PicoPSU 150 fine for this build? How 2 find 150W power adapt

[need4quiet]

I'm doing a build with an Asus board with nVidia 8200 on board graphics, a 4850e Athlon low power CPU, 2x2gb ram, one hard drive (possibly two later), one Bluray drive (possibly DVD later also), up to 2 external USB devices and there's an LED on the front of the case.

An Antec link I used said that at 100% load, this would use 138W of power. Is a PicoPSU 150 enough for this? It seems it gets paired with a 102W power adapter at most places. What should it be paired with?

I don't want to destroy my components, so I'm hoping the experts here can give some guidance.

I'm hoping for a silent power supply that doesn't cost me $200. Thanks.

[barefootzero]

I think the problem you will run into is you wont be able to find a 12V 150W brick that does not have a fan.

If you already have the rest of the system and a power supply then you could pick up a power meter. I just ordered a Seasonic Power Angel off ebay for ~$50 including shipping. They are a useful thing to have anyway. Then see for yourself how much power your system can draw.

If you are willing to cut it close you could buy one of the 24DC->ATX adapters electrodacus is selling. There is supposed to be a SPCR review of it soon (By around the 17th) and he will also be selling a 24V 150W power brick to go with it later this week. It is discussed in this topic. You have to scroll down about halfway.

viewtopic.php?t=54577&sid=2b8eea205a691 ... 9176db4abf

I ordered one recently for about $45 including shipping. I will post my thoughts on it when it arrives in a week or two (shipping is from canada).

One convenient thing about his is that it actually accepts a range of input voltages (18.5-26V) so it makes it easier to scavenge for a suitable brick. A lot of old LCD monitors have 90W bricks in a range of voltages his PSU will accept.

[electrodacus]

I'm doing a build with an Asus board with nVidia 8200 on board graphics, a 4850e Athlon low power CPU, 2x2gb ram, one hard drive (possibly two later), one Bluray drive (possibly DVD later also), up to 2 external USB devices and there's an LED on the front of the case.

An Antec link I used said that at 100% load, this would use 138W of power. Is a PicoPSU 150 enough for this? It seems it gets paired with a 102W power adapter at most places. What should it be paired with?

I don't want to destroy my components, so I'm hoping the experts here can give some guidance.

I'm hoping for a silent power supply that doesn't cost me $200. Thanks.

The total power on any power supply is not so important you need to see how much current you will need for each of the main power lines +12V +5V and +3.3V usually the biggest problem is the +12V or +5V line.
Based on your requirement you will have problem with 5V line
I do not know how much the 8200 MB will need I have a G31 MB and it need from 3.5A up to a bit over 5A on the 5V line this is almost close to the 6A max for the PicoPSU 150.
If you need a small and cheap fanless PSU you need to reduce your number of drive all will use the 5V HDD about 1A on 5V depends on HDD and you want two then Blueray and DVD another 1A / drive or more and external USB devices this can take up to 1A / PCS (only this will need 6A in total) .
I have also fanless power supply for sale and provide 7A on the 5V line but still not enough for your requirement.
If you are serious about your requirement then you can use two of my power supply one for MB and CPU and one for 2xHDD Bluray and DVD.

[reddyuday]

It seems it gets paired with a 102W power adapter at most places. What should it be paired with?

I don't want to destroy my components, so I'm hoping the experts here can give some guidance.

Please look at the thread "Pico Psu 150Watt power brick or alternatives" where these issues have just been hashed out. My recommendation is to use the 150W power brick from short-circuit.com paired with PW-200 (not PicoPSU). PicoPSU's input jack is only rated for 8Amps (96W) but, of course, you can always try your luck overloading it!

Edit: In the light of the discussion below, my recommendation is no good any more. Even though PW-200 has higher wattage rating, in practice, it has been observed to perform worse than PicoPSU-150-XT.

[barefootzero]

It seems it gets paired with a 102W power adapter at most places. What should it be paired with?

I don't want to destroy my components, so I'm hoping the experts here can give some guidance.

Please look at the thread "Pico Psu 150Watt power brick or alternatives" where these issues have just been hashed out. My recommendation is to use the 150W power brick from short-circuit.com paired with PW-200 (not PicoPSU). PicoPSU's input jack is only rated for 8Amps (96W) but, of course, you can always try your luck overloading it!

