Hi guys, here's my current specs:
Pentium 4 3.06GHz w/ HT (81 watts maximal)
Asus P4PE Deluxe Mobo (i845 chipset)
1GB PC3200 Corsair XMS @ 333MHz (2 x 512MB)
Geforce4 Ti4400 w/ Zalman Passive Cooling
2 x 180GB IBM 180GXP HDD's @ 7200rpm / 8MB cache
(both suspended in NoVibes III)
1 241040A PlexWriter CD-Burner
1 Lite-On 165H (16X DVD drive)
All powered by:
1 400 Watt Seasonic PSU modded w/ Panaflo 80mm L1A (usually at 5 volts, depends on PSU's opinion of what it needs (thermister controlled)). Very low airflow.
Can anyone tell me if this is a possible problem? Should I perhaps use a better-cooled PSU, or replace the fan inside my Seasonic with something more powerful? I have a lot of M-series 80mm ADDA's laying around.
Also, what's your opinion on Seasonic's build-quality. I'm not talking about how solid it feels, etc. I'm talking about the electronics. Voltage regulation. Efficiency, quality of the capacitors, etc. I've seen the review, but would appreciate any more comments here.
If you were to buy a new PSU for my aforementioned rig, which would you buy?
Pentium 4 3.06GHz w/ Hyperthreading based system
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee, Devonavar
Hi John, I'm just astounded by the specifications of your (to me) killer system, I'm sure you'll have lots of fun with it.
Regarding your PSU question, I think a Seasonic 400 watts will do just fine, I guess you could always take a look at Antec's offerings, but I doubt they would be equal in terms of noise. If no-one else here thinks otherwise, I'd say you will not run into any problems using your aforementioned PSU.
About modding: Try different setups out, see what works, and what does not. After you've found a 'level' of modding which you are comfortable with at running 24/7, use it. Trial and error is the key phrase here I believe. Good luck, and happy modding!
Regarding your PSU question, I think a Seasonic 400 watts will do just fine, I guess you could always take a look at Antec's offerings, but I doubt they would be equal in terms of noise. If no-one else here thinks otherwise, I'd say you will not run into any problems using your aforementioned PSU.
About modding: Try different setups out, see what works, and what does not. After you've found a 'level' of modding which you are comfortable with at running 24/7, use it. Trial and error is the key phrase here I believe. Good luck, and happy modding!
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MikeC
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Seasonic w/ Panaflo 80mm"L" -- this is something I do on a couple of my systems.
The question really is: Will the low airflow of the Panaflo at ~5V or less and its slow ramp up as load increases allow the PSU to be stable and reliable enough to hold up safely in your powerful system?
From the power rating POV, there should be no issue. The Seasonics I've tried are all very good.
The air that comes out of them (and any 5V Panaflo modded PSUs) is much hotter than with the standard fan. The stock Adda fan in the Seasonic is rated for ~38 cfm, in comparison to the Panaflo's 24 cfm. This may lead to reduced life & reliability, no question.
There are 2 things you could do to improve this without increasing noise much.
1) Stop the component heat from getting into the PSU, let the PSU deal with just cooling itself. The preheated case air that goes into the PSU have a lot to do with how hot the PSU gets in the typical quiet PC. If you can get fresh air to the intake vents on the PSU, and keep the heat of the other components out, the slow Panaflo should have no problem keeping the PSU cool.
How? (assuming a tower case) Isolate the top portion from the rest of the case. Insert a barrier between the top edge of the motherboard and the bottom of the PSU -- all across the width and depth of the case. I've tried posterboard, which is easy to work with. Preferably, leave the top 5.25" bay free so that this becomes the main air intake for the PSU fan. The cables from the PSU have to be routed through a hole in the barrier to reach below. The seal between top/bottom does not have to be really tight.
Some noise will come out the front of the case if the 5.25" cover is left off altogether. Line the inside top of the case and other surfaces in the intake air path to the PSU with some soft, dense foam and devise some kind of channel so the direct sound doesn't get straight out, yet the airflow is not blocked at the 5.25" intake.
All this might mean the CPU and other components in the lower chamber get hotter. If so, use a low speed quiet exhaust fan on the back panel -- preferably as big as it can get. I have been playing with 120mm fans and even though they are not as quiet as a Panaflo 80mm even at <5V, the noise they make is all lower freq, which is easy to damp with decouple mounting -- and difficult to hear because of our natural deficiency in that freq range.
