Churning SilenX on nForce2 Board

hawkeye1 · Post by **hawkeye1** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 2:51 pm

All,

I installed an nForce2 board into a Lian Li PC-6070 case this past weekend. While my Silenx 14dB 400W PSU worked well and was fairly silent with my old KT400 board (some occasional whining), it just didn't like the nForce2 board. For some reason, it kept loudly churning like it was trying to acquire power, an up and down "whrrr whrrr whrrr" if you can imagine what I'm trying to portray. Even when it wasn't whrrring up and down, it was still prohibitively loud. So, I took it out and replaced it with a modded PC Power and Cooling Silencer 400. That works well for me, but even with the mod my PSU is once again the loudest component in my case.

One other thing I noticed when I was using the SilenX--I couldn't control my CPU temps, which steadily climbed until the board cut off. Again, the Silencer 400 eliminated that problem, and my CPU is now running at a steady and acceptable temp.

Anyone else have these problems with the SilenX, or otherwise have any suggestions? FYI, I'm running three hard drives and two optical drives in my case, and the Lian Li has two 80mm fans in the front and one in the back.

Thanks/hawkeye1

aphonos · Post by **aphonos** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 7:42 pm

Weird.....SilenX Silenx or Ahainx SilenX?

Wedge · Post by **Wedge** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 7:50 pm

aphonos wrote:Weird.....SilenX Silenx or Ahainx SilenX?

Yeah I'm interested in knowing that as well.

For those that might not know what aphonos is asking: there is the SilenX PSU with a "SilenX" fan inside that is sold at silenx.com (hence SilenX SilenX) and there is a SilenX PSU that contains an Ahanix fan inside and is sold at Exoticpc.com (hence Ahanix Silenx).

hawkeye1 · Post by **hawkeye1** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 8:18 pm

It's a SilenX SilenX, maybe had it about 3 months now.

phaedrus · Post by **phaedrus** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 7:58 am

Yeah, sometimes I get this churning sound, too, with my 300W 14dBA SilenX SilenX when I try to power up or power down.

However, using the Hardware Monitor utility that accompanies the AOpen AX4C Max board, I get warnings that I'm stressing the 12V line too much with my System Fan 3 (my case fan), which is a 120mm Panaflo L1BX. But after reading what some people run on their systems with a 300W PSU, I think I might have a dud.

Here's what I'm running:

AX4C Max motherboard
P4 2.6C
512MB of Crucial PC3200 DDR x 2
Sony DRU510a DVD Drive
ATI Radeon 9600 Pro
Adaptec Firewire PCI Card
Fans:
on-board AOpen Fan (on Northbridge HS?)
Panaflo 80mm M1BX on Thermalright SLK-800U
Panaflo 120mm L1BX case fan
USB receiver for wireless mouse/keyboard

It seems from what I've read in other posts that a 300W should have no problem with this. Am I wrong? Is this a bad PSU?

hawkeye1 · Post by **hawkeye1** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 1:33 pm

Interesting response, phaedrus. Seems as if your problem is at least somewhat similar to mine, although mine was constant. I agree we should both have plenty of power from our 300W and 400W models, so perhaps I've just got a bad model, too.

sundog29 · Post by **sundog29** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 8:17 pm

hawkeye1 wrote:...

Anyone else have these problems with the SilenX, ...

Yes.

The sound was so annoying on my second system (Granite Bay) that I shut it down.

aphonos · Post by **aphonos** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 8:42 pm

If Peter Kim is still around, it seems now would be an appropriate time to hear from him. Peter?.......

I'll PM the silenx user with a link to this thread. Perhaps he has the PM notification via email turned on.

For any of you having this problem, what is the response you get from Silenx tech/customer support regarding this issue?

silenx · Post by **silenx** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 9:03 pm

By any chance, something in the PSU blocking the fan? Bits and pieces of the styrofoam that shipped out with the initial units? We haven't been able to duplicate any problems with noise difference between the KT400 and the nForce2 boards, considering it seems like a physical noise instead of something electrical, the only conclusion we can come up with is some sort of physical interference with the fan itself.

phaedrus · Post by **phaedrus** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 9:47 pm

As far as I can see, there isn't anything blocking the fan in my unit (300W 14dBA). One of my other concerns is that my Hardware Monitor (AOpen SilenTek) utility beeps and warns me that my 120mm fan cannot be monitored and regulated because it is either drawing too much power from the 12V line or it's pushing the 12V line past its limit. Either way, with the components I've listed above and what I've seen other people run on their 300W PSUs, it would seem that what I'm running should be no problem for a PSU this size.