I would be suspicious of the power plug on the PW-200. They don't label the maximum input current for that connector and I would be far from surprised to find out that the 8.5 Amp current limit is a fundamental product of that type of connector design.

With either the PicoPSU or the PW-200 you could always bypass the connector by wiring the brick directly to the PSU or using a better connector type.

[reddyuday]

I would be suspicious of the power plug on the PW-200. They don't label the maximum input current for that connector and I would be far from surprised to find out that the 8.5 Amp current limit is a fundamental product of that type of connector design.

Good point. This spurred me into going and checking the certifications that these products have.

The picoPSU-120 is certified by CE/FCC/VCCI. Since there are no precautions in the manual of this unit, I take it that the certification bodies were ok with pulling 10 Amps through the 2.5mm jack.

For picoPSU-150, the mini-box web site says that the certifications need to be "obtained separately". I guess they mean that they are waiting for them. The manual of this unit has the warning about not pulling more than 8 Amps through the jack. My guess is that the certification bodies require them to say that.

For the PW-200 units, the web site doesn't mention anything about certification. Likewise, the short-circuit.com web site doesn't say anything about the certification of their powerbricks. But they are clearly selling mated combos which can pull 12.5 Amps through the jacks. Obviously they don't believe that these things will go up in smoke, and nobody complained here about any problems with these combos either. So my guess is that these things function ok even though the certification bodies do not regard them as safe.

I think Electrodacus and his clients may have an advantage here because they have FCC certification. This should become clearer after the SPCR review of his power supply.

With either the PicoPSU or the PW-200 you could always bypass the connector by wiring the brick directly to the PSU or using a better connector type.

Indeed, in the thread called "Mating Dell DA-2 and PW-200-V", I am trying to document my efforts at using the ATX power connectors to do this. The picoPSU users might want to do something similar as well.

Uday

[electrodacus]

The highest current for a 2.5mm connector is 5A and this is for the best quality connectors some lower quality are specified at 2A.
So even 8A will be to much in my opinion (and I'm an electrical engineer) .

[barefootzero]

The highest current for a 2.5mm connector is 5A and this is for the best quality connectors some lower quality are specified at 2A.
So even 8A will be to much in my opinion (and I'm an electrical engineer) .

Maybe you can tell us what the factor of safety in the design is.

[reddyuday]

The highest current for a 2.5mm connector is 5A and this is for the best quality connectors some lower quality are specified at 2A.
So even 8A will be to much in my opinion (and I'm an electrical engineer) .

Maybe you can tell us what the factor of safety in the design is.

I guess Electrodacus hasn't noticed your question.

I am not an electrical engineer, but I have seen Molex's test report for the Mini-fit Jr terminals (5556 series), the ones I am using. It says

Test conditions: Wire AWG - 18, Amps - 7.5A
Requirement: 30 degrees C maximum temp rise
Maximum temp rise: 32.2 C

So, at 7.5Amps, the terminal already exceeded the required limit. At 8Amps, it would be a little bit worse.

I don' t think the 2.5mm jacks will fare any better. You might say nothing will burn at 50-60C. But these are exposed connectors, and you wouldn't want to burn your fingers if you happen to touch them.

Uday

[electrodacus]

Yes I did not notice this question is not about the safety factor is about the safety.
I do not thick you will want to have a burned house just because of a 5$ connector. Usually people use this small power supply like picoPSU in a 24/7 system so you want to make sure the connector will not get hot
You will not find any brick (made by a reputable company) with 5.5x2.5mm connector and more than 5A but you can find fake one with as much as you want.

[Rushdie]

There are lots of 8A+ bricks (like the popular FSP 12V 12.5A one), and I find it strange that a company such as FSP would mount a connector with a maximum spec of 8A to a brick that is capable of handling 12.5A.

I was thinking about replacing the 2.5/5.5mm-connector with a 2x2 mini-fit connector, since each pin on those are rated at 6A. Or if it's possible to to locate some other type of connector (more user friendly one), I might consider using that instead.

[dchan]

Mini-box recently started carrying a 12v 12.5a AC/DC brick. The unit comes with a 4pin DIN-Minifit adapter. I can't post links yet, but it is listed on the AC-DC Power Supplies section of mini-box.

[barefootzero]

There are lots of 8A+ bricks (like the popular FSP 12V 12.5A one), and I find it strange that a company such as FSP would mount a connector with a maximum spec of 8A to a brick that is capable of handling 12.5A.

