Antec NeoHE "High-Efficiency"

PSUs: The source of DC power for all components in the PC & often a big noise source.

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Devonavar
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Post by Devonavar » Tue Feb 14, 2006 12:43 pm

Rory Buszka wrote:I haven't heard of ANY Fortron PSU being problematic.
Do some digging on the FSP Zen. They have had problems with low powered systems because of minimum load requirements not being met. Sound familiar?

sonuvbob
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Post by sonuvbob » Tue Feb 14, 2006 12:44 pm

MikeC wrote:Show me one that has a good chance of being quiet -- our definition of quiet w/o umpteen mods.
My SmartPower 2.0 350W is all-but-silent, though its peak efficiency is a little lower than the NeoHE I think. I don't doubt that the fan would ramp up too soon in a hot system, but the rear fan's never even come on for me.

I realize it's already been reviewed, I'm just pointing out that the NeoHE isn't the only 80mm choice. :P

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Post by frankgehry » Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:01 pm

I haven't heard of any zen problems. Maybe spcr should add a postscript about them in the review.

On second thought, don't post a warning if you think they may stop providing samples.

And, would the zen problems be considered defects or incompatibilities, or would my computer be hosed with either interpretation?
Last edited by frankgehry on Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Aleksi » Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:28 pm

Mike / Devonavar,

frank's earlier post just brought up a thought. You mainly rely on the samples of different models provided by manufacturers.

Do you shy away from product samples given by affiliates for review consideration because they might expect a certain kind of a review in return?
[size=75]Just because I didn't respond to your post doesn't mean you were right. It just means I was speechless as to how to reply to such an idiotic statement

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Post by TomZ » Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:31 pm

Do you shy away from product samples given by affiliates for review consideration because they might expect a certain kind of a review in return?
This would also avoid the possibility of Mike being sent a "special" sample for review. Not that any manufacturer would do that....

It would be far better if the reviews were manufacturer-unauthorized, with samples obtained through normal retail channels. Perhaps folks on this forum could be asked for donations to help sponsor this.

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Post by Rory Buszka » Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:00 pm

Ok, the email to Nexus has been sent. Let's see if they listen to the consumer.

I'd like: the greater than 80% efficiency, a big open front intake grille, and big heatsinking that will let the power supply run passive when not under load, and a fan control circuit that won't spin up the fan until the heatsinks hit something like 40 degrees C. And a Yate Loon D80SL-12 fan. Detachable cables would be a plus.
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Post by MikeC » Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:04 pm

Aleksi wrote:Do you shy away from product samples given by affiliates for review consideration because they might expect a certain kind of a review in return?
"affiliates?" What do you mean by that?

There are direct advertisers -- most of whom have banners in fairly prominent places -- and then there are google-, vibrant media and Pricegrabber directed advertisers. The latter advertisers have no direct contact with us at all, it's all managed through the agent and they never volunteer review samples.

Stores have submitted samples in the past & we've had no problem with that. They usually get coop advertising dollars towards the sample from the mfg of the product, so it costs them nothing (or very little).

Basically, we'll take samples wherever we can get them as long as we think they are representative of the retail product, not some special tweaked or rare variant -- except if there is a truly compelling reason. We used to take on more preproduction products, but I've changed my policy about this -- no point unless the product is identical in every way to the one that will hit the streets. We have reviewed items we have bought from time to time, but not often; the cost become prohibitive quickly especially when you need multiple samples, as we often do to do a good job.
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Worker control
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problems with Biostar TForce 6100-939?

Post by Worker control » Sat Feb 18, 2006 1:28 pm

Anyone had P150 compatibility problems with a Biostar TForce 6100-939? I bought the board on Anandtech's recommendation -- the system is for non-gaming use, so I wanted onboard graphics for cost and power reasons. Aside from the PSU, the P150 case seems really great, with generally high quality. My only complaint with the case itself is that the intake filter seems a bit shoddy to me.

With only the mobo attached to the PSU, the system fails to boot, with the mobo indicating that the RAM is bad. With the CD drive also attached to the PSU, the PSU shuts down immediately after it starts to power up.

