Super Tornado review at PCSilencieux.com

dukla2000 · Post by **dukla2000** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 12:19 am

nap_loaf wrote:
Aris wrote:here's an idea. why dont you just put your own 120mm papst fan in it and 7volt it.

end of discussion. now its just as good as any other PSU with a 120mm fan in it and just as quiet if not more so.
1. It costs more
2. It voids the warranty
3. Messier cable arrangement
4. Can't adapt to varying room temperatures and system loads. Sometimes it might not be cool enough, other times it won't be as silent as it could be.

By not using the built in fan controller, you're negating one of the reasons for buying this PSU in the first place.

Aris - when I left it this week I had just the (Yate Loon) in the psu as case fannage and it seemed to be coping. So yes, will probably put in the Papst on the S2FC controller in the long run, starting 5V and running 6V most of its life.

But as per nap_loaf, OK I already voided my warranty when Kostik reported the fan change, but why should I. (Answer cause I am an irritable silence freak which is beyond Seasonic target market

?) And yes it costs: the dream from MikeC's 300W Tornado review was that modest power systems (say 2.5GHz CPU, the 'typical' 90W load jobs) could have a virtually silent psu (and even case fannage with good layout) off-the-shelf. The upside is I will hopefully benefit from near 80% efficiency and other ATX 1.3 features. But whether those are worth the considerable cost (about 7* more!) compared to my (now previous) cheapo with the fan removed is moot.

Aris · Post by **Aris** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 5:07 am

nap_loaf wrote: 1. It costs more
2. It voids the warranty
3. Messier cable arrangement
4. Can't adapt to varying room temperatures and system loads. Sometimes it might not be cool enough, other times it won't be as silent as it could be.

By not using the built in fan controller, you're negating one of the reasons for buying this PSU in the first place.

1. Im willing to pay for a better quality fan. if your not willing to spend a little money on your psu then you shouldnt be shelling out extra money for this PSU anyhow.
2. I think almost every item in my case's warrenty is now void. if your worried about warrenties then buy a dell and never open the case.
3. this is completely false. if you know how and take the time it can actually look better than it did before you started.
4. trust me, a 7volted papst fan is basically inaudible, you wont hear it. I have 3 of them in my system and i cant hear them unless i put my ear right up next to them. and as long as its stable who cares if it heats up a little.

Bri · Post by **Bri** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 9:46 am

Aris wrote:here's an idea. why dont you just put your own 120mm papst fan in it and 7volt it.

end of discussion. now its just as good as any other PSU with a 120mm fan in it and just as quiet if not more so.

This is EXACTUALLY what I did to my noisy 400 tornado and I love the silence it affords me and my family.

I also cut out (used red “M1’s”) the fan grill and added rubber fan mounts. How about that for voiding my warranty?

-Bri

JVM · Post by **JVM** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 9:48 am

Bri wrote:
Aris wrote:here's an idea. why dont you just put your own 120mm papst fan in it and 7volt it.

end of discussion. now its just as good as any other PSU with a 120mm fan in it and just as quiet if not more so.
This is EXACTUALLY what I did to my noisy 400 tornado and I love the silence it affords me and my family.

I also cut out (used red “M1’s”) the fan grill and added rubber fan mounts. How about that for voiding my warranty?

-Bri

That's all well and good but not everyone is so technically inclined.

Bri · Post by **Bri** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 9:55 am

JVM wrote: That's all well and good but not everyone is so technically inclined.

Yes, I agree. It’s a shame that a $100 PSU requires modification to run as advertised. It should be “turn-key” solution for those “not so technically inclined”.

-Bri

Aris · Post by **Aris** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 2:20 pm

i just automatically except the fact that whenever i buy any type of PC product with an air cooling solution that isnt completely passive by default is going to require me to mod my own fan and volt mod it down to a respectible speed. i almost never stick with stock cooling on anything in my PC.

nap_loaf · Post by **nap_loaf** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 4:19 pm

Aris wrote: 1. Im willing to pay for a better quality fan. if your not willing to spend a little money on your psu then you shouldnt be shelling out extra money for this PSU anyhow.
2. I think almost every item in my case's warrenty is now void. if your worried about warrenties then buy a dell and never open the case.
3. this is completely false. if you know how and take the time it can actually look better than it did before you started.
4. trust me, a 7volted papst fan is basically inaudible, you wont hear it. I have 3 of them in my system and i cant hear them unless i put my ear right up next to them. and as long as its stable who cares if it heats up a little.

