Fanless PSU in Watercooled system?

PSUs: The source of DC power for all components in the PC & often a big noise source.

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Uberapan
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Post by Uberapan » Thu May 19, 2005 8:12 am

ATWindsor wrote: The GPU-cooler om the resirator supposedly is very weak, maybe the extra cooling on the core itself helped?
I think the problem was with the memory. I tried Doom3 with it without the fan, and I had severe artifacts (dancing white pixels) that went away with the fan. That kind of artifacting seems like a memory malfunction to me.

The Reserator GPU waterblock gets bashed a lot, but it is still A LOT better than the stock cooler for the GPU itself.

ATWindsor
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Post by ATWindsor » Thu May 19, 2005 8:15 am

Uberapan wrote:
ATWindsor wrote: The GPU-cooler om the resirator supposedly is very weak, maybe the extra cooling on the core itself helped?
I think the problem was with the memory. I tried Doom3 with it without the fan, and I had severe artifacts (dancing white pixels) that went away with the fan. That kind of artifacting seems like a memory malfunction to me.

The Reserator GPU waterblock gets bashed a lot, but it is still A LOT better than the stock cooler for the GPU itself.
Abit of an unrelated question, did your reserator start making noise after some weeks (the pump) is saw someone complaining about that in here, and I wondered if it was a general problem. As I have drooled on the reserator as the ultimate quiet solution som time I go pretty scared by that news :(

AtW

nici
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Post by nici » Thu May 19, 2005 8:27 am

Mine is still in fine shape, ive had it for 6 months and its been on 24/7 for about 5 months with short breaks for tweaking. You may encounter problems if you only use distilled water without any additive though. Use Propylene Glycol or something meant for PC watercooling. Yesterday i moved the pump out of the reserator, now it is completely silent. It vibrates clearly but makes no sound. I also added a piece of tubing to the inlet of the Res, this seems to have dropped temperatures a few degrees :) There is a fitting there, so its just a matter of putting a piece of the included tubing in place before you fill it up.


I did notice that when i moved form air-coooling to the reserator with the zalman GPU block, i had to reduce the overclock on the 9800Pro. I had the Zalman ZM80C-HP heatpipe-cooler on it before, with a fan lying flat on the upper heatsink. It was hardly ideal, but it still cooled better than the zalman waterblock. The zalman waterblock is however sufficient for a standard card, but not so great for OCing.

ATWindsor
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Post by ATWindsor » Thu May 19, 2005 9:22 am

nici wrote:Mine is still in fine shape, ive had it for 6 months and its been on 24/7 for about 5 months with short breaks for tweaking. You may encounter problems if you only use distilled water without any additive though. Use Propylene Glycol or something meant for PC watercooling. Yesterday i moved the pump out of the reserator, now it is completely silent. It vibrates clearly but makes no sound. I also added a piece of tubing to the inlet of the Res, this seems to have dropped temperatures a few degrees :) There is a fitting there, so its just a matter of putting a piece of the included tubing in place before you fill it up.


I did notice that when i moved form air-coooling to the reserator with the zalman GPU block, i had to reduce the overclock on the 9800Pro. I had the Zalman ZM80C-HP heatpipe-cooler on it before, with a fan lying flat on the upper heatsink. It was hardly ideal, but it still cooled better than the zalman waterblock. The zalman waterblock is however sufficient for a standard card, but not so great for OCing.
THanks, thats reassuring info, I really would like to get a resarator, bur can you explain this sentence a bit more detailed:

"I also added a piece of tubing to the inlet of the Res, this seems to have dropped temperatures a few degrees :) There is a fitting there, so its just a matter of putting a piece of the included tubing in place before you fill it up. "

I didn't quite understand what you ment.

AtW

Uberapan
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Post by Uberapan » Thu May 19, 2005 12:35 pm

ATWindsor wrote: Abit of an unrelated question, did your reserator start making noise after some weeks (the pump) is saw someone complaining about that in here, and I wondered if it was a general problem. As I have drooled on the reserator as the ultimate quiet solution som time I go pretty scared by that news :(
Yes, my reserator started rattling after around 6 months. I used pure distilled water without additives, and that might be it I guess. However, after I replaced the pump, I opened it up to examine if there was any residue or organic material, and there was none. It was completely clean. So I'm not sure what could be the cause of this rattle. Has this been determined yet?