I guess I'm going to RMA the PSU to Antec, and ask for the actually working flavor of the PSU. The whole scenario is really really annoying.

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Gigabyte GA-K8N Pro-SLI or Abit KN8 SLI?

Post by aqm consultant » Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:59 pm

Bought a P150 (Neo HE S/N 0509xxxx) and was ready to build an x2 4800+ system on an Abit AN8 Ultra when that mobo disappeared from the market (AN8 SLI is now also showing "discontinued" on Abit website).

So....
Narrowed down to two passive NB boards - Gigabyte GA-K8N Pro-SLI and Abit KN8 SLI. Don't have any need for SLI, but can't seem to find the other stuff I want (Cool'n'Quiet, SATA-II RAID1, 4 DDR slots) elsewhere.

I found only one post listing the Gigabyte as problematic with the NeoHE, and none yet for the Abit KN8. Does anyone have knowledge of which of these might be least problematic? Reliable?
aqm consultant

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Post by Erssa » Sat Feb 18, 2006 5:25 pm

Rory Buszka wrote:Ok, the email to Nexus has been sent. Let's see if they listen to the consumer.

I'd like: the greater than 80% efficiency, a big open front intake grille, and big heatsinking that will let the power supply run passive when not under load, and a fan control circuit that won't spin up the fan until the heatsinks hit something like 40 degrees C. And a Yate Loon D80SL-12 fan. Detachable cables would be a plus.
What's wrong with Phantom? I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for this, if I were you. The semi-passive psu, that nexus currently has (nx-9003 SFB) is basically a joke.
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Re: What I heard from Antec tech support

Post by koitsu » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:39 am

koitsu wrote:So I've been using the S0511 in my PC (Asus P4C800 Deluxe -- an older P4 board, as many know, backed by a Radeon X800) for a few days now. I hadn't played any games with it until about 20 minutes ago. While playing Dungeon Siege 2 for about 20 minutes, my system completely shut off and my UPS kicked in stating that there was some kind-of short. My UPS is in good condition, no battery problems or otherwise.
I wanted to follow up in regards to my own reported issue shown above.

This issue isn't specific to gaming or running DS2 or anything else that requires more power. It just so happened that the first time the PSU decided to shut itself off, I was playing DS2.

Since then, the PSU has shut itself off an additional four (4) times; twice while I was sleeping (woken up by the UPS going off to find my PC shut off), once while I was at work remote desktopping into my home PC (doing nothing other than IMing friends), and once while downloading some files via wget.

The PSU freaking out appears to be completely random; I can't figure out what's causing it. My voltages (in the BIOS) appear almost dead-on (except for 12V, at 11.84, but that's within the flux range).

Sadly, I shipped that S0509 in to Antec to be repaired so it didn't suffer from the "Asus motherboard problem" (since I now have an A8N-E which I'm building -- no, it's not the one using the S0511), which is why I bought another NeoHE in the meantime (otherwise I'd have no PSU!).

I also took a moment to look at my S0511 to see if it had a broken warranty sticker (as many have reported): it sure does!

My S0511 will likely go back (to Amazon) once I receive my repaired S0509 (according to UPS, that's today). Let's hope Amazon accepts the return due to the warranty sticker being voided. Let's also hope my "repaired" S0509 doesn't freak out like the S0511 does. If it exhibits the same problem, it'll be my opinion that the "Asus motherboard problem" breaks compatibility with other non-A8N boards.

Antec still needs to come clean on what all of this is about -- both the Asus compatibility problem (please discuss electrical details -- do not schmooze us), and the torn warranty sticker problem (stickers are placed on the PSUs *after* they're assembled, which means they're either being disassembled and reassembled, OR, you're selling customers broken products which have been "repaired" (i.e. refurbished). So which is it?)

Being honest with your customers will allow you to keep + save face, not the other way around. Your market share won't drop any, as this issue hasn't hit the mainstream media (but eventually will if you keep hiding information). You have nothing to lose by admitting what's really going on. If there is one PR rep. or manager within your company who is telling you support folks to remain hush-hush, then I'd love to know their name so I can speak to them directly.


