I'm thinking of getting a DiamondMax Plus10 300GB - madness?

luminous · Post by **luminous** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 11:45 am

I've had enough of waiting for the new Seagate 7200.8. I've also been unable to find Nidec 160Gb Samsungs in the UK.

So I was thinking of getting something different. The Maxtor is Storage Reviews current favourite. They reckon its both quick and quiet. Now we know that their standards are not the same as ours. But if I got one of these drives and put it in a SilentMax drive enclosure do I at least stand a chance of having a drive that is as quiet as a pair of 160Gb Samsung Nidecs?

halcyon · Post by **halcyon** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:04 am

I was contemplating the same as you.

Then I read comments on the noise in various forums and decided against it (yes I know, very unscientific).

But the truth is that 300MB Maxtor is currently about the only game in town, if you want that big size. I mean, I still wouldn't touch the thermally calibrating Hitachi drives with a 5 meter pole, regardless of how quiet people SR forums think they are

So, you're choice is double 160GB, that Maxtor or wait for Seagate 7200.8 to start shipping towards the end of the year (or early next).

luminous · Post by **luminous** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:44 am

Yeah, I thought that someone may say that. Its nearly all down to luck, which is just not fair.

Sometimes you but a drive and its a really good one, other times its not. The realy pain, is when you get a noisey drive ppl just laugh at you when you want to return it......

Ppl hate Western Digital here, but my 120Gb model is nearly inaudible. Now its in my drive enclosure it is the only perfect drive in this house. Fast, and silent, although the whole drive enclosure has to be suspended.

mathias · Post by **mathias** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:42 am

luminous wrote:Yeah, I thought that someone may say that. Its nearly all down to luck, which is just not fair.

Couldn't agree more, I really hate the hard drive lottery.

luminous · Post by **luminous** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:58 pm

But that is one good thing about WD. Unless they have changed things you can RMA a drive for any reason and get a different drive back. Thats a really good RMA policy that allows you to return a really noisey one.

Problem is of course, most WDs are noisey, you have to be really lucky to get a good one.

Tobias · Post by **Tobias** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:43 pm

halcyon wrote:Then I read comments on the noise in various forums and decided against it (yes I know, very unscientific).

okey, it may be unscientific, but the question is if it is a way of telling about the noice of a harddrive, albeit a very crude way. I mean, we all know how much nocie the computer can generate for the harddrive to be noticable. Everyone have not come as far as i.e. MikeC on the quest for a nice and quiet computer, but if one is so far along the path that adding a harddrive will substantially (well, noticably, at least) increase the noice of the system it is either a very quiet system or a very loud drive.

Either way, silence is the goal and if the disc will be easily noticed in a system that may or may not be close to silent it doesn't really matter does it? No matter what, an SPCR rig will be geared towards silence and we just concluded that in the best case scenario, the drive will be noticable in a quiet system. Worst case scenario is that the drive will be noticable in a "delta"-system....

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 3:52 pm

I'd say that it is an economic question too. The 300 GB Seagate is about 50 % more expensive than the 300 GB Maxtor at the same store, both SATA (www.shg.biz). This will of course change in time, but you don't want to wait so it doesn't matter. I'd probably go for a Maxtor if I had to buy one today.
I do believe that some of us here are willing to pay the extra money for a low noise HD, but is that what we get?
We still got the big question: How noisy is the 7200.8?

luminous · Post by **luminous** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:45 am

Yes, very good point Mats. Just how noisey will the 7200.8 be? Will it be like Samsung, with some samples being quiet and others being a lot louder.

I'd also agree with a lot of what Tobias said. But for me, its not really the amount of noise, but the type. I like to minimise all noise, but its the none constant whines or deep rumbles that bug me. Case resonance, and drive whine being my main bug bears. More than once I have found myself turning a fan up to mask something like this, just until I manage to find a better solution

The Maxtor is really tempting, I'm really trying to hold on for the new Seagates to see what they will be like. I've been waiting so long though........ Maybe if I put a Seagate on my Christmas list it will appear in my stocking. Failing that there will be a Maxtor in there

Bitter Jitter · Post by **Bitter Jitter** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 7:18 am

Having owned my Samsung drive for over a year now i can tell you, there is no way i would choose another drive which hasn't been tested by SPCR first!
I believe overclockers uk sell the NIDEC's motor drives from what people have been saying on here, though don't hold me to that as i brought mine elsewhere when they were all made with that motor

.