I was thinking about replacing the 2.5/5.5mm-connector with a 2x2 mini-fit connector, since each pin on those are rated at 6A. Or if it's possible to to locate some other type of connector (more user friendly one), I might consider using that instead.

A couple questions...

Is your brick UL listed?
Was the connector put on their by FSP or by someone else?

It wouldn't surprise me at all that a company totally blew off some guideline or an individual engineer took it upon themselves to do so. The guidelines in general provide for some factor of safety which alot of irresponsible engineers have chosen to ignore now and then. For instance at work my gas system has to be rated for TEN times the amount of pressure my pressure release valve will go off and my pressure release valve has to be several times my operating pressure. That leaves alot of room for error which is good but if something goes wrong and someone ignored the guidelines someone could get a piece of a gas regulator shoved through their skull. Similarly you would like your power connector to be able to handle several times its rated current so that if there is a short in the system your house doesn't burn down perhaps killing your pets or children. Another possibility is the insulation melts and maybe there is a short in the PSU exposing a live wire. None of these things are likely but the consequences are bad enough that it is worth it to take extra cautions to guard against them.

At any rate I think your idea of using the minifit connector is a good one.

[Rushdie]

There are lots of 8A+ bricks (like the popular FSP 12V 12.5A one), and I find it strange that a company such as FSP would mount a connector with a maximum spec of 8A to a brick that is capable of handling 12.5A.

I was thinking about replacing the 2.5/5.5mm-connector with a 2x2 mini-fit connector, since each pin on those are rated at 6A. Or if it's possible to to locate some other type of connector (more user friendly one), I might consider using that instead.

A couple questions...

Is your brick UL listed?
Was the connector put on their by FSP or by someone else?

It wouldn't surprise me at all that a company totally blew off some guideline or an individual engineer took it upon themselves to do so. The guidelines in general provide for some factor of safety which alot of irresponsible engineers have chosen to ignore now and then. For instance at work my gas system has to be rated for TEN times the amount of pressure my pressure release valve will go off and my pressure release valve has to be several times my operating pressure. That leaves alot of room for error which is good but if something goes wrong and someone ignored the guidelines someone could get a piece of a gas regulator shoved through their skull. Similarly you would like your power connector to be able to handle several times its rated current so that if there is a short in the system your house doesn't burn down perhaps killing your pets or children. Another possibility is the insulation melts and maybe there is a short in the PSU exposing a live wire. None of these things are likely but the consequences are bad enough that it is worth it to take extra cautions to guard against them.

At any rate I think your idea of using the minifit connector is a good one.

I don't know if it's UL-rated or not. I haven't bought it, since I'm not sure about it yet... I mean, if the engineers would mount a 8A connector to a brick capable of delivering 12.5A, what other 'mistakes' are lurking in the brick? Faulty caps? Bad wiring?
FSP has always been a quality (OEM) manufacturer. Not sure about that now.

I guess that the limitations of the 2.5/5.5mm connector is due to the total area inside the connector itself. I'm guessing heat is the primary concern. Compare that to the 2x2 mini-fit (or any of those connectors), they are rated to 6A per pin, which is lower than that of the 2.5/5.5mm connector. (the pins are smaller)

The plan for the rig I'm building is as follows; use the 2.5/5.5mm connector and test the rig at maximum load. If the current is above 8A, I'm going to swap it for something else, probably a 2x2 mini-fit. If it's not, then I'll just stick with it.

It would be preferable if there were a single pin connector that could handle up to 12.5A. I've been looking around, but can't seem to find one. XLR or a DIN-connector (with 2,4,6,.. pins) might be usable. I know that a standard mini-fit connector works, but it doesn't look sleek and slim...

Edit: An XLR would probably work fine. They can be delivered with 3,4 or 5 pins, and each pin can deliver 16A, 10A or 7.5A (3pin=16A, 4pin=10A, 5pin=7.5A). So a XLR4 (with 4 pins) rated at 10A/pin would be perfect. Plug + socket is about 13$.

https://www1.elfa.se/data1/wwwroot/webr ... 230058.pdf
The specs start at page 2.

[reddyuday]

A couple questions...

Is your brick UL listed?
Was the connector put on their by FSP or by someone else?