Customers who want alternatives are limited. See below:

Antec Phantom 500 -- lacks cable management, and I've read reports of it suffering from the same "Asus" problem as the NeoHE. Also, I owned the 350 at one point (sold it); during gaming sessions it'd get so hot you couldn't even touch it.

Nexus NX-5000 -- lacks cable management. My experiences with Nexus PSUs has been great except for their 120mm PSU fans: they have a history of becoming off-centre and begin emitting a loud plastic-on-plastic rubbing noise. I fixed mine by opening up the PSU, replacing the 120mm fan with another Nexus 120mm fan, soldering the contacts onto the PSU PCB, and voila. Sold this as well.

Seasonic S12 series -- lacks cable management. Otherwise, perfect.

Enermax Noisetaker -- Disgusted me when I tried one long ago (returned it). Felt shoddy in general... but the kicker was the loud fan (the noise appeared to be positionally-related; gravity's a bitch! ;-) ).

Enermax Liberty -- Looked great... until I saw how they did their SATA power cables; uh, no Enermax, I don't need BOTH TYPES on the same physical cable. How about cables for native SATA power connectors, and cables for 4-pin molex? I agree with Mike Chin's review comments here at Silent PC Review.

Asaka -- who? Also lack cable management.

So like I said, consumers aren't left with many choices for those who want cable management. It's Antec or bust.

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Re: Gigabyte GA-K8N Pro-SLI or Abit KN8 SLI?

Post by koitsu » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:51 am

aqm consultant wrote:Bought a P150 (Neo HE S/N 0509xxxx) and was ready to build an x2 4800+ system on an Abit AN8 Ultra when that mobo disappeared from the market (AN8 SLI is now also showing "discontinued" on Abit website).

So....
Narrowed down to two passive NB boards - Gigabyte GA-K8N Pro-SLI and Abit KN8 SLI. Don't have any need for SLI, but can't seem to find the other stuff I want (Cool'n'Quiet, SATA-II RAID1, 4 DDR slots) elsewhere.
You should look at the Asus A8N-E. It has the features you want, and uses the NF4 Ultra chipset (vs. the SLI chipset), since it lacks SLI.

Be aware of the loud chipset fan (on both v1.00 and v2.00 boards), though. I have quite a thread going over at Anandtech about it. Once all of my noise-solving components arrive, I can't wait to try out my first AMD system.

That thread: http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview ... erthread=y

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Post by koitsu » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:28 pm

Follow-up to my issue:

Received my RMA'd NeoHE 550. Antec did not simply repair my S0509, instead they actually sent me a brand new PSU. The box was shrink-wrapped, and the serial number on the PSU is S05110085525. Also worth noting: the warranty sticker is not torn or broken (and there is no glue residue as if a new one had been placed over the old, implying this is a new PSU).

I should note one thing (for those who do the RMA): when I sent Antec my PSU, I sent them literally everything -- original box, PSU with original shipping carton + paper wrap, and all of the original cables. Possibly this is why I got a new PSU instead of a repaired one like some people have.

So now I have two S0511 NeoHE 550s, one which randomly shuts off my PC or has a voltage problem of some sort, and one which is brand new from the Antec RMA and installed as of a few minutes ago.

I'll report back in 3-4 days to see if the new RMA'd PSU has the same problem as the S0511 I got from Amazon. *groan*

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Re: Gigabyte GA-K8N Pro-SLI or Abit KN8 SLI?

Post by aqm consultant » Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:40 pm

koitsu wrote:
aqm consultant wrote:Bought a P150 (Neo HE S/N 0509xxxx) and was ready to build an x2 4800+ system on an Abit AN8 Ultra when that mobo disappeared from the market (AN8 SLI is now also showing "discontinued" on Abit website).