JohnMK · Post by **JohnMK** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 9:45 am

If you decouple the Maxtor Maxline III or Diamondmax 10 I doubt the noise is a real issue. I say this after having a Raptor 10,000 rpm drive in my system a week ago, and being generally pleased with its low noise output.

luminous · Post by **luminous** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:17 am

Overclockers have stopped selecting Nidec motors at people's request

I tried them earlier......

Ragnarok · Post by **Ragnarok** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:04 pm

I do have one.

It's a decent HD that can be silent once you have figgured out how to set the Acustic management, it sounds pritty horrific like a grinder ir a garbage disposal untill you do . i did it was an old util that only work in win98 but it worked. i forget whats it's called. whatever it was its no longer sold old you will only be able to find a trial version or find a cracked version on warez sites.

The only real downside this drive does get quite warm compaired to it's predecessors. though any reasonable system should be able to keep it with in operating temp specs.

lenny · Post by **lenny** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:12 pm

Please do more research on your own, but I've come across some reports in a forum (specifically, MSI's forums - look for a thread about BIOS 1.41 beta) that said the Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 10 SATA may have trouble with NForce 3 RAID BIOS.

Needless to say (but I'll say it anyway) I'm not sure if it affects other RAID BIOS or non RAID situations (although I would assume not).

lenny · Post by **lenny** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:25 pm

Ragnarok wrote:The only real downside this drive does get quite warm compaired to it's predecessors. though any reasonable system should be able to keep it with in operating temp specs.

This may be a trouble for luminous since he is considering putting the drive in an enclosure.

Do you have temp readings of this drive and its predecessors (I'm assuming you mean DiamondMax 9)? They're not known for running cool.

luminous · Post by **luminous** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 2:13 pm

Oh

, bugger. Life is never easy is it ??

Speaking of life. I've recently got my, wait for it, 3rd Asus A78nX-Deluxe Rev 2 mobo. This one is not capable of producing any sound. Nothing out of either analog or digital. The first one died due to coil whine issues around the AGP slot, the second ones ATA controller died.

I thought Asus was meant to be a good make?? Looks like my HDD choice is on hold until I get another mobo. I'm not waiting for an Asus replacement this time. It took them 9 weeks, yes NINE to send this one to me.....*sigh*

Ragnarok · Post by **Ragnarok** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:13 am

lenny wrote:
Ragnarok wrote:The only real downside this drive does get quite warm compaired to it's predecessors. though any reasonable system should be able to keep it with in operating temp specs.
This may be a trouble for luminous since he is considering putting the drive in an enclosure.

Do you have temp readings of this drive and its predecessors (I'm assuming you mean DiamondMax 9)? They're not known for running cool.

Actualy yea. according to the smart data the DM10 a good 5-9°C warmer in my elastic suspention + 5 v 8cm fan setup than my 120GB 8mb cache DM9. it feels slightly warmer too but not much.

It'll have to be a pritty good enclusure to conduct the heat out the box anyway.

But even in an elatic suspemtion system it's pritty inaudible as long as you have set tha AMM to quiet you won't hear the seeks unless it's you stick your ear right next to it.

luminous · Post by **luminous** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 4:45 am

I'm generally not that bothered about seek noise. Its the idle whine that really gets to me. If the drive does not have that, then its a good option

Edward Ng · Post by **Edward Ng** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 7:01 am

Sort of on topic...

I've got a pair of 6B200M0 coming in tomorrow. I'll report on my experiences with them when I get a chance.

Oh, right, for those that are not Maxtor model number inclined, they're 200GB SATA DiamondMax 10 drives.

-Ed

luminous · Post by **luminous** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 10:44 am

Cool, it will be nice to know how you get along with those. I've just managed to work out that my Silentmax drive enclosures are not compatibile with my case.

I've also worked out that the screws they supplied do not screw into the lugs that they supplied. It may sound like a small problem, but it just caused three hours of total grief when the drive got stuck in my machine. I'll be onto their tech support tomorrow.....

ao · Post by ao » Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:07 pm

Edward Ng wrote:Sort of on topic...

I've got a pair of 6B200M0 coming in tomorrow. I'll report on my experiences with them when I get a chance.

Oh, right, for those that are not Maxtor model number inclined, they're 200GB SATA DiamondMax 10 drives.