I am sure I don't have to remind you about getting rid of all unnecessary airflow impedances (such as grills).
or
2) Use a fan with higher airflow than the Panaflo, but hopefully not much louder -- 30-32 cfm, maybe?
The question really is: Will the low airflow of the Panaflo at ~5V or less and its slow ramp up as load increases allow the PSU to be stable and reliable enough to hold up safely in your powerful system?
From the power rating POV, there should be no issue. The Seasonics I've tried are all very good.
The air that comes out of them (and any 5V Panaflo modded PSUs) is much hotter than with the standard fan. The stock Adda fan in the Seasonic is rated for ~38 cfm, in comparison to the Panaflo's 24 cfm. This may lead to reduced life & reliability, no question.
There are 2 things you could do to improve this without increasing noise much.
1) Stop the component heat from getting into the PSU, let the PSU deal with just cooling itself. The preheated case air that goes into the PSU have a lot to do with how hot the PSU gets in the typical quiet PC. If you can get fresh air to the intake vents on the PSU, and keep the heat of the other components out, the slow Panaflo should have no problem keeping the PSU cool.
How? (assuming a tower case) Isolate the top portion from the rest of the case. Insert a barrier between the top edge of the motherboard and the bottom of the PSU -- all across the width and depth of the case. I've tried posterboard, which is easy to work with. Preferably, leave the top 5.25" bay free so that this becomes the main air intake for the PSU fan. The cables from the PSU have to be routed through a hole in the barrier to reach below. The seal between top/bottom does not have to be really tight.
Some noise will come out the front of the case if the 5.25" cover is left off altogether. Line the inside top of the case and other surfaces in the intake air path to the PSU with some soft, dense foam and devise some kind of channel so the direct sound doesn't get straight out, yet the airflow is not blocked at the 5.25" intake.
All this might mean the CPU and other components in the lower chamber get hotter. If so, use a low speed quiet exhaust fan on the back panel -- preferably as big as it can get. I have been playing with 120mm fans and even though they are not as quiet as a Panaflo 80mm even at <5V, the noise they make is all lower freq, which is easy to damp with decouple mounting -- and difficult to hear because of our natural deficiency in that freq range.
I am sure I don't have to remind you about getting rid of all unnecessary airflow impedances (such as grills).
or
2) Use a fan with higher airflow than the Panaflo, but hopefully not much louder -- 30-32 cfm, maybe?
Hey JohnMK,
Would you be able to post your P4 temperatures (idle and load) and your system (case) temperatures? I would definitely like to know this info because, like your case, I too have a "low-airflow" system and I am looking to install a ZM80A-HP (fanless heatsink) on my Ti4600 card. Thanks in advance!
Would you be able to post your P4 temperatures (idle and load) and your system (case) temperatures? I would definitely like to know this info because, like your case, I too have a "low-airflow" system and I am looking to install a ZM80A-HP (fanless heatsink) on my Ti4600 card. Thanks in advance!
i have two questions about ur system. I think its awesome but why did u get
1.The plextor, as it is twice the price and of liteon burners and liteon burners seem to be ruling the market right now as the best all around burners.
2. IBM harddrives? were u going for pure volume? From what ive read the fastest ide harddrives are western digital and the quietest ones are baracudas. not to meantion there has been alot of bad press about IBM harddrives overheating.
oh, and why hasnt anyone mentioned the Nexus psu to him?
1.The plextor, as it is twice the price and of liteon burners and liteon burners seem to be ruling the market right now as the best all around burners.
2. IBM harddrives? were u going for pure volume? From what ive read the fastest ide harddrives are western digital and the quietest ones are baracudas. not to meantion there has been alot of bad press about IBM harddrives overheating.
oh, and why hasnt anyone mentioned the Nexus psu to him?
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ez2remember
- Friend of SPCR
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- Location: London, UK
Yes that was the case before where Western Digital HD with 8mb cache was faster than IBM. But the IBM 180GXP 2mb cache is just slightly faster than any offerings from current Western Digital 8mb cache drives, but they are quite insepereable in terms of performance. The 8mb IBM cache version is faster than any WD drive has to offer. Cureent reviews from many sources will confirm this.GamingGod wrote:
2. IBM harddrives? were u going for pure volume? From what ive read the fastest ide harddrives are western digital and the quietest ones are baracudas. not to meantion there has been alot of bad press about IBM harddrives overheating.
The IBM 180GXP is a mega performer with the fastest access times and eqaul or better transfer rates than WD.