So....
Narrowed down to two passive NB boards - Gigabyte GA-K8N Pro-SLI and Abit KN8 SLI. Don't have any need for SLI, but can't seem to find the other stuff I want (Cool'n'Quiet, SATA-II RAID1, 4 DDR slots) elsewhere.
You should look at the Asus A8N-E. It has the features you want, and uses the NF4 Ultra chipset (vs. the SLI chipset), since it lacks SLI.

Be aware of the loud chipset fan (on both v1.00 and v2.00 boards), though. I have quite a thread going over at Anandtech about it. Once all of my noise-solving components arrive, I can't wait to try out my first AMD system.

That thread: http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview ... erthread=y
Koitsu -- Thanks for the suggestion, however the main point was to find a passive NF4 MB. Your thread suggests that the passive solutions folks have attempted on the A8N-E are a bit dicey at best, and I think the A8N-E is on the list of problem boards for the Neo HE (hence the Abit and Gigabyte options, SLI and all, which are passive, but I worry a bit about the Gigabyte as the NB HS looks pretty minimal -- no heatpipe). Anyone have experience with either of the latter MBs??
aqm consultant

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Post by jcook_ksa » Fri Feb 24, 2006 7:32 am

I have a Gigabyte nForce4 4X system in an Antec P150 and I can only get it to boot about 90% of the time. The HeoHE 430 power supply bumps the fans and lights and then shuts down. I then have to cycle the power switch in the back to reset the power supply. I've moved power cables around, changed fan speeds, even added obsolete hardware to try and load the three 12V rails. Very disappointing.

Obviously, this problem affects more than just ASUS boards...

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Post by QO » Sat Feb 25, 2006 6:33 am

koitsu wrote:Follow-up to my issue:
Also worth noting: the warranty sticker is not torn or broken (and there is no glue residue as if a new one had been placed over the old, implying this is a new PSU).
Perhaps that is the key? S0511 (or later) with no torn sticker :)

I have one running in my new rig, but I've only played with it for a few short days. Zero probs so far though.

Edit: I have a S051100782XX

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External setup for the Neo HE 380W

Post by Doomer » Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:03 am

Well I finally bought this power supply, despite all the bad reputation it's been getting. So far I love it. It replaced a modded Truepower 430W that had been running for over two years with only minimal cooling. The fan doesen't seem to increase speed at all even under heavy load, thanks to this kind of setup:

Image

I'm running a pretty modest system(Intel 845PEBT2+P4 2.4Ghz/1Gb/Radeon 9700/1xSeagate Barracuda IV 80Gb/1xDVD/1xCD-drive). Serial number is the older 0509xxxx batch, no torn stickers.

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Post by klankymen » Mon Feb 27, 2006 2:08 am

BINGO!

I finally got my RMA for my A8N-SLI Prem from newegg, and first of all I'm pissed, because according to the instructions on their site i sent back the motherboard with all the components, including all sata cables and instruction, and I/O ports.

and what do the bastards send me back? just the OEM, just the board in a white box, nothing else!! I'm having some serious bad luck with my RMAs lately (i was sent back the same unworking NeoHE once accidentally).

But in any case, i found an old sATA cable, and the new motherboard does work.

And, whats more, the new NeoHE i have lying around here, not been able to test it, for lack of a motherboard, also works (i think)

It's a NeoHE 500 that I got as a replacement for a 430, because they messed up in my first RMA. S# is S0511..., and the seal is broken.

For testing I played about one minute of HL2 at 1440x1080 with effects turned up. i dunno if that was too short of a test period, it was kinda boring without sound. In any case my old one would die after 10 seconds of CoD2 at 1280x960, so I assume this is a higher load, since I've heard CoD2 isnt in fact so graphically advanced (at least my friend runs it on his fx5600).

I have to go for a longer testing session later today, but for now I'm pretty happy it's looking like it's working.