The FSP brick is UL listed and "tested to comply with FCC standards". Here is a link to its web page:

http://www.fsp-group.com.tw/english/1_p ... &proid=426

It indeed comes with a 2.5-5.5mm jack.

I am speculating about the safety issues. Heat is of course the primary issue. The higher the current, the higher the heat generated in the connector and, so, it all depends on the whether the pins and the housing can withstand the heat.

[barefootzero]

A couple questions...

Is your brick UL listed?
Was the connector put on their by FSP or by someone else?

The FSP brick is UL listed and "tested to comply with FCC standards". Here is a link to its web page:

http://www.fsp-group.com.tw/english/1_p ... &proid=426

It indeed comes with a 2.5-5.5mm jack.

I am speculating about the safety issues. Heat is of course the primary issue. The higher the current, the higher the heat generated in the connector and, so, it all depends on the whether the pins and the housing can withstand the heat.

I noticed the product image on the webpage you listed does not show it with a barrel connector but some sort of 2 pin connector. This leads me to believe that the barrel connector may have been added by a third party. As they don't list a paticular connector on the product page this seems very plossible. In this case the UL listing would not cover the connector.

Here is a link to the UL listing. http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/temp ... sequence=1

[reddyuday]

I noticed the product image on the webpage you listed does not show it with a barrel connector but some sort of 2 pin connector. This leads me to believe that the barrel connector may have been added by a third party. As they don't list a paticular connector on the product page this seems very plossible. In this case the UL listing would not cover the connector.

Good explanation. It is possible that the manufacturers get the certification using a decent connector (now that I look at it closely, the connector in the web page is more like a 4-pin DIN connector), but then sell the bricks with all kinds of other connectors.

Here is another reputable manufacturer, CUI,
http://www.cui.com/adtemplate.asp?invky ... subcatky3=
which lets the buyer pick different connectors, without saying anything about power rating. I guess the buyers would be OEMs who will figure out the right kind of connector to use for their application.

So you are probably right that the certification doesn't cover the output connector of the power bricks.

[electrodacus]

Here is another reputable manufacturer, CUI,
http://www.cui.com/adtemplate.asp?invky ... subcatky3=
which lets the buyer pick different connectors, without saying anything about power rating. I guess the buyers would be OEMs who will figure out the right kind of connector to use for their application.

So you are probably right that the certification doesn't cover the output connector of the power bricks.

I only see the 4 pin Din connector in the spec and at Digi-key.
The 5.5x2.5mm will not be used for more than 5A try to find a connector manufacturer that will advertise more than 5A for this type of connector the most used connector over 7A is this 4 pin DIN.

[electrodacus]

See this two example I guess is what is used on the PicoPSU and PW-200-M
similar to picoPSU
similar to PW-200-M

[reddyuday]

Here is another reputable manufacturer, CUI,
http://www.cui.com/adtemplate.asp?invky ... subcatky3=
which lets the buyer pick different connectors, without saying anything about power rating.

I only see the 4 pin Din connector in the spec and at Digi-key.

At the bottom right of the web page, there is a link to output plug options, which includes 2.5-5.5mm jack.

The 5.5x2.5mm will not be used for more than 5A try to find a connector manufacturer that will advertise more than 5A for this type of connector the most used connector over 7A is this 4 pin DIN.

I agree. I haven't seen it advertised. But I have an FSP-150 power brick in my possession which has a 2.5-5.5mm jack. (I purchased it from LinITX). There is all the certification printed on the back of the power brick and there is no evidence of any tampering.

So, we are wondering what all this certification covers. Somehow, the manufacturers are getting certification with one connector and then selling it with another connector.

[barefootzero]

That connector list almost looks like a totally different product page. I am inclined to believe that they got the certification for the brick and the person who buys the product is personally responsible for choosing the correct connector.

Given that you can buy many bricks without any connector that are UL certified this seams likely. In fact I am using a UL certified brick at work right now that came without any connector.

[reddyuday]

Mini-box recently started carrying a 12v 12.5a AC/DC brick. The unit comes with a 4pin DIN-Minifit adapter. I can't post links yet, but it is listed on the AC-DC Power Supplies section of mini-box.

Welcome to SPCR!

You are right. Both mini-box and short-circuit are selling 150W bricks with a 4-pin DIN connector and a Minifit adapter. Given that PicoPSU-150 also comes with a Minifit connector, this combination is quite suitable for end users. No modding required.