Under load temperatures never exceed about 53C when the room is warm and I'm specifically targetting full, 100% w/ hyperthreading load, i.e. two instances of seti@home. Typical under-load is about 47C. Idle temperatures? I don't really recall. Somewhere around 35-42 or so, maybe?
Why Plex? I bought it a year ago, and their C2 error pointers are supposedly pretty trustworthy, as is their ability to self-correct audio misreads.
Why IBM? Immeasurably as fast as WD drives, and significantly quieter. Barracuda's are too slow and too small.
Ez2remember: The WD drive still has a very slight edge over its IBM counterpart, in performance. But, as I said, it's so much louder I wouldn't ever consider it.
Why Plex? I bought it a year ago, and their C2 error pointers are supposedly pretty trustworthy, as is their ability to self-correct audio misreads.
Why IBM? Immeasurably as fast as WD drives, and significantly quieter. Barracuda's are too slow and too small.
Ez2remember: The WD drive still has a very slight edge over its IBM counterpart, in performance. But, as I said, it's so much louder I wouldn't ever consider it.
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John,
I am in the process of building a system that closely matches yours (unless the Granite Bay motherboards come onstream in the next week or so - I won't wait long for them because they are testing only marginally faster than the 845PE and don't OC as well). I will probably go with the Seasonic, but there is one concern I have that would certainly preclude me modding it for lower airflow - the draw a system like this places on the+12v rail. My specs indicate a a peak potential draw of about 15 amps or so on this rail, which does not leave a lot of headroom, and could drive the psu hard enough under high stress running (e.g. gaming) to require the full cooling power of the standard fan. Most psu reviews (including the ones here) tend to oversimplify their discussions of power demands - to use an analogy, it's not just total calories that count; the body needs specific amounts of protein, carbohydrates, and fat. Excess demands for 12v power can't be met from other rails to "make up" the difference. Current P4 cpus take their power from the +12v rail, unlike (I believe) Athlons, and there are some high-wattage psus out there that only provide a max of 12 amps or so on this rail which could be inadequate. Allowing for a bit of OCing I would say you would want 8 amps just for the P4 cpu - then there are several other draws on this rail as well; mobo, fans, CD/DVDs, and (especially) those 2 big HDs.
The only other quiet psu that I have seen that could easily meet these power requirements is the very pricey (250 CDN) Ultra-Quiet 460 watt unit from Quietpc.ca (I think it is the big brother to the QT 300 watt unit tested at this site). I am going to use the forum to see if others have checked this one out.
From your specs, it seems you have gone with stock cooling - I am waiting to see if the new Intel cooler/fan combo for the 3.06 is as effective and quiet as a Swiftech MCX-4000 with a quiet, Asus Q-power modulated fan. How are you finding it? Your CPU temps seem pretty high - little room there for any OCing. An upgrade there could reduce worries about higher in-case temps brought about by the psu isolation mods Mike has suggested. The Lian-Li I am planning on using has a top blowhole; if your case does as well you can use that as an air input for the psu, perhaps even with a very quiet fan to draw air into the case.
A few other comments on your build: As far as the HDs go, the most rigorous testing out there (see Storagerieview.com) indicates these 8 meg cache drives are not quite as fast as the WD 8meg cache models, but they are a lot quieter (yipee!). I have also read that IBM drives do very well in RAID 0 arrays, which is the way I am going. IBM reliability issues seem a thing of the increasingly distant past - they were directed at the GXP 75 series. The 180's do run hotter than any other IDE drive Storagereview has tested - do you have a fan blowing any air over them to keep the drives cool? You might want to check those temps if you do Mike's mods.
I too am going Plextor for CD-RW as they do a better job of backing up certain esoteric CD formats according to reviews I have seen, and are quieter. I will wait for the GeForce FX for my next video card upgrade- hopefully they will fix the noisy fan I have read about on the current prototype, or there will be a third party solution.
