What is the quietest new, over 600W, highly efficient PSU?

PSUs: The source of DC power for all components in the PC & often a big noise source.

Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee, Devonavar

Post Reply
thegoldenstrand
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:41 pm

What is the quietest new, over 600W, highly efficient PSU?

Post by thegoldenstrand » Mon May 29, 2006 7:29 pm

Looking for a Power supply that rates over 600W at 40C and would qualify for membership in the 80 plus club.

I am leaning toward the yet to be released Seasonic S-12 650, but am a little concerned about Seasonics problem of recirculating the hot air back into the case, this appears to have been a compromise Seasonic did in its design that enabled it to run more quietly, while sacrificing case cooling. Was it ever resolved for the S12-600?

I was looking at the one from Aerocool.. with 14CM fan and did not come away impressed with the build quality, but it was pretty quiet.. 34dba at load. and I have looked at the Thermaltake Toughpower also 14cm fan, but no reviews..I am intrigued with the improvements Thermaltake is making to its product lines.. not cheap components anymore!

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/ ... ts_id=4580

http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardw ... dba/3.html

I want a power supply that is over 75% efficient at 100W and over 80% efficient over 150 and quiet as can be ..

I am considering getting the new side door for my Akasa 62 Eclipse case.. that would bring cool air directly into the case under the power supply and accross from the top pci-express card and cpu.. with power supply ramping up with extra heat, would the extra pressure created and cooler air be a help?

The focus of my interest and purpose for this thread is cutting edge new power supplies, not the old ones.

Thanks for any ideas.. :D

My rig will probably only need about 400-500W at peak, but I want to future proof a little.. so going for the gusto.

and.. I do not want to spend more than $200 including tax and shipping.
Last edited by thegoldenstrand on Wed May 31, 2006 6:58 pm, edited 5 times in total.

qviri
Posts: 2465
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 8:22 pm
Location: Berlin
Contact:

Post by qviri » Mon May 29, 2006 7:38 pm

Seasonic S12 600 W should fit the bill.

Now going off topic, I don't really see much need for future proofing since the trend seems to be towards reduced power consumption. Even Intel converted...

Might I ask what you have that you think will pull 400 W at load?

thegoldenstrand
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:41 pm

I have already rejected the Seasonic 600W power supply..

Post by thegoldenstrand » Tue May 30, 2006 10:27 am

Per the various power calculator sites, my planned build will use between 800 and 1100W if everything is being used at peak.

Summary of what I have. A couple raptors, some big drives, a plextor dvd optical drive.. a couple video cards.. with Zalman 900 coolers... and plans to upgrade to the Greyhound K8L when it comes out in a year or so.. quad core.. guessing 140W, right now.. dual core system, with stock cooling I am looking to upgrade to maybe Zalman 9500?

Now.. to the task at hand, finding a suitable quiet power supply (shrug).
and.. I am not the least interested in the Seasonic 600W.. it does not meet my needs. I would rather not have the two video cards share the same rail, and would prefer not to have one of them share a rail with the cpu, so in regards to Seasonic, it would have to be the 650 or 700W versions.
Last edited by thegoldenstrand on Wed May 31, 2006 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

TomZ
Posts: 386
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:59 pm

Post by TomZ » Tue May 30, 2006 6:49 pm

I would second the vote for the S12-600. I have one here and it is running perfectly - and perfectly quiet. I haven't heard it yet, in 4 months of use.

Most of the power calculators I've seen way overstate your power needs. There is no way you'll have a system that consumes 800W or even close. The S12-600 should be fine, as long as you have enough current on the 12V rails. You might want to focus on this parameter in particular, since it is probably the limit you might tend to run into first.

I disagree with qviri's view that there is a trend towards lower-power systems. I would instead suggest that there is a trend towards the availability of lower-power systems due to better technologies. But if you take those same lower-power technologies and crank up the clock, or increase the cache, or add more cores - guess what - more power consumption! In general, there will always be a market for higher-power CPUs because they will always be higher performing, when you look within a particular generation of parts.

Howard
Posts: 275
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:33 pm

Post by Howard » Tue May 30, 2006 8:34 pm

The only thing that worries me about the S12-600 is that both PCI-e connectors are on the same cable... meaning the same rail. If the ATX spec is followed, the overcurrent limiter trips at 20A. Two stock-clocked X1900XTs would work fine on it IF (but not necessarily IFF) they were the only devices powered by that rail. I'm not sure how much power is taken from the PCI-e slot (and it wouldn't even matter if the motherboard was powered from the same rail), but the 20A limit still worries me.

thegoldenstrand
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:41 pm

Some great info there Howard!

