr/tg_01.php

Aleksi · Post by **Aleksi** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:37 am

Hi Dee,

as you probably know, the Tagan 330W has NEMKO, FIMKO, DEMKO etc.. safety approvals. So it should be a safe power supply and the design should be OK.

As I stated in one post (in the Tagan / Bequiet threads. Tagan and BeQuiet are both made by Topower and especially the BeQuiets had problems when it came out) this could well be a case of a bad component batch they had. As these units are still sold in other countries, it may prove my guess is correct.

Now, the thing that bothers, is that the Tagan is still on the list. So it is still NOT allowed to sell them in Finland. So that would let me think it's still not safe. BUT, I'm guessing the only situation where you would notice this problem with the coils, would be in a malfunction situation. Breakthrough voltage means the voltage level where electricity jumps from one coil to the other.

I have just learned to trust and give value to opinions this finnish authority (called TUKES) through my work also. Their list of bad PSUs is like the "who's who of crappy PSUs".

In the end it's your call. My opinion would be to change it if possible. If you want to / have to keep and this thing bothers, you could always contact TUKES or Tagan and ask about this specific problem. They have info, I have guesses.

DeeLondon · Post by **DeeLondon** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:41 pm

I've emailed Tagan and pointed them to this forum and told them it's in their own best interest to read it and respond, I've done more searching tonight on the web and still can't find any Tagan Horror stories.

Their website is a little weird in that you can't download the specs, etc easily - ech one is a 50mb RAR file contain postscript files, etc instead of a simple PDF that would be about 200 times smaller as well. So maybe Tagan know a bout about making power supplies but ain't got a clue about website design.

BTW How many other manufacturers offer 3 year warranties on their PSU's? ... I noticed most still only back theirs up with a 1 year warranty.

Aleksi · Post by **Aleksi** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:19 pm

Dee,

I'm really sorry, this is going to be a low blow

: How many of the three year warranty PSUs have their warranty stickers cut when you buy them?

Ok ok, but seriously, I too would really like to see Tagan or Topower respond here. I also looked for Tagan problems from the internet but couldn't really find anything. I also just sent mail to TUKES and asked about this subject. I'll post here when they respond.

DeeLondon · Post by **DeeLondon** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:35 pm

Aleksi wrote:Dee,

I'm really sorry, this is going to be a low blow : How many of the three year warranty PSUs have their warranty stickers cut when you buy them? .

Huh??

Are you saying when my Tagan arrives I need to check to see if there is a sticker that has been removed?

Aleksi · Post by **Aleksi** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:00 pm

Hi Dee,

there have been reports of cut warranty stickers in north America and Europe also. Don't know what the current situation, but I guess it won't hurt to check it. These cases have been discussed at SPCR also, so use the search and you'll find user posts about this problem.

I've always made clear that I somewhat dislike Topower made PSUs. Most of this is because of the user experiences at finnish hardware forum Muropaketti. Too many faulty units that ended up frying people computers. However, we also have users here at SPCR who are totally happy with Tagan and BeQuiet PSUs.

If it works, good. When these units are OK (don't exhibit any problems from the beginning) they usually have had happy owners. But I'm hoping TUKES will reply me by next week.

DeeLondon · Post by **DeeLondon** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 12:18 am

Oh OK, not speaking Finnish I don't have the benefit of those forums, although I'm hoping the problems are from a few years ago now??

Anything I can do to test the PSU before risking frying my PC?

I also want to take some kind of measurements if possible to compare QTec I have now Vs the Tagan, any software I can try that will give me something to measure against? once I've installed the new PSU I can take new readings and compare the two.

Aleksi · Post by **Aleksi** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:03 am

Haven't visited those forums much recently (SPCR is the only place I go these days), but If I remember correctly, I recall seeing posts about problems with these PSUs late last year. I know that the SPCR user "Halcyon" (posted in this thread) should have some info on these units, as he should be an active member of Muropaketti also. I will send him a PM and ask to comment in this thread.

Testing the PSU: Well, there is no sure way of knowing what a PSU will do when plugged in. Starting the PSU without any bigger load doesn't really indicate how it will function in normal use.

If you want to test the PSUs, one option that comes to mind is to measure the voltage lines with a multimeter while idle and when under load. That should give some idea how the unit is handling your setup. But in the end, that's all it does. You can't really try to "simulate" or guess on results when a PSU will malfunction.

Hmm... Maybe I'm a bit too critical in my opinions. I just wouldn't personally use neither Tagans or BeQuiets. However, OCZ power supplies are also made by Topower and those units shouldn't have had too many worries, correct?

halcyon · Post by **halcyon** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:25 am

DeeLondon,

there's no software you can use to measure the quality of your PSU.

All software based measurements are more or less misleading (because they measure OFF the motherboard and not directly from the PSU).

As such, I recommend you look at real load testing using proper test methodology (like SPCR tests).

Also, I'm afraid that Aleksi is probably right on Tagan 330W PSU.

The unit's design/construction does not pass minimum safety specs nor loading requirements.

It will probably work and may not necessarily be a hazard, but under Finnish national electricity professionals standard methodology it does not cut the mustard, so to speak. Hence, it is deemed "not fit for sale, although not posing an immediate hazard to the user".

Tagan TG330-U01 is still on the list of electrical goods that are not allowed to be sold in Finland (due to not passing national safety tests).

As such, if you are within your return period, I'd seriously consider returning it.

BTW, the thread / info detailing this is from Nov 2004 (less than 6 months old). I'd be very surprised if the information has reached Tagan and they have cleared all the bad units off the sales channel (from all retailers). Possible, but unlikely, imho.

Possible alternatives are (IMHO) several: Seasonic, new FSP models, Greenerger or any of the PSUs from the SPCR recommended PSUs list:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article28-page6.html

regards,
halcyon

PS On the issue of safety I've come to respect 3rd party indepedent standardized laboratory results more than manufacturer propaganda (which is mostly spun by the marketing department, who has no understanding of engineering most of the time).

EricTerminator · Post by **EricTerminator** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:54 pm

Hi all !

I've got this PSU, and I have to admit that it's noisy. The voltages are average, not good nor bad, and the efficiency is probably average or low.

But it's a good way to have a silent PSU, if you have the right stuff and know-how to modify and upgrade it

: http://www.pcsilencieux.com/sujet-t2672.html

Here you can see my work on this PSU, and it's really deadly quiet now.

If you don't understand French, which is probably the case, just remind that I cut the metal casing and put an thermoregulated quiet 80mm fan, that I exchanged the original fan (not necessary at all, but it's good to have a blue LED

), and undervolted it ; it's running now at 5V. Also keep in mind that the fan grill isn't necessary, so remove it.

See you