ATWindsor
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Post by ATWindsor » Thu May 19, 2005 12:37 pm

Uberapan wrote:
ATWindsor wrote: Abit of an unrelated question, did your reserator start making noise after some weeks (the pump) is saw someone complaining about that in here, and I wondered if it was a general problem. As I have drooled on the reserator as the ultimate quiet solution som time I go pretty scared by that news :(
Yes, my reserator started rattling after around 6 months. I used pure distilled water without additives, and that might be it I guess. However, after I replaced the pump, I opened it up to examine if there was any residue or organic material, and there was none. It was completely clean. So I'm not sure what could be the cause of this rattle. Has this been determined yet?
Hmm, not good, is the pump easily replacable? (does zalman provide a replacement or did you get a sperate one?).

AtW

nici
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Post by nici » Thu May 19, 2005 12:56 pm

I believe acauorora did get his pump replaced by zalman. I think the problem with just distilled water is that it is too "dry" so the pump wont get any lubrication and then wear out..

What i meant with that sentence was this, that blue fitting is there as standard but there is no tube. I made the tube about half the height of the Res to the water gets mixed quite well.


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ATWindsor
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Post by ATWindsor » Thu May 19, 2005 1:02 pm

nici wrote:I believe acauorora did get his pump replaced by zalman. I think the problem with just distilled water is that it is too "dry" so the pump wont get any lubrication and then wear out..
Ok, best to have that in mind, I can always hope they fixed the problem when they released the edition with the new and improved flow-indicator

Intersting mod btw, I'm alway confuse with watercooling as things I don't find logical work (like your mod). Isn't cold water heavier than warm? (and thus at the bottom)

AtW

nici
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Post by nici » Thu May 19, 2005 1:32 pm

Maybe i wasnt clear enough, the warm water comes into the Res thru that pipe and prevents the warm water from getting sucked back into the loop too quickly :) Without the tube the inlet and outlet are so close it is very likely that the pump sucks in warmer water, this way the water should have more time to cool off in the reserator.

Btw when i made the pump external i ahd to cut the power-cord to get it out and solder it back together.. I also removed the power-switch since the computer is on 24/7 so theres no need to turn it off and theres a smaller chance ill turn it off by mistake. I removed the flow-indicator too, since the comp is on 24/7 theres probably a 1/5 chance that ill be on the computer if the pump fails... I enabled emergency shut-off for cpu in the bios, so if the pump fails the cpu will rise above normal and the comp will shut down.

Btw this is how my system looks like today, ill post it in the gallery tomorrow with more pictures and information :) The tubing is 3/8" silicone tubing, and the green color is because of Swiftech HydrX additive :) I like silicone tubing because its very easy to work with. I know my case is ugly, the aluminium tape actually served a purpose once but now its only there because its so freaking difficult to remove... Ill have to get a better looking case. This setup is so quiet i cant here it even half a meter away, i can only hear the ventilation of the house and that annoys me as theres nothing i can do about it :x The ventilation is certainly not loud, but its the only source of noise so after a while in my room it gets very noticeable..

Click here for bigger picture

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Last edited by nici on Thu May 19, 2005 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ATWindsor
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Post by ATWindsor » Thu May 19, 2005 1:35 pm

nici wrote:Maybe i wasnt clear enough, the warm water comes into the Res thru that pipe and prevents the warm water from getting sucked back into the loop too quickly :) Without the tube the inlet and outlet are so close it is very likely that the pump sucks in warmer water, this way the water should have more time to cool off in the reserator.

Btw when i made the pump external i ahd to cut the power-cord to get it out and solder it back together.. I also removed the power-switch since the computer is on 24/7 so theres no need to turn it off and theres a smaller chance ill turn it off by mistake. I removed the flow-indicator too, since the comp is on 24/7 theres probably a 1/5 chance that ill be on the computer if the pump fails... I enabled emergency shut-off for cpu in the bios, so if the pump fails the cpu will rise above normal and the comp will shut down.
Ah, ok, now I'm with you (why did you make the pump external btw?)