I'm not personally against swapping PSU fans - I've tried it on my current PSU and plan to do it to my next one. What I disagree with is that you said "end of discussion", because it suggests that a fan swap is suitable for everyone. There are plenty of ways you can mod a system without voiding warranties: undervolting fans, cablegami, suspending drives, etc. People who tinker inside their case still want to get replacements when parts randomly fail, and fail they do!

It's just annoying that an expensive PSU can't work as is. I'd expect a cheap PSU to need some extra spending to make it better, but expensive ones should be good enough already. That's why they're expensive

Kostik · Post by **Kostik** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 5:14 pm

In order to be quiet, a PSU has to be used in a case with decent cooling (that is : a rear exhaust fan). It may seem obvious to the SPCR folks, but most people don't know it, and expect that if they buy a "quiet" PSU, they can replace their low end PSU that had a 50cfm fan with their brand new "low noise" PSU even though they don't have a case fan.

Manufacturers *have* to use a rather high CFM fan in their PSUs, even quiet PSUs, because some people will use them as the only source of airflow in their P4 3.0Ghz rig, and blame the manufacturer if the PSU overheats.

At least I think that's the reason. And that's why they don't use 24cfm Panaflos in PSUs. But I have to admit that they could certainly have found a quieter 32cfm fan for the Super Silencer.

Jan Kivar · Post by **Jan Kivar** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 4:23 am

Kostik wrote:In order to be quiet, a PSU has to be used in a case with decent cooling (that is : a rear exhaust fan). It may seem obvious to the SPCR folks, but most people don't know it, and expect that if they buy a "quiet" PSU, they can replace their low end PSU that had a 50cfm fan with their brand new "low noise" PSU even though they don't have a case fan.

Manufacturers *have* to use a rather high CFM fan in their PSUs, even quiet PSUs, because some people will use them as the only source of airflow in their P4 3.0Ghz rig, and blame the manufacturer if the PSU overheats.

At least I think that's the reason. And that's why they don't use 24cfm Panaflos in PSUs. But I have to admit that they could certainly have found a quieter 32cfm fan for the Super Silencer.

Blame ATX...

Jan

JVM · Post by **JVM** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 7:35 am

Kostik wrote:In order to be quiet, a PSU has to be used in a case with decent cooling (that is : a rear exhaust fan). It may seem obvious to the SPCR folks, but most people don't know it, and expect that if they buy a "quiet" PSU, they can replace their low end PSU that had a 50cfm fan with their brand new "low noise" PSU even though they don't have a case fan.

Manufacturers *have* to use a rather high CFM fan in their PSUs, even quiet PSUs, because some people will use them as the only source of airflow in their P4 3.0Ghz rig, and blame the manufacturer if the PSU overheats.

At least I think that's the reason. And that's why they don't use 24cfm Panaflos in PSUs. But I have to admit that they could certainly have found a quieter 32cfm fan for the Super Silencer.

Interesting thought but I'm somewhat confused. Are you saying that with a rear case fan and a Super Silencer all is relatively quiet, or that regardless of having a case fan the Super Silencer needs a quieter fan?

By the way, why pick on Super Silencer?

What about the proSilence fanless 350W PSU - no PSU fan needed.

Kostik · Post by **Kostik** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 2:59 pm

JVM, what I mean is not exactly that. In order to be quiet a PSU must have a low airflow fan. And manufacturers cannot use a low airflow fan in their PSUs because it might be dangerous, depending on the users setup. So if you are an experienced user, you can choose to swap the fan for a quieter one, because you know what you are doing.

The Super Silencer is a great PSU, with high efficiency and a good fan controller. The Prosilence is expensive and doesn't seem very reliable, and you still need a case fan anyway.

