New fanless Antec 350W PSU

Chris Ochre · Post by **Chris Ochre** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:16 pm

Phantom

Apologies if it's old. It does look very tasty, and also reasonably priced at $169.

chylld · Post by **chylld** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 4:01 pm

looks like a hit
i wonder when it'll be on sale?

bigred · Post by **bigred** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:13 pm

Yeah, that looks great.
I am in the market for another fanless PSU since my SilentMaxx PSU died. Not only did it die, but I RMA'd with the hope of getting a new one. I say hope because its been over 4 months, and I've called their US office so many times that I've lost count and the kicker s that no one ever answers the phone, it just rings and rings. I've left messages but no one ever returns them.

BAH, Im sorry this is off topic. I just needed to vent over my $300 (Can) lost on this purchase...

al bundy · Post by **al bundy** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 12:36 am

If antec-rep is around here I would really like to know when this fanless PSU will become available...

Post by **Ralf Hutter** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 5:34 am

From that pic it looks like all the PSU heatsinks will be internal to the case when the PSU is mounted. That means that all the heat from the PSU will be dumped right into the case and will have to be dealt with. Am I missing something here?

hyperslug · Post by **hyperslug** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:06 am

Ralf Hutter wrote:From that pic it looks like all the PSU heatsinks will be internal to the case when the PSU is mounted. That means that all the heat from the PSU will be dumped right into the case and will have to be dealt with. Am I missing something here?

Nope, from the looks of it you're right on target. That vastly reduces the complication about how to dispose of the overall system heat and makes the PSU-4-heat-evacuation question moot. That throws out all those variables about separate systems for evacuating heat (PSU and case fans) and at what point the PSU will ramp up fan speed making more noise, etc. Isn't this a good thing?

Post by **Ralf Hutter** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:21 am

hyperslug wrote:
Ralf Hutter wrote:From that pic it looks like all the PSU heatsinks will be internal to the case when the PSU is mounted. That means that all the heat from the PSU will be dumped right into the case and will have to be dealt with. Am I missing something here?
Nope, from the looks of it you're right on target. That vastly reduces the complication about how to dispose of the overall system heat and makes the PSU-4-heat-evacuation question moot. That throws out all those variables about separate systems for evacuating heat (PSU and case fans) and at what point the PSU will ramp up fan speed making more noise, etc. Isn't this a good thing?

I wouldn't think it's a good thing to dump all the heat from the CPU into the case. That means you'd need to depend on the case fan to get rid of that extra heat on top of doing it's normal job. Seems like, unless your case fan was already overkill, you'd end up having to increase it's speed to take care of the extra heat. That can't possibly be beneficial to keeping things quiet.

AntecRep · Post by **AntecRep** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:37 am

Right now I don't have a firm ETA on when we'll be releasing the Phantom.

The interneral heatsinks are directly connected to the external casing of the PSU. As far as how well it works in a system I don't really know, cause I haven't been allowed to play with it yet.

AntecRep

hyperslug · Post by **hyperslug** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 8:10 am

Ralf Hutter wrote:I wouldn't think it's a good thing to dump all the heat from the CPU into the case. That means you'd need to depend on the case fan to get rid of that extra heat on top of doing it's normal job. Seems like, unless your case fan was already overkill, you'd end up having to increase it's speed to take care of the extra heat. That can't possibly be beneficial to keeping things quiet.

What if ramping up the case fan a tad was still quieter than running a separate PSU fan? I guess we're sort of getting into the 2 small fans vs 1 large fan issue. Except that this is 2 small fans (1 with it's own thermistor + fanspeed logic, the other with who knows what) vs 1 large fan.

Anyway my point is, I'd rather have all the heat in my system gathered into one area and then figure out how to dissipate it properly from there. This looks like a step in that direction.

Stephen7372 · Post by **Stephen7372** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 9:34 am

I haven't got any extra fans in my pc (other than the psu fan) when I put the psu outside the box it was all very quiet. However, my case was also red hot, godness knows what the extra psu heat would do

chylld · Post by **chylld** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 12:33 pm

hyperslug wrote:Anyway my point is, I'd rather have all the heat in my system gathered into one area and then figure out how to dissipate it properly from there. This looks like a step in that direction.

What happened to watercooled power supplies? silentmaxx used to make one didn't they? as well as some other companies? why were they all taken off the market? Watercooling is imo a perfect example of gathering the heat and only having to dissipate it from one object.