Post by thegoldenstrand » Wed May 31, 2006 7:07 pm

I was wondering who put that info together. I have read through it on several occassions now. Thanks!

I am interested in some of the new psus coming out or that just came out. The new 14 cm fans appear to me to be a good idea to reduce noise and I was curious on how in a small power supply unit a 14 cm fan would compare with a 12 cm fan with a similar amount of air moved.

The new Thermaltake claims to move about 82 CFM at 1900 rpms with a 14 cm fan compared to the S-12's claim to move the same amount of air with a 12 cm fan. I realize the Seasonic has kept turbulence down and pressure from building up by the way it is designed, but this also compromises the case temp imo.. so.. I am looking at the whole picture.. performance, efficiency, cooling, and quiet.. and do any of you think the Seasonic will have improved efficiency and case cooling qualities to merit consideration with their next models due out in the next few weeks and months? :D

Howard
Posts: 275
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:33 pm

Post by Howard » Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:38 am

I'd like to know where you came across the link without it being associated with an alias of mine...

If you're willing to void the warranty, I figure you can make almost any PSU near-silent. The mod looks something like this:

http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/1 ... fanmod.gif

Of course, seeing as I haven't done it myself, I have no idea about its efficacy nor if you can mount the PSU upside down in a right-side-up mount.

BillyBuerger
Patron of SPCR
Posts: 857
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2002 1:49 pm
Location: Somerset, WI - USA
Contact:

Post by BillyBuerger » Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:50 am

I did a look through some of the higher power PSUs that SPCR has reviewed. Most of them are 40dB or louder at 400W and above. Given the amount of heat that a PSU would be generating at these levels, I don't think you can expect any less. The only one that did was the Antec Phantom 500 which maxed at 37dB at the full 500W load. The best after that would be the Seasonic which was at 39dB with 400W and maxed out at 40dB. The Seasonic is probably one of the highest efficiency PSUs you'll find as well.

I don't think a 140mm fan will make that much of a difference over a 120mm fan. I think the quality of the parts and the fan controler will make a larger difference. As for Aerocools 34dB at load. The review you mentioned doesn't say at what level the PSU was working or how the measurement was taken. Just "under load". I would guess that it probably would not be any better than the Seasonic.

thegoldenstrand
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:41 pm

Are there No over 600W power supplies anyone can reccommend?

Post by thegoldenstrand » Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:40 am

I have read a ton of reviews.. but few of note on some of the new or soon to be released Power Supplies.

Most reviews really don't give enough info..the review of the 550 Toughpower from Thermaltake, using a 120 mm fan that topped out at 2100 or so rpms, was about 33% higher in dba than what Thermaltake said it would be per the charts provided for the 550.. I was thinking multiply what Thermaltake said the noise would be for the 750 by 133% and it might give a good estimate... LOL..

Call it the Company Bias Finagle Factor CBFF rating for Thermaltake would then be something like 1.33?

Nice Charts for ramp up.. but what I do not understand is if Power Supply ramps up with Temp, not use, why they don't have charts for temp instead.

Mike Chin, if you are reading.. lurking.. just want you to know I really like the work you have done. Maybe SPCR is already doing something like this, but

How about a chart that plots noise to three factors of note, rpm of fan, temp, and power output.

:D
Last edited by thegoldenstrand on Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

MikeC
Site Admin
Posts: 12285
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Contact:

Post by MikeC » Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:41 am

Agreed 100% with BillyBuerger's comments. If your system really draws >250W steady state long term, no PSU will stay quiet, especially in warmer weather. Lower noise operation will require modification to ensure that the PSU is isolated from the rest of the system heat -- ie, a PSU intake duct, perhaps with an additional low speed fan. If you're really seeking to make a quiet high power gaming rig, that aluminum case of yours is not suitable. I'd say it can only be done with a 80mm in-line style PSU w/an intake duct. Otherwise, a P180 is a better bet.