The only problem is that a 150W power supply seems to preclude high end graphics cards. With CPU and GPU both drawing 65W each at peak, there is no head room left for the system.

Here is the link to mini-box power brick:
http://www.mini-box.com/12v-12-5A-AC-DC ... tegory=980

Uday

[taidi]

Here is the link to mini-box power brick:
http://www.mini-box.com/12v-12-5A-AC-DC ... tegory=980

Uday

But not available in UK ?

I have found a couple of useful looking fanless AC/DC converters from a UK based company and would appreciate your opinion on the suitability for use with the PicoPSU-150.

http://www.relec.co.uk/product743.html

http://www.relec.co.uk/product744.html

[reddyuday]

But not available in UK ?

Hi Taidi, Cov from London ordered his power supplies from short-circuit.com and reported good experience. Her Majesty's Customs can charge some extra, but it is probably no worse than the VAT we have to pay here normally. Just don't select USMail/Royal Mail for shipping because Royal Mail can charge some more for getting it through Customs.

I have found a couple of useful looking fanless AC/DC converters from a UK based company and would appreciate your opinion on the suitability for use with the PicoPSU-150.
http://www.relec.co.uk/product743.html
http://www.relec.co.uk/product744.html

They are a good find! EDAC is using 4-pin DIN sockets made by Kycon, which can handle 15A of current, and so perfect for a 180W adapter. I am not sure if Relec is a retailer, though. Please let us know if they sell to end-users. If you do get one of these adapters, remember to get a matching DIN socket for the PicoPSU, which Relec apparently have in stock.

[taidi]

In the meantime I found a FSP150-AHBN1 available at Kustompcs..
http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_1666.html
for £46.00 and they also stock the picoPSU-150-XT

What I'm not sure about is does there need to be a margin between the PSU and the power brick. Is it better to use a 180w adapter with a 150W PSU and a 150W adapter with a 120W PSU etc.

A friend is lending me his power meter next week so I should have a clearer picture of what I need.

Is Prime95 still considered a good way to load the system to capacity ?

[reddyuday]

In the meantime I found a FSP150-AHBN1 available at Kustompcs..
http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_1666.html
for £46.00 and they also stock the picoPSU-150-XT

The FSP power brick is being sold with 2.5-5.5mm jack that is rated for up to 8A of current, but to get 150W at 12V, you need to draw 12.5A of current. A good part of the discussion in this thread has been about whether the jack can handle the higher current.

You would really be better off with a 4-pin DIN connector or Minifit Jr connector.

Is Prime95 still considered a good way to load the system to capacity ?

Yes, I think so.

[Ksanderash]

Is Prime95 still considered a good way to load the system to capacity ?

Yes, as a general compute load it is still unsurpassed. But the most stressful impact on the CPU consumption (thus most of the power) has Linpack app. Try this one, user friendly variant. More info here.

[taidi]

They are a good find! EDAC is using 4-pin DIN sockets made by Kycon, which can handle 15A of current, and so perfect for a 180W adapter. I am not sure if Relec is a retailer, though. Please let us know if they sell to end-users. If you do get one of these adapters, remember to get a matching DIN socket for the PicoPSU, which Relec apparently have in stock.

I phoned Relec this morning. For the EA11351A 120W version the rep gave me a price of £45.00 + Vat + shipping. Then he must have realised I wasn't a 'commercial' buyer and referred me to RS Components for small quantities. RS Copmonents have a slightly different price....(plus VAT plus shipping)

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/sear ... &R=0417782

They also stock the 12.5A version

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/sear ... &R=6677261

The RS Component prices certainly make direct purchase from the US a viable option !!

------------------
@ Ksanderash - thank you for the links to Lynx software....I'll give that a go.

[darkvader]

you can get the 4 pin plug & socket in the .toby.co.uk


item no KPJX-PM-4S-S & ,KPPX-4P

[Bartender]

This adapter at shortcircuit, listed as a new product

http://short-circuit.com/product/premiu ... AC-DC.html

looks very similar to the one linked by reddyuday at mini-box.

After looking at several of these threads, I'm a little bit lost regarding the mini-Din pinouts - is there some way to say whether the shortcircuit adapter will work with electro's Winmates?

I'm ready to buy both pieces if I can get some confirmation that plugging them together won't result in smoke and flames