EDIT: I just played 15 minutes of NFSMW@1280, followed by another 15 minutes of HL2@1440, and not only does the PSU stay rock solid, the fan remains very quiet, I'm not even sure it ramped up, the air coming out is only mildly warm.

what i forgot to mention before is, I don't have the EZ-plug molex connector to the mobo for SLI plugged in, nor have I updated the BIOS of the motherboard since getting it (today :D) its a 1.02, but I dont know the bios of the top of my head, i'll edit it in. EDIT: its a 1009
Last edited by klankymen on Sat Mar 25, 2006 4:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by HiFi » Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:04 pm

i really want to get the P150 but I want to know if antec has done anything to fix all the bad PSU?

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Post by Keyz316 » Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:02 pm

HiFi --

It seems that they have, albeit not in an ideal manner. I've been reading on the SPCR forums all evening and have decided it's a pretty safe bet at this point (either you'll get one that's already fixed, or if not, a BIOS upgrade may work, and if not, Antec will replace it with a new one). I've read several reports that the suggested fix(s) or the replacement PSU did the trick for those people. Obviously not the best situation, but it seems to be nearing the end. In my situation, I already have ordered my P150, and want to base my system around an Asus A8N-SLI Premium which I'm about to order..... if it works, then great... if not, then I have a few spare (unfortunately loud) PSUs to use while the situation is worked out.

I'm personally going to go ahead with the Asus A8N-SLI Premium and cross my fingers. I shouldn't have to upset my component choices over a PSU glitch :)

Good luck.
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Post by AntecRep » Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:43 am

This summary’s objective is to clear up any confusion pertaining to Antec’s NeoHE power supply series compatibility issues that have come up, as well as some other points.
Customer satisfaction is an extremely high priority for us, and we are fully prepared to help our customers in any way that we can. Our customer support technicians are standing by, and are happy to help anyone who may be experiencing difficulties with an Antec PSU. The NeoHE comes with a full three year warranty and in the event that a customer is faced with a non working product within these three years, we will be happy to replace it.


Asus motherboard issue
Initially Antec and Asus received reports of issues between NeoHE and two Asus motherboard families including the A8N motherboards. After testing done at both Antec and Asus’s facilities both companies were able to reproduce the problem. Asus let us know that they believed customers may have to upgrade their motherboard to version 1.02 (through Asus) and also to make sure they used the latest BIOS to solve the problem. Further testing by both companies seemed to confirm this.

However once this fix became known to the public both companies received reports from end users that even with version 1.02 motherboards and the latest BIOS they were still experiencing random shutdowns. Once again testing was done at both companies, and from that testing it was concluded:
Old BIOS original NeoHE incompatible for 80% of users
BIOS 1009+1.02 mb original NeoHE incompatible for 20% of users
BIOS 1009+1.02 mb modified NeoHe no problem

At this time (end of November 2005) we air shipped modified NeoHe’s to both our Fremont and Rotterdam offices to be made available to customers who fell into that 20%. In addition, all NeoHE’s that were being shipped out in December included this fix. NeoHE’s with this fix include A3 or higher in the serial number bar code area.

Image
NeoHE Warranty Sticker
As has been noted original NeoHE’s warranty sticker suffered from two problems. Notably the material used was too weak to survive shipping and would often tear. Secondly the position of the warranty sticker was not as specified by Antec for our power supplies. Recent shipments of NeoHE’s have rectified these issues.

A broken warranty sticker does not necessarily invalidate the warranty: as long as the power supply exhibits no other evidence of tampering, as long as the sticker is the first production one in the original location, and as long as the special circumstances warranty procedure (described below) is followed, Antec will honor the warranty for affected Neo HE power supplies.

Customers who encounter this issue must take the following steps:
1. Contact Antec Customer Support by email at customersupport@antec.com or Europe.customersupport@antec.com to report this issue, the sooner the better. Include the model and unit serial number in the report.
2. Antec Customer Support will respond with an email listing that specific power supply by serial number and confirming that, barring other external or internal signs of tampering, Antec will honor the warranty for that reported unit.
3. It is the responsibility of the customer to keep the email from Antec Customer Support. Should an RMA ever be required, the customer will need to produce said email along with other warranty paperwork such as the purchase receipt, RMA form, etc. This is an additional special circumstances requirement for these cases, and no exceptions will be made.
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Post by Goldmember » Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:00 pm

Thanks for the update AntecRep.