(On a side note, I am also working with AOpen to determine if any of these problems could be BIOS and/or motherboard related issues.)

Talz · Post by **Talz** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 10:08 pm

You might try using an adapter and powering the 120mm fan from a 4 pin molex connector rather than the motherboard header.

hawkeye1 · Post by **hawkeye1** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 11:46 pm

I gave my 400W model the most thorough look-over I could without opening it up, nothing there. But, since I took it straight from my old system to my new system, I didn't expect there to be anything.

FYI, the only fan I have running from the motherboard header is the one cooling the CPU. All others are on 4-pin molex connectors.

phaedrus · Post by **phaedrus** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 7:28 am

(Warning: OT)

I bought the AOpen motherboard for its ability to control the speed (and noise) of three separate fans - the CPU, Northbridge, and a third "System Fan". Would this still be possible if I had a larger PSU? Would the 350W Fortron discussed in another thread be enough or would I need something 400W or better? I would really prefer to be able to power the fans through the motherboard and use AOpen's Hardware Monitor app to control them.

aphonos · Post by **aphonos** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 11:15 am

hawkeye1 wrote:Interesting response, phaedrus. Seems as if your problem is at least somewhat similar to mine, although mine was constant. I agree we should both have plenty of power from our 300W and 400W models, so perhaps I've just got a bad model, too.

hawkeye1: What are the details of your system specs: processor, HDD and optical models, heatsink and fan, etc?

Do you have the connectors to try the nForce/SilenX setup with the CPU fan plugged into the PSU and no fans running through the mobo?

sundog29: What are your system specs? What troubleshooting have you tried?

phaedrus wrote:(Warning: OT) I bought the AOpen motherboard for its ability to control the speed (and noise) of three separate fans - the CPU, Northbridge, and a third "System Fan". Would this still be possible if I had a larger PSU? Would the 350W Fortron discussed in another thread be enough or would I need something 400W or better? I would really prefer to be able to power the fans through the motherboard and use AOpen's Hardware Monitor app to control them.

phaedrus: Don't be too quick to run out and get another PSU until you hear how SilenX will handle this. I don't think your issue is related to the load on a 300W PSU, but the load on the SilenX 300W PSU. You didn't mention HDD in your specs. What da ya got?

Can you turn off the alarm in the Hardware Monitor? Is your system stable or does the lack of voltage cause crashing? Can you plug your fan into the PSU and get the same issue?

aphonos · Post by **aphonos** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 11:37 am

silenx wrote:By any chance, something in the PSU blocking the fan? Bits and pieces of the styrofoam that shipped out with the initial units? We haven't been able to duplicate any problems with noise difference between the KT400 and the nForce2 boards, considering it seems like a physical noise instead of something electrical, the only conclusion we can come up with is some sort of physical interference with the fan itself.

What testing have you done with KT400 and nForce2 boards? Please describe.

Why, in your professional opinion, do the same symptoms show up on a nForce2 board and a P4 Intel 875P Canterwood, ICH5R board and a Granite Bay Intel E7205 chipset board?

You did not address the question of the AOpen Hardware Monitor showing low voltage on the 12V rail with a 120mm fan plugged into the mobo. That seems like an electrical problem to me and not just a physical noise.

What is the next step for these dissatisfied customers now that they have determined (to the best of their knowledge) that there is no fan obstruction?

silenx · Post by **silenx** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 12:49 pm

As far as KT400 and nForce2 boards are concerned, we simply ran some load/stability tests to detect any compatibility issues. Noise levels were monitored along with the rail voltages and they complied to our specs on our test systems.

The question regarding the nForce2, P4 875P and P4 E7205, we haven't had any issues, but one thing for sure is these chipsets do consume more power than the other chipsets out there.

We haven't used the AOpen hardware monitor so that, we cannot comment on.

If you do have problems with the voltage, there is one thing we can suggest the customers to try. There is a potentiometer on the power supply that can be accessed when the cover is opened to try increasing the voltage across the rails. It's usually a white circular shaped piece with a cross head threaded at the top, a simple turn on this will raise/lower voltages. Do so only if you are comfortable with opening up a unit to do this work on.

hawkeye1 · Post by **hawkeye1** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 3:51 pm

aphonos - I'm running two optical and three hard drives in my system, actually one less hard drive than I was running in my old system with no problems.