I am in the process of building a system that closely matches yours (unless the Granite Bay motherboards come onstream in the next week or so - I won't wait long for them because they are testing only marginally faster than the 845PE and don't OC as well). I will probably go with the Seasonic, but there is one concern I have that would certainly preclude me modding it for lower airflow - the draw a system like this places on the+12v rail. My specs indicate a a peak potential draw of about 15 amps or so on this rail, which does not leave a lot of headroom, and could drive the psu hard enough under high stress running (e.g. gaming) to require the full cooling power of the standard fan. Most psu reviews (including the ones here) tend to oversimplify their discussions of power demands - to use an analogy, it's not just total calories that count; the body needs specific amounts of protein, carbohydrates, and fat. Excess demands for 12v power can't be met from other rails to "make up" the difference. Current P4 cpus take their power from the +12v rail, unlike (I believe) Athlons, and there are some high-wattage psus out there that only provide a max of 12 amps or so on this rail which could be inadequate. Allowing for a bit of OCing I would say you would want 8 amps just for the P4 cpu - then there are several other draws on this rail as well; mobo, fans, CD/DVDs, and (especially) those 2 big HDs.
The only other quiet psu that I have seen that could easily meet these power requirements is the very pricey (250 CDN) Ultra-Quiet 460 watt unit from Quietpc.ca (I think it is the big brother to the QT 300 watt unit tested at this site). I am going to use the forum to see if others have checked this one out.
From your specs, it seems you have gone with stock cooling - I am waiting to see if the new Intel cooler/fan combo for the 3.06 is as effective and quiet as a Swiftech MCX-4000 with a quiet, Asus Q-power modulated fan. How are you finding it? Your CPU temps seem pretty high - little room there for any OCing. An upgrade there could reduce worries about higher in-case temps brought about by the psu isolation mods Mike has suggested. The Lian-Li I am planning on using has a top blowhole; if your case does as well you can use that as an air input for the psu, perhaps even with a very quiet fan to draw air into the case.
A few other comments on your build: As far as the HDs go, the most rigorous testing out there (see Storagerieview.com) indicates these 8 meg cache drives are not quite as fast as the WD 8meg cache models, but they are a lot quieter (yipee!). I have also read that IBM drives do very well in RAID 0 arrays, which is the way I am going. IBM reliability issues seem a thing of the increasingly distant past - they were directed at the GXP 75 series. The 180's do run hotter than any other IDE drive Storagereview has tested - do you have a fan blowing any air over them to keep the drives cool? You might want to check those temps if you do Mike's mods.
I too am going Plextor for CD-RW as they do a better job of backing up certain esoteric CD formats according to reviews I have seen, and are quieter. I will wait for the GeForce FX for my next video card upgrade- hopefully they will fix the noisy fan I have read about on the current prototype, or there will be a third party solution.
Re: Pentium 4 3.06GHz w/ Hyperthreading based system
Doesn't answer your question but:JohnMK wrote:Hi guys, here's my current specs:
1 241040A PlexWriter CD-Burner
1 Lite-On 165H (16X DVD drive)
I have heard that the Lite-On drives are not the quietest drives on the market. I have a Toshiba DVD drive which is very quiet when playing DVD's, although not so quiet when playing CD's (but which DVD drive is). I have also heard that the Panasonic models offer speed throttling software to keep the spinning speed of your drive down to reduce noise.
Destron
Re: .
Louder than I'd like it to be, but in my current domicile ambient noise is pretty difficult to eliminate. The CPU fan is typically spinning at 2700rpm, rarely will it nudge higher except under extraordinary duress.Herb W. wrote:John,
From your specs, it seems you have gone with stock cooling - I am waiting to see if the new Intel cooler/fan combo for the 3.06 is as effective and quiet as a Swiftech MCX-4000 with a quiet, Asus Q-power modulated fan. How are you finding it?
Ask me if I care.Your CPU temps seem pretty high - little room there for any OCing.
My PC-70 has something similar right above the PSU, but it's rear-side, not top-side. Room for two fans there.An upgrade there could reduce worries about higher in-case temps brought about by the psu isolation mods Mike has suggested. The Lian-Li I am planning on using has a top blowhole; if your case does as well you can use that as an air input for the psu, perhaps even with a very quiet fan to draw air into the case.
Nope. I'm not concerned, they're probably below spec'd maximum by a safe margin even while in NoVibes.do you have a fan blowing any air over them to keep the drives cool? You might want to check those temps if you do Mike's mods.
Lite-Ons are actually better at copying copy-protected discs. Lite-On DVD drives spin down to 1x or so while you're watching a DVD. They only spin at maximum speed when you're installing a program or ripping a DVD.I too am going Plextor for CD-RW as they do a better job of backing up certain esoteric CD formats according to reviews I have seen, and are quieter. I will wait for the GeForce FX for my next video card upgrade- hopefully they will fix the noisy fan I have read about on the current prototype, or there will be a third party solution.
Good luck.