You really need to forget about stock acoustic performance, focus more on efficiency and cooling, and think about how to ensure adequate cooling at a fixed fan rate. In the P180, for example, you could take a very high power, high efficiency PSU (any fan style), then remove the cover of the PSU, block the extra vents around the PSU at the back panel, and add a quiet 120mm fan in the center position of the P180 PSU chamber. Use a thermal sesor at the exhaust of the PSU and set the 120mm fan speed so that at your maximum load (and highest room temp), the temperature stays below ~50C. The exact temp you target should be based on SPCR lab test data on the PSU and/or the mfg specs.

f_gx
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:54 am

Post by f_gx » Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:04 am

I prefer my NESTEQ ELAN VITAL 650W PSU.
It features a stunning 0 db and is rock stable!

it fires my GeForce 7 SLI system and is 96% of the time at 0 db.

just my 2 cents -

regards,
Tobias

MikeC
Site Admin
Posts: 12285
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Contact:

Post by MikeC » Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:36 am

f_gx wrote:I prefer my NESTEQ ELAN VITAL 650W PSU.
It features a stunning 0 db and is rock stable!

it fires my GeForce 7 SLI system and is 96% of the time at 0 db.

just my 2 cents -

regards,
Tobias
Uh... I have a hard time believing it would do this safely long term during high load -- ie full gameplay. But I haven't seen a sample...

Also if the fan stays off 96% of the time, when does it come on & why don't other PSU makers do the same? Surely the efficiency of this thing is no better than that reached by the best FSPs and Seasonics. And the design of the thing is such that it can;t have any significantly greater heatsink area than others.

Consider me skeptical. It seems like a problem just waiting to blow...

jaganath
Posts: 5085
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:55 am
Location: UK

Post by jaganath » Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:50 am

I wonder why Nesteq/Greenerger have never submitted a sample to SPCR; we're like their perfect target market.

MikeC
Site Admin
Posts: 12285
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Contact:

Post by MikeC » Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:58 am

jaganath wrote:I wonder why Nesteq/Greenerger have never submitted a sample to SPCR; we're like their perfect target market.
We're also tough to please & test thermally and acoustically under the most demanding conditions. Maybe too tough for them? :lol:

qstoffe
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:32 pm
Location: Sweden

Post by qstoffe » Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:12 am

jaganath wrote:I wonder why Nesteq/Greenerger have never submitted a sample to SPCR; we're like their perfect target market.

I would like to see a review on NesteQ here on SPCR too !!! I've tried asking around here on the forum for usercomments from people who own this PSU but I've received no answers what so ever :( . Very strange since people on almost every other forum seems to praise this PSU beyond the skies !

For example on Quiet PC USA they claim that the fan never got active on a system running 2x6800 Ultra SLI under load !!!!
http://www.quietpcusa.com/acb/showdetl. ... 39&CATID=2

If even half of what I've heard about this PSU is true, then it is beyond doubt the most quiet/stable high wattage PSU by far !!! :shock:

The only thing that puzzles me though is that so few people own one (judging by the almost non-existing comments regaurding this PSU). But like some people say: silence about a product is often a sign that most people are satisfied with it.

I'm going to change my PSU by the end of this year and since I have yet to here anything bad about this PSU I will most definatly buy a NesteQ. Though I would feel much more at ease knowing it had been review by SPCR before I make such purchase.

MikeC
Site Admin
Posts: 12285
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Contact:

Post by MikeC » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:49 pm

qstoffe wrote:...I've tried asking around here on the forum for user comments from people who own this PSU but I've received no answers what so ever :( . Very strange since people on almost every other forum seems to praise this PSU beyond the skies !

For example on Quiet PC USA they claim that the fan never got active on a system running 2x6800 Ultra SLI under load !!!!
http://www.quietpcusa.com/acb/showdetl. ... 39&CATID=2

If even half of what I've heard about this PSU is true, then it is beyond doubt the most quiet/stable high wattage PSU by far !!! :shock:
My earlier point on this PSU was that it just does not add up. You know if it sounds too good to be true it usually isn't true.

1) You have a standard 120mm fan PSU, AFAI can see, along with...
2) A very agressively quiet fan controller

This still leaves heat to be dissipated. If you have 650W output, with 80% efficiency, you will have 162.5W to dissipate within the PSU. You will also have 650W to dissipate from the case.

OK, let's be realistic -- f_gx's system probably doesn't really draw more than 300W long term. That still means 75W within the PSU to dissipate -- you can't do this passively without massive heatsinks -- and 300W of heat to evacuate from the case. If any of the heat in the case gets sucked up by the PSU fan, then this will add to the 75W of heat it already has to deal with. How long do you think any PSU would survive with no airflow under such conditions?