JVM · Post by **JVM** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 4:32 pm

Kostik wrote:JVM, what I mean is not exactly that. In order to be quiet a PSU must have a low airflow fan. And manufacturers cannot use a low airflow fan in their PSUs because it might be dangerous, depending on the users setup. So if you are an experienced user, you can choose to swap the fan for a quieter one, because you know what you are doing.

The Super Silencer is a great PSU, with high efficiency and a good fan controller. The Prosilence is expensive and doesn't seem very reliable, and you still need a case fan anyway.

I am an experienced user, but the only fan swapping I know is exchanging fans like I give you mine and you give me yours and then I get someone to put fan in PSU. Now, case fan is easy, but PSU stuff is not for me.

The ProSilence is not reliable? I really don't know anything about it except that it seems like a good idea. What's the reliability problem with that unit?

Trip · Post by **Trip** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 4:37 pm

coil noise, PSU failures, trouble with RMA

search around the forum, Silentmaxx has a poor reputation. The exception being al bundy who has built a number of PIII systems with it; a few others have had success as well. He thinks there could be problems with the 350W Prosilence running a P4. Perhaps the 420W model that was just made available to the states will perform better.

JVM · Post by **JVM** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 8:06 pm

Trip wrote:coil noise, PSU failures, trouble with RMA

search around the forum, Silentmaxx has a poor reputation. The exception being al bundy who has built a number of PIII systems with it; a few others have had success as well. He thinks there could be problems with the 350W Prosilence running a P4. Perhaps the 420W model that was just made available to the states will perform better.

Thanks for the information. There is an interesting case the SilentMaxx ST-11 but seems like it's not popular for some reason. Do you have any idea why that case is not mentioned here much at all?

Trip · Post by **Trip** » Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:11 am

"The st-11 tower has 2 80mm vent holes in & out but the metalwork needs to be cut away, esp. in the front which is very restrictive." - Mike C

I believe it's b/c of less than optimal airflow, the temperature increase due to the padding, and the vent holes Mike speaks of. Looking through the threads I didn't see any terrible remarks about it and it has had some favorable reviews in Europe. I'll look through the threads more closely tomorrow.

JVM · Post by **JVM** » Fri Dec 19, 2003 4:29 am

Trip wrote:"The st-11 tower has 2 80mm vent holes in & out but the metalwork needs to be cut away, esp. in the front which is very restrictive." - Mike C

I believe it's b/c of less than optimal airflow, the temperature increase due to the padding, and the vent holes Mike speaks of. Looking through the threads I didn't see any terrible remarks about it and it has had some favorable reviews in Europe. I'll look through the threads more closely tomorrow.

I would appreciate any info you can throw my way.

As to the airflow, seems like the Sonata is also kind of restrictive and people are often cutting away some areas in the front; and yet, the Sonata is listed in the second spot of recommended.

I also noticed the favorable reviews in Europe. I found only one reviewer who mentioned the bad ventilation and was very surprised that no one else (reviewer) mentioned that. I even read some threads and people seemed overall to be happy with the case, although there was one site where a poll for recommending the ST-11 was much more for not recommending.

I looked at the Newegg website and read all the comments about the Sonata case and was very surprised at so many people saying how the Sonata had very good airflow and their temps were great. These of course were people talking about the stock Sonata without cutting anything.

silvervarg · Post by **silvervarg** » Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:31 am

I looked at the Newegg website and read all the comments about the Sonata case and was very surprised at so many people saying how the Sonata had very good airflow and their temps were great. These of course were people talking about the stock Sonata without cutting anything.

Looking at how most "normal" people react, that run stock things with no modding at. They probably don't compare there system to anything remotely equivalent, so they will be satisfied with much less than we are.
Also if everything seems fine and also looks good on the outside people tend to be happy. So just the great looks and finish on the Sonata is bound to give it higher points due to subjective judgement.

Also compared to most other systems the Sonata is very good, but it can still be improved. Looking at how much you get for the price you pay I would say that all Antec chassis are rather good.