SilenX - I'm not uncomfortable opening my PSU, especially since I'm running a modded one now; however, I am uncomfortable playing around with voltage controls to find the "sweet" spot and potentially damaging my components if I make a mistake.

aphonos · Post by **aphonos** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 7:11 pm

silenx wrote:As far as KT400 and nForce2 boards are concerned, we simply ran some load/stability tests to detect any compatibility issues. Noise levels were monitored along with the rail voltages and they complied to our specs on our test systems.

The question regarding the nForce2, P4 875P and P4 E7205, we haven't had any issues, but one thing for sure is these chipsets do consume more power than the other chipsets out there.

silenx: (1) You just said you tested the nForce2 boards and it met your standards, so what difference does it make if these chipsets consume more power?
(2) So, are you suggesting that the SilenX 300W or 400W does not conform to the ATX12V Power Supply form factor v 1.2 or 1.3 on which these chipsets/mobos are based?
(3) Or that (though you are compliant with ATX Form Factor 2.03 per your website) for some reason these PSUs are out of compliance with ATX Form Factor 2.10 (June 2002)??

silenx wrote:We haven't used the AOpen hardware monitor so that, we cannot comment on.

phaedrus: Can you provide the voltages from both the AOpen utility and MBM logged over a period of time to demonstrate that it is not the monitoring software that is the issue, but either the PSU or the mobo that is creating the voltage problem.

silenx wrote:If you do have problems with the voltage, there is one thing we can suggest the customers to try. There is a potentiometer on the power supply that can be accessed when the cover is opened to try increasing the voltage across the rails. It's usually a white circular shaped piece with a cross head threaded at the top, a simple turn on this will raise/lower voltages. Do so only if you are comfortable with opening up a unit to do this work on.

silenx: And if they are not comfortable, then SilenX will pay to ship the PSU back to the shop and perform this adjustment for them under the conditions of the warranty?

phaedrus · Post by **phaedrus** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 11:03 pm

aphonos: I looked at that list a couple times, but I knew I'd forget something. Running one 80GB 'Cuda SATA V.

phaedrus: Can you provide the voltages from both the AOpen utility and MBM logged over a period of time to demonstrate that it is not the monitoring software that is the issue, but either the PSU or the mobo that is creating the voltage problem.

aphonos: I'll have to wait a couple days, unfortunately. I had to return my video card because it decided to not communicate with my monitor after working for only a few hours. Anyhow, it had a noisy fan and I'm replacing it with a fanless card

, so until I get that card in and the system up and running, I have to wait to try and re-create the process.

What I do know is that the AOpen Hardware Monitor utility gave me a few warnings about the 12V line when it tried to monitor my 120mm fan before it turned fan monitoring "off" for that particular fan. The utility has an option to turn on and off beep notifications for different voltages and I turned of the +12V beep and it went away. Turned it back on and it came back, so at least we know it's a problem related to the 12V line. The warnings didn't seem to affect system stability and my system has yet to crash because of it. I'll have to buy an adapter to try connecting the fan directly to the PSU.

I haven't used MBM before, so it will take me a little while to figure out how to log voltages over a length of time with either utility. Is there some way to have MBM collect this information or do I need to watch and write down the information as I see it? When I get good info, I'll post it.

I also want to see what happens if I fix the voltages for all the fans rather than using the thermally-controlled "Smart Fan" setting in the AOpen utility.

Lastly, I still have the problem with my system not being able to perform the "restart" function in Windows. Windows will shut down but my system doesn't power down and then up again and reboot into Windows (XP Pro). I still don't know if this is a PSU problem or a mobo problem. I don't have any problems using the "Turn off" function - the system turns off like it should.

I am in the dark about a lot of this stuff still, so I will hold off pointing any fingers. Since I've put the system together, I've had a lot of issues with my video card. Once that is in and running stable, I'll be able to focus my attention on the PSU issues.

SilenX: There are things that I am comfortable doing with electronics; poking around inside a PSU, however, is not one of them.

Jan Kivar · Post by **Jan Kivar** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 11:32 pm

phaedrus wrote:(Warning: OT) I bought the AOpen motherboard for its ability to control the speed (and noise) of three separate fans - the CPU, Northbridge, and a third "System Fan". Would this still be possible if I had a larger PSU? Would the 350W Fortron discussed in another thread be enough or would I need something 400W or better? I would really prefer to be able to power the fans through the motherboard and use AOpen's Hardware Monitor app to control them.