I share the same concerns with ralf. The next system I build must have a silent power supply. Must.

al bundy · Post by **al bundy** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 1:02 pm

AntecRep wrote:Right now I don't have a firm ETA on when we'll be releasing the Phantom...

Thanks for the reply! I'll watch for its release. This looks like a really interesting product to me.

fmah · Post by **fmah** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 12:03 am

Hmmm, was waiting for something like this for my project. Looks good.

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 2:24 am

My 2c....I think this would perform better in a case designed for it, or in a modified DIY project. The top of the PSU with it's large aluminum fins is pretty much wasted in a std setup. If your Antec case had an opening at the top rear that more greatly exposed the PSU to the outside, it would perform better. God knows we don't need another heat-producing item inside the computer.

Tell you what Mr Antec.....send me a sample and I'll modify a case to make this unit more attractive.

hyperslug · Post by **hyperslug** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 4:46 am

Bluefront wrote:God knows we don't need another heat-producing item inside the computer.

I'm getting confused on this issue, so be patient with me.

I'm under the impression that the "another heat-producing item" you're referring to is the PSU, which to my knowledge has always been a heat-producing item and was never anything but that. I take it you mean we don't need one adding to the processor heat, but then again, God knows we don't need another fan inside the computer as well.

chylld made an analogy of centralized heat disposal to water cooling. In essence, the heat is transferred to a liquid medium then disposed of in a single location (radiator). Fans are only needed in one place and only one system needs to be balanced for heat/noise. Likening this to your separate-PSU-fan idea I'd imagine you'd rather have a water cooling system where each heat producing device had its own radiator, fan, pump and water supply.

W/ this new PSU, the air is the medium and although less controlled than water, it can conveniently be disposed of through a single system.

Again, I'm just a newbie trying to understand your pessimism about this fanless PSU.

//edit: more info

Post by **Ralf Hutter** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:38 am

hyperslug wrote:
Bluefront wrote:God knows we don't need another heat-producing item inside the computer.
I'm getting confused on this issue, so be patient with me. I'm under the impression that the "another heat-producing item" you're referring to is the PSU, which to my knowledge has always been a heat-producing item and was never anything but that. I take it you mean we don't need one adding to the processor heat, but then again, God knows we don't need another fan inside the computer as well.

chylld made an analogy of centralized heat disposal to water cooling. In essence, the heat is transferred to a liquid medium then disposed of in a single location (radiator). Fans are only needed in one place and only one system needs to be balanced for heat/noise. Likening this to your separate-PSU-fan idea I'd imagine you'd rather have a water cooling system where each heat producing device had its own radiator, fan, pump and water supply.

W/ this new PSU, the air is the medium and although less controlled than water, it can conveniently be disposed of through a single system.

Again, I'm just a newbie trying to understand your pessimism about this fanless PSU.

//edit: more info

What Bluefront is getting at, and what bothers me about this too is that this fanless Antec PSU is mounted entirely within the case and will be dumping ALL it's heat output into the case, acting as a case heater. There is no good that can possibly come from adding more heat to the inside of a computer case. This PSU seems like a silly idea to me.

A typical PSU is fan cooled and all the heat that it generates (well, most of it) is sucked out of the PSU by the PSU exhaust fan and dumped out the back of the case.

The right way to design a fanless PSU would be to have the heatsinks on the outside of the case (like the ProSilence 350) so the heat produced by the PSU is dumped outside the case, not inside.

Inexplicable · Post by **Inexplicable** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 6:28 am

I have no personal experience on ProSilence but I would guess that it also dumps a fair deal of heat inside the case, even though it has that big heat sink in the back. We also know that the ProSilence isn't really suited for high powered systems, so perhaps a rear heatsink alone simply isn't a viable solution (although I agree that any fanless PSU should have one). I guess we'll just have to wait and see how Antec's offering will perform.

What really makes me happy about this PSU, though, is that Antec is a highly regarded brand and seems to be the one that is available practically everywhere. Their obvious commitment to continue developing innovative silent products is very heartening, even if they still seem to be learning the trade. This has got be a good thing.

einolu · Post by **einolu** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 7:39 am

Would it work if you cut a hole in the top of your case for the heat to rise?