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Post by TomZ » Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:06 pm

AntecRep, can you please also let us know the technical background behind the problem or incompatibility with the NeoHE's?

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Not just with ASUS

Post by Worker control » Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:48 pm

I also had a NeoHE fail to boot a Biostar TForce 6100-939. The same mobo was fine with a Fortron.

I think it's disgraceful that Antec didn't do a full recall of these PSUs. I understand that doing so would be expensive, and so the bosses at Antec aren't keen to do it, but really, the NeoHEs are aggravating a lot of people.

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Post by pony-tail » Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:28 pm

It has cost them one customer (only about 4 units per year)
But how many others will drop Antec.
I have found that Seasonic - Silverstone and Fortron make PSUs just as well and mostly cheaper.
Although I am impressed with the Phantom 500 I have in my P4C800-E machine , but it did not
play nice with my latest build , an A8NSLI premium.(which is the machine I bought it for)
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Post by JJ » Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:53 pm

AntecRep wrote:This summary’s objective is to clear up any confusion pertaining to Antec’s NeoHE power supply series compatibility issues that have come up, as well as some other points.
Maybe it's just me, but I've read this post several times and it's _still_ not at all clear whether or not Antec is confident that the latest revision of these power supplies will not exhibit problems with these motherboards. The post seems to be saying that there's still a very good chance that you'll have to RMA the PSU. I don't get it...

If there's a fix, why isn't it applied to every PSU that goes out the door?

Does the fix affect the efficiency of the power supply? If so, then I guess that would answer the previous question.
Motherboard: ASUS P8Z77-M PRO CPU: Intel i5-3750K CPU Cooler: Scythe Mugen 3 Rev.B Memory: G.Skill Ares DDR3 1600 16 GB
Boot Drive: Samsung 830 SSD 128 GB Work Drive: WDC WD1001FALS 1 TB 7200 RPM Optical Drive: Samsung SH-222BB DVD-RW
Case: Fractal Design Define Mini Fans: 2 x FD 120mm front, Scythe 120mm PWM rear Power Supply: SeaSonic M12II 620

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Post by mg1394 » Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:48 pm

JJ wrote:
AntecRep wrote:This summary’s objective is to clear up any confusion pertaining to Antec’s NeoHE power supply series compatibility issues that have come up, as well as some other points.
Maybe it's just me, but I've read this post several times and it's _still_ not at all clear ......... If there's a fix, why isn't it applied to every PSU that goes out the door?
AntecRep wrote: ...... all NeoHE’s that were being shipped out in December included this fix. NeoHE’s with this fix include A3 or higher in the serial number bar code area.
Hmmm, seems clear enough to me.

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Post by allenlux » Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:49 pm

I appreciate the fact that AntecRep posted this information, but his post refers (apart from the warranty sticker part) only to the "Asus motherboard issue", and does not mention problems with other motherboards which may or may not be related.

I finally got my RMA this week and have today posted my NeoHE (0509 vintage) back to Rotterdam, so when I get my new one we'll see if it fixes the "ECS 760GX-M motherboard issue".

Rory Buszka
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Post by Rory Buszka » Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:34 pm

I think every defective NeoHE that Antec allows to walk out the door is just digging themselves a deeper grave WRT their reputation.
No one will believe in your dreams until you invest some money.

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notareal
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Location: Finland

Post by notareal » Sun Mar 26, 2006 4:01 am

allenlux wrote:I appreciate the fact that AntecRep posted this information, but his post refers (apart from the warranty sticker part) only to the "Asus motherboard issue", and does not mention problems with other motherboards which may or may not be related.
They definetly should change the status of this NeoHE problem and not just calling it a asus problem at the FAQ. To get the cosumer's trust back, they have do something to show that broblems will be fixed. After the second NeoHE (A3 at s/n label, s/n starting 0512) that do behave badly, as it requires much more than stated 1A @ +12V line to power on, I will stay out of Antec PSU's.

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