Try if the fan works if it's plugged to the CPU Fan header (or northbridge). Maybe the fan needs more current than the "system fan" header can provide.

Cheers,

Jan

aphonos · Post by **aphonos** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 12:09 pm

phaedrus wrote:aphonos: I haven't used MBM before, so it will take me a little while to figure out how to log voltages over a length of time with either utility. Is there some way to have MBM collect this information or do I need to watch and write down the information as I see it? When I get good info, I'll post it.

Both the AOpen utility and MBM have the ability to write to a log file. Look for the check box in the configuration for each program.

phaedrus wrote:I also want to see what happens if I fix the voltages for all the fans rather than using the thermally-controlled "Smart Fan" setting in the AOpen utility.

Excellent idea.

phaedrus wrote:Lastly, I still have the problem with my system not being able to perform the "restart" function in Windows. Windows will shut down but my system doesn't power down and then up again and reboot into Windows (XP Pro). I still don't know if this is a PSU problem or a mobo problem. I don't have any problems using the "Turn off" function - the system turns off like it should.

Have you been in the support forum at the AOpen site yet to see if others are having the same problem?

It would be interesting if the new video card fixed all your issues, but since others are having the same issues with the SilenX PSU, I doubt it.

silenx · Post by **silenx** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 1:33 pm

We're not suggesting the PSU does not comply to those ATX specifications or those chipsets that consume more power, there is a possibility the system consumes is drawing too much current from a particular voltage that is causing the problems. Since we have yet to duplicate the problems, we cannot comment any further specifically on the issue.

As for warranty, our current warranty on the current series of SilenX power supplies does not cover shipping & handling, we will however cover the labor and materials cost for inspecting and repairing the power supply as necessary for this particular problem.

aphonos · Post by **aphonos** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 1:53 pm

silenx wrote:We're not suggesting the PSU does not comply to those ATX specifications or those chipsets that consume more power, there is a possibility the system consumes is drawing too much current from a particular voltage that is causing the problems. Since we have yet to duplicate the problems, we cannot comment any further specifically on the issue.

As for warranty, our current warranty on the current series of SilenX power supplies does not cover shipping & handling, we will however cover the labor and materials cost for inspecting and repairing the power supply as necessary for this particular problem.

Okay so you're not suggesting that. Very lawyer-like answer.

To make sure you are not evading my specific questions:
(1) You just said you tested the nForce2 boards and it met your standards, so what difference does it make if these chipsets consume more power?
(2) Does the SilenX 300W or 400W conform to the ATX12V Power Supply form factor v 1.2 and/or 1.3 on which these chipsets/mobos are based?
(3) Do these models and any other model PSU you produce and market, (though you are compliant with ATX Form Factor 2.03 per your website) comply with ATX Form Factor 2.10 (June 2002)??

I don't see anything in any of these systems that suggests that there should not be sufficient power on any of the rails of a spec-compliant 400W PSU.

Those of you with problems with the PSU: I'd get on the phone with silenx.com and make them troubleshoot the issue with you. They may not be able to reproduce the problem in their labs (assuming they are really testing), but the problem is reproducing itself on systems of members of SPCR. There is no reason that this many people should be experiencing the same problem if there is nothing wrong with the PSU.

silenx · Post by **silenx** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 2:19 pm

1. As mentioned before, the higher power consumption might be drawing too much power from the PSU for some of the users using it with that particular chipset.
2. The power supplies conforms to ATX12V Power Supply form factor v1.2.
3. Our current models are compliant with ATX Form Factor 2.03 as stated on our website. Newer models coming in the near future will be ATX Form Factor 2.10 compliant.

We've had quite a few customers but this is the first time anyone has brought up these issues to us. 400w shouldn't have any problems as far as providing power is concerned unless there's absolutely no ventilation at all. Has anyone has similar problems with the 350w model?

aphonos · Post by **aphonos** » Fri Jul 11, 2003 5:37 pm

silenx wrote:1. As mentioned before, the higher power consumption might be drawing too much power from the PSU for some of the users using it with that particular chipset.
2. The power supplies conforms to ATX12V Power Supply form factor v1.2.
3. Our current models are compliant with ATX Form Factor 2.03 as stated on our website. Newer models coming in the near future will be ATX Form Factor 2.10 compliant.