~EO

Stephen7372 · Post by **Stephen7372** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 7:47 am

It may be easier to put the psu outside the case it is easily done if you have a horizontal case, however you would properly need a fan in the case of some sort.

Incidentally the psu looks a lot like the www.deltatronic.de one.

How com deltatronic can use a few heatpipes and a standard size case and make a quiet pc.
Whereas Zalman contraption weighs 25 kg !

http://www.nordichardware.com/nyheter/i ... y=5&id=361

(I wish Deltatronic was a American Company the way the dollar is devaluing it would be really cheap soon!)

AlexHu · Post by **AlexHu** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 8:48 am

Ralf Hutter wrote:What Bluefront is getting at, and what bothers me about this too is that this fanless Antec PSU is mounted entirely within the case and will be dumping ALL it's heat output into the case, acting as a case heater.

If it has long enough cables, we could put the PSU outside the case.

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:44 am

Well if you're going to move the PSU outside the case, you certainly don't have to spend $170. This setup moves the PSU outside the case, and removes the fan as well. You can do this with a $25 PSU.

halcyon · Post by **halcyon** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 1:32 pm

Bluefront,

DIY is almost invariably cheaper, I don't think anybody is trying to argue that.

Regardless, I think there's still a hefty number of people who'd just want a ready-made solution.

Just buy an external PSU with a single wire bunch going to the back of the case, where it is attached to a passive panel (comes with the psu) and splits the various voltage lines to separate wires inside the case.

Neat, removable, works in all standard cases, no modding, no wire mess, just works.

I'd buy such a passive PSU/backplate combo, if it were available, offered enough power and didn't cost an arm and a leg.

lm · Post by lm » Tue Feb 03, 2004 4:02 am

I read somewhere that this PSU is designed for 85% efficiency.
If that is true, then for example for a DC load of 85W, the PSU would generate only 15W of heat, while typical PSU generates 42W. For a DC load of 113W, the PSU would generate 20W, while a typical psu could generate 57W. Typical psu was assumed to be 66% effective.
If that stuff is true and i got my calculations right then this psu would be very good stuff, and also saves in electricity bill. For a 24/7 machine, it would probably soon buy itself back.

Lethal Injection · Post by **Lethal Injection** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 4:12 am

reasonably priced at $169?

lm · Post by lm » Tue Feb 03, 2004 4:14 am

Lethal Injection, you should calculate how soon it would pay itself back in smaller electricity bill, compared to less efficient PSU.

Stephen7372 · Post by **Stephen7372** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 5:45 am

Well in the UK electricity cost about 7p/Kilowatt. (28p/Kwtt in Italy!)
The difference in effeciency is about 20% tops (85-65=20)
A computer uses about 300 watts ?
for 8 hours a day 5 days a week (40hours 50 weeks a year)
2000 hours a year.
2000x300 watts= 600kwatts a year
=£42 cost per year
-20%

Saving is £8.4 per year about £38.8 if you live in Italy(£8.4X4)

It would take about ten years to save the total cost of the power supply !

Sooty · Post by **Sooty** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 7:11 am

Stephen7372 wrote:A computer uses about 300 watts ?
for 8 hours a day 5 days a week (40hours 50 weeks a year)

Not 300w. Probably 100-200W average, depending on use and spec. So say 150w average. So halve that cost saving. Yes, you don't save much, say £21 total if the PSU lasts 5 years. Plus, in the winter, you'll need to turn your rooms central heating up, just a micro fraction, to compensate for your PSU outputting less heat.

Seal · Post by **Seal** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 7:48 am

im quite interested in this antec psu although noticed in the original link that it was only coming out in 350w and 500w, i would have been interested in a mid sized 420ish w fanless psu. Especially after hearing some of the silentmaxx stories.

Rook · Post by **Rook** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 10:03 am

What would be really interesting is if Antec incorporated something like this PSU into a future version of the Sonata case, possibly modified so that the PSU and case are one integrated unit. Now that'd be a true silent solution - a case engineered to run quietly, combined with a fanless PSU!

Kudos to Antec for working toward silence in computing!

Shadowknight · Post by **Shadowknight** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 7:19 am

After looking around Antec's site, I found this link here: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... rld/114355

which says that the 350w PSU should be out in march. They also plan higher powered versions with an emergency fan. 500 and 700(!) watts.

At this rate, in ten years, we'll be buying 1.21 gigawatt PSUs, and wind up going back in time 30 years...