AtW

nici
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Post by nici » Thu May 19, 2005 1:47 pm

I moved it outside because the vibration from it got amplified slightly by the reserator so it became audible. By the time i noticed that, my system was already pretty damn quiet. The mod required an "inline adapter" wich cost about 10€, pictures below.

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Uberapan
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Post by Uberapan » Fri May 20, 2005 12:09 am

ATWindsor wrote: Hmm, not good, is the pump easily replacable? (does zalman provide a replacement or did you get a sperate one?).
I replaced mine with an external DDC pump, not from Zalman. I'm from Sweden, and getting a replacement here involves contacting Zalman in Korea. After waiting two weeks for them to answer a simple email asking what the problem could be (the rattling problem) I realized I would never ever get a replacement from them in a reasonable amount of time.

Edit: My Reserator came with the metal flow indicator, so the rattling problem has not been fixed in that edition.

ATWindsor
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Post by ATWindsor » Fri May 20, 2005 1:24 am

Uberapan wrote:
ATWindsor wrote: Hmm, not good, is the pump easily replacable? (does zalman provide a replacement or did you get a sperate one?).
I replaced mine with an external DDC pump, not from Zalman. I'm from Sweden, and getting a replacement here involves contacting Zalman in Korea. After waiting two weeks for them to answer a simple email asking what the problem could be (the rattling problem) I realized I would never ever get a replacement from them in a reasonable amount of time.

Edit: My Reserator came with the metal flow indicator, so the rattling problem has not been fixed in that edition.
Ok, but an external pump works reasonably well (besides the hassle and extra price), it's quiet and has good performance and all that?

AtW

nici
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Post by nici » Fri May 20, 2005 4:05 am

If the pump itself is quiet, then yes it will be quiet externally, where the pump is located doesnt really affect performance. The pump included is a EHEIM Compact 300, and it costs about 10€ in germany, its is very,very quiet and totally adequate for cooling my system with very good temps. 5 months 24/7 running and still no sign of any funny noises.. Ill be shure to report them if they do appear :)

An Eheim 1046 would cost about 30€, and if this one brakes thats what ill get most likely. The Reserator is designed as a low-flow system, so it doesnt benefit much from a more powerful pump unless you decide to use some very restrictive waterblocks. The included cpu-block works very well and looks good, so i see no reason to replace that..


Uberapan--> did you use any additives in the coolant or just distilled water?

Uberapan
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Post by Uberapan » Fri May 20, 2005 11:20 am

As I said above, I used only distilled water. When I opened the pump up though, I couldn't find anything wrong with it, at all.

Qwertyiopisme
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Post by Qwertyiopisme » Fri May 20, 2005 11:36 am

ddrueding1 wrote:Fanless PSUs require a system with good airflow (ie: Fans). It's stupid, but quite true. Fanless PSUs really aren't fanless, they just make you buy and install your own elsewhere.

If you wanted to run a Phantom fanlessly, the only way you might be able to is to mount some waterblocks to the outside of the PSU to evacuate the heat.
I think that as long as the main heat-outputting things are watercooled (cpu, graphics card, maybe your nb and harddisks, maybe even your mosfets), that it wont have any problem.
Quite incorrect. The PSU is the second or third hottest component in your system (depending on your video card). Keep in mind that even with the most efficient power supplies out there the PSU is putting out 20%+ of the heat, and is one of the parts that needs to be kept the coolest (behind the HDDs).

Running a system completely fanlessly is not a very good idea. Keep in mind that EVERY component that electricity is flowing through is generating heat in the process. Most of these aren't a big deal, but many are. The ones that would certainly need direct cooling are:

CPU
GPU
HDD
PSU
NB
SB (if you have one)
VRM
MOFSETS

And with no airflow through the case, who knows what other chips would fry? RAM? Onboard RAID controllers? Not worth it IMO when suspened Nexus 120s @ 5v are so cheap and so quiet.
But, seeing as how this system is not typical, in that all the main heat making components only radiate their heat once they are outside of the case, the psu will get much cooler air, instead of getting air that has already been warmed up by 100W of heat, it gets ambient air, which is so much better that you could maybe run fanless, but I would have a large, low speed fan anyway, becuase is doesnt give any noticable noise increase and the airspeed is much higher.

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