So, users of the above mentioned chipsets should stear away from a silenx PSU until/if you release the new models? Seems like the safe route to me.

silenx wrote:We've had quite a few customers but this is the first time anyone has brought up these issues to us. 400w shouldn't have any problems as far as providing power is concerned unless there's absolutely no ventilation at all. Has anyone has similar problems with the 350w model?

"absolutely no ventilation" You're the one who produced the 14dB (low CFM) fan PSU.

silenx users: troubleshooting #1: Anyone had a chance to try swapping out the fan on the PSU and seeing if that remedies the growling? I know, I know the quiet fan is the whole reason you bought a silenx in the first place and you may have bought a silenx so you wouldn't need to mod a less-expensive fortron, but this would be a good trouble shooting route.

troubleshooting #2: Does the growl go away when you unplug any components such as a HDD and/or optical drive? This would lower the draw on the PSU and put to test silenx's theory that the chipsets draw too much power. Maybe try powering up the PSU with a minimal load of components and see if it growls.

silenx · Post by **silenx** » Fri Jul 11, 2003 6:06 pm

Not to say they must avoid the power supply, as far as the power supply itself is concerned, it is designed to meet the specs of ATX 2.10 of which, the differences between 2.03 and 2.10 are mostly not even related to the power supply itself, however since the units were manufactured before the specifications were released, we have chosen not to label it as such at the time being. Zalman and Nexus units are also listed as ATX 2.03 and that does not mean they will not work for the newer boards.

As for the comment regarding the low CFM fan, how can a fan or a heatsink work without ventilation? We meant it quite literally, the CFM on our units are more than sufficient for everyday use.

As for the growling noise itself, a few of the members here are emailing us separately to share their exact experience with us. We're trying to pinpoint the source of this "growl," and at this time, it does not seem to be the fan at fault but some other noise, quite possibly from the APFC in conjunction with specific configurations.

aphonos · Post by **aphonos** » Fri Jul 11, 2003 7:11 pm

silenx wrote:As for the comment regarding the low CFM fan, how can a fan or a heatsink work without ventilation? We meant it quite literally, the CFM on our units are more than sufficient for everyday use.

I suppose my comment was made mostly out of cynicism. Perhaps I should rather have pointed out that someone is experiencing a problem with voltage on the 12V rail and that same user makes no inference that they have cut off all ventilation to the PSU. IMO, your remark about the ventilation (while an appropriate caveat for your PSUs) seemed irrelevant in this situation.

silenx wrote:As for the growling noise itself, a few of the members here are emailing us separately to share their exact experience with us. We're trying to pinpoint the source of this "growl," and at this time, it does not seem to be the fan at fault but some other noise, quite possibly from the APFC in conjunction with specific configurations.

I hope these users are able to get their issues happily resolved. I would be helpful to report if there are configurations to avoid when using a silenx PSU (even if the cause is a component other than the PSU).

hawkeye1 · Post by **hawkeye1** » Sat Jul 12, 2003 2:57 pm

I contacted SilenX, and we agreed that I would send my 400W back and exchange for a 350W model. I went with the 350W exchange to try to elminate two birds with one stone: a) the churning problem; and b) the PSU whine that is caused by the 400W's APFC. Additionally, according to SilenX's post in this thread, the APFC may also be the cause of my churning problem.

This means several weeks of running my noisy PSU until my 350W model is received from SilenX, and even then no guarantee of success. I'll post back results when my new model is received and installed.

starsky · Post by **starsky** » Sun Jul 13, 2003 9:40 pm

Hi guys, interesting read. The only odd thing I have noticed about my Silenx was when I power off my PC from windows (note not a hard power down, just a Start-Shutdown. I get a high pitched squeel that fades.

Never heard a PSU do that before. Apart from that I am happy as punch so far (1 week), and I have only turned it off twice. Once to redo my cabling, and once to flip my CPU fan for temp testing. I will let you know how it goes over the long haul.

I have had no problems with rails...

Wedge · Post by **Wedge** » Sun Jul 13, 2003 9:50 pm

Starsky,

What is the wattage of your SilenX PSU and does it use active or passive PFC?

Churning SilenX on nForce2 Board

Churning SilenX on nForce2 Board

Re: Churning SilenX on nForce2 Board