I don't believe the claim made by QuietPC. It does not compute. If it's true, then it's only because there was 100cfm through the case via other fans. :lol:

I would be really surprised if this PSU survived longer than a few months in a serious high power gaming rig that's set up to run quietly.

f_gx
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:54 am

Post by f_gx » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:58 pm

Hmmm i understand your theory about an agressive fan controler, but let me tell you, if the fan set's in and you put your hand at the rear ot the PSU, the air that comes out is roughly "warm", never nearly what i would call hot.

But if i read the NESTEQs fan wouldn't start with 2 GeForce 6800 Ultra under load, i wouldn't believe it either, the fan is definitely getting active from time to time, in this case at least every 15 minutes i guess. but i don't care. and when you're gaming, you won't listen do your PSU either.
Secound, a SLI system isn't really a choice for someone who wants to build a silent system.

I prefer a silent pc that is 96% really quiet and 4% lets say audible, than a pc that is only "kinda" silent because of a "kinda" silent 12 cm fan.
I would be really surprised if this PSU survived longer than a few months in a serious high power gaming rig that's set up to run quietly.
I really don't think so, i'm sure it can! It's an excellent piece of engineering. It predecessor (Greenerger line) was great and you get 36 months guaranty, so you're always on the safe side.

qstoffe
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:32 pm
Location: Sweden

Post by qstoffe » Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:26 pm

MikeC wrote:I don't believe the claim made by QuietPC. It does not compute. If it's true, then it's only because there was 100cfm through the case via other fans. :lol:

I would be really surprised if this PSU survived longer than a few months in a serious high power gaming rig that's set up to run quietly.

Yes what you say really makes sense. When re-reading the the text from QuietPC I noticed that I missed a part :oops: . The fan actually got active during load, but only for about 10s every 3 minutes and only at very low rpms.

Of course this PSU might have the same problems as other fanless PSUs ( i.e. Antec Phantom, Silverstone) -> they die during longer periods of heavy load (even though power draw is lower than 300W) .

Question is though, would it be possible to cool a PSU drawing a constant 300W: if you remove it's cover and cool it in an Antec P180 with Nexus 120 @ constant 6V ? Or is this unrealistic ?

MikeC
Site Admin
Posts: 12285
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Contact:

Post by MikeC » Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:27 pm

qstoffe wrote:Question is though, would it be possible to cool a PSU drawing a constant 300W: if you remove it's cover and cool it in an Antec P180 with Nexus 120 @ constant 6V ? Or is this unrealistic ?
Well, the reason I suggested setting the fan speed in accordance with exhaust temperature was to ensure adequate cooling. It might not be feasible at 6V, maybe it will take 8V. The exact number doesn't matter; to me what matters is that it's smooth enough, low enough, and constant so that it can be ignored. Also, keep in mind that even while gaming, the PSU load is not constant, it does go and up. If you know that the most taxing thing you do with the system in the hottest room temp requires the PSU fan speed control to be at 2 o'clock, then that's where you put it. You could even figure out low / med /high settings for the fan to keep the fan noise at the lowest possible for each type of load.

Alternatively, if you are using a PSU with a known good fan controller -- like the S12 controllers, then just running the fan off that controller might be good enough. Not subject to system heat, we know the S12-600 fan controller will run pretty slow even to a pretty high load.

f_gx
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:54 am

Post by f_gx » Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:25 am

Guess what! I had a talk with Elan Vital /NESTEQ and it looks like they are interested in sending you an ASM semi passive PSU for review!

MikeC you are an admin, so i guess i'll contact you via pm.

regards,
Tobias

thegoldenstrand
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:41 pm

I would like to see the Nesteq 620 reviewed and more!!

Post by thegoldenstrand » Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:14 pm

Thanks for sharing on the Nesteq.. thought I saw a review recently on it.. overseas.. hmmm. cannot remember where..

What I like best is the control you have over it.. it seems to operate with a temp sensor/combined with your settings..

However, I would like to know what those temp settings are for it to kick in.. and whether you can adjust them.

I would probably use the low fan setting so fan never turns off, but where it will kick in higher at load..

I think it would be great to have a couple power supplies reviewed.. maybe call it the over 600W roundup.. Nesteq 620, Seasonic S12-650 and the Seasonic S-12 700 and even the new ones out from Thermaltake, maybe the Thermaltake Toughpower 700 and the FSP FX-700 GLN.. just a thought..

Have em compared for loads at 100, 150, 300 and 500 and full load :D
at temps of 35, 40, 45, 50 and 55 C
and track the dbas for all of the above.

Thanks for sharing on the Nesteq.. now if the new Seasonic gave similar options of fan control for the S-12 650, I think I would go with the Seasonic, because it will have higher efficiency.. some are saying upper 80's...

BillyBuerger
Patron of SPCR
Posts: 857
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2002 1:49 pm
Location: Somerset, WI - USA
Contact:

Re: I would like to see the Nesteq 620 reviewed and more!!

Post by BillyBuerger » Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:26 pm

thegoldenstrand wrote:What I like best is the control you have over it.. it seems to operate with a temp sensor/combined with your settings..
I feel the "control" on a PSU is useless. I mean, why wouldn't you want your PSU fan on the lowest setting? The only reason I can think of is if you're using your PSU as a main source of exhausting warm air from the case. Even on the lowest setting, a PSU MUST still speed up it's fan enough to keep it cool for saftey reasons. Meaning it acts the same as every other thermally controlled PSU. So the only thing a control on a PSU can really do is let you turn it up higher if you want which just adds more noise.

thegoldenstrand
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:41 pm

I will take any control I can get over automatic

Post by thegoldenstrand » Sun Jun 04, 2006 7:20 pm

Just liked having some control, but.. it still was over ridden by program, so that is kind of pointless, imo.. I want total control of all my stuff as an owner.

Mike

f_gx
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:54 am

Post by f_gx » Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:12 am

I agree. You can never have enough control 8)

extended control is however not available with the NesteQ for now.
only manual speed adjustment or semi-passive mode.

psionic
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:37 am
Location: PA

Enermax Liberty

Post by psionic » Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:46 am

A lot of people are recommending the Seasonic S12 600, which is of course awesome, but if you are absolutely set on modular (as I was), read some reviews on the Enermax Liberty 620W. SPCR has a pretty good one.

It's modular and the cables are more than long enough for the Antec P180 using an ASUS A8N SLI Premium, which puts the ATX 12V connector about as far away from the PSU as possible.

In the SCPR review of the Liberty, the efficiency is close to the S12-600 (breaks 80% in the mid-range) and the fan noise is very good. If you compare the fan noise charts for the S12-600 and the Liberty 620, they are almost identical. However, in the top end (500W+), the S12-600 is clearly less noisy.

I realize you've probably made your decision by now, but I'd figured I'd throw in my 2 cents for future readers! :)

~El~Jefe~
Friend of SPCR
Posts: 2887
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:21 pm
Location: New York City zzzz
Contact:

Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Sun Jun 11, 2006 7:11 pm

the concern for not enough pci-e power from the psu never takes into consideration that the socket for pci-e has a LOT more wattage output than agp, one of the reasons agp was tossed from what I gather. Not that I am an electrical engineer, but you pass on things from places that you trust.

s-12 600 can output a sick level of power.

know what also can handle your system easily? a seasonic s12 430 watt. Yes indeed it can. raptors really dont use more than 3-5 watts of power vs a regular new hardrive. the most demanding need for a psu could never reach 600 watts, although, it sure is a nice psu all the same.

frankgehry
Posts: 1424
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 5:00 am
Location: New York, NY

Post by frankgehry » Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:01 pm

The ocz gamexstream is a new one based on the fortron epsilon 700w. It's getting good reviews -

http://www.modthebox.com/review474_1.shtml

http://www.overclockercafe.com/Reviews/ ... /index.htm

And here is a review of the fortron epsilon with an expanation of their design that permits the use of smaller heatsinks also found in the fsp green power and zalman zm460.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/ ... dup_5.html

DrCR
Posts: 538
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 11:55 am

Post by DrCR » Sun Jun 11, 2006 9:39 pm

Yeah, I'm looking forward to the Greyhound as well...but that's a year and a half off i.e. forever in computer years. Just get a solid Seasonic for your rig now and get a new PSU whe you layout $1200USD on a Greyhound when it comes out.

I can't chide you too much though. I'm already planning out a unique watercooling setup to allow me to max OC a Greyhound while still allowing me SPCR-spec quietness. :D

DrCR

Post Reply