-Ed

Hi Ed and all,

I've been perusing the SPCR forums the past few days looking for information on the acoustics of the Diamondmax 10's, and this posting is pretty much all I've found. I'm in a position where I'm going to need to pick up a large drive (>200 gb) in the pretty near future to go in the system with my aged barracuda IV's. I'm ok with seek noise, but idle noise is an absolute deal-breaker for me. Is there any chance you've had even half a second to plug drives in and get a feel for them, or can anyone else who might have one of these models speak to their idle noise?

Any impressions at all of this drive, however subjective or brief, would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks so much,
ao

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:15 pm

From the few comments I've seen about the Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 IDE it surely looks good when it comes to low noise. Check the forum at Storagereview.com

ao · Post by ao » Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:33 pm

Mats wrote:From the few comments I've seen about the Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 IDE it surely looks good when it comes to low noise. Check the forum at Storagereview.com

Price is still awfully steep, though, and I trust comments about quiet drives from people in this forum a lot more than I trust them in that one. I'm certainly open to the 7200.8, but would only probably wait around for them to drop in price if someone here were to post that the maxtor diamondmax 10's simply couldn't be considered quiet.

-ao

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:10 pm

ao wrote:Price is still awfully steep, though, and I trust comments about quiet drives from people in this forum a lot more than I trust them in that one. I'm certainly open to the 7200.8, but would only probably wait around for them to drop in price if someone here were to post that the maxtor diamondmax 10's simply couldn't be considered quiet.

I wouldn't say that 250 USD is awfully steep for a new HD model with 400 GB.
I get your point about trusting SPCR people more, but what difference does it make if BFG9000, Bish or micnn @ SR joins SPCR, is that suddently a guarantee for their knowledge about low noise? Of course not.

What I'm trying to say is that those three persons say that the 7200.8 is low noise and that is more info than I've got from SPCR forum. Even if they're wrong, I'd say it's worth waiting a couple of weeks buying a new HD until we know more, just because of their posts. If they said that the 7200.8 was noisy then I wouldn't have to wait, I could just look for alternatives immediately. The fact that it only have three platters makes it interesting and unique, and it's good for reliability.

Petr · Post by **Petr** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 5:43 am

I have two DiamondMax 10 drives 200GB each in RAID1 (two 100GB platters per drive). It's idle noise is comparable to Hitachi 7K250 / Seagate 7200.7 drives, little high pitch. Samsung P80 (NIDEC) are quieter, at least when they are new.

Seek is clearly audiable but if you turn on AAM, it is inaudiable. Performance is OK even with AAM enabled. The drive has nearly no vibration at all and doesn't perform recalibration like Hitachi does.

tmod · Post by **tmod** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:40 am

NewEgg has the 300GB 7200.8 8MB IDE for $195.00 now.

ao · Post by ao » Sun Dec 12, 2004 11:18 am

I wouldn't say that 250 USD is awfully steep for a new HD model with 400 GB.
I get your point about trusting SPCR people more, but what difference does it make if BFG9000, Bish or micnn @ SR joins SPCR, is that suddently a guarantee for their knowledge about low noise? Of course not.

Your point is well taken, but I had actually somehow missed BFG9000's posts on SR forums. His are the only ones that seem to give context to his comments that they're quiet, or at least enough that it gives me confidence that his standards are similar to mine. Thanks for pointing them out.

You're also right that $250 USD doesn't seem outrageous for a 400 gb drive, but where do you see those prices? I see that they're 280 + tax at compusa, unless there are rebates lurking around that I haven't seen. All of the other standard online stores are way more expensive than that.

Petr -- thanks for the noise comparison. And just to clarify, when you say 'little high pitch', do you mean there's not much high pitch noise, or that it has a little bit of a high pitch whine? I can read it both ways. Sorry to be pedantic.

Petr · Post by **Petr** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 11:51 am

It has some high pitch whine. I think it is comparable to Hitachi 7K250, eg. not the most silent drive but still acceptable if you don't want to sleep directly to it. You don't have any other choice anyway as Samsung is 160GB at most and all other HDDs have some sort of this noise. SATA Seagate 7200.7+ (that I consider the best idle noise performer except Samsung) had horrible seek noise (and no AAM support!) and I don't know of any large drive that doesn't have high pitch whine. But to be honest, my older 80GB two platter Barracuda IV si quieter than 7200.7.

From other large drives, there is 7200.8 (I haven't experience with it), Hitachi 7K250 that ends at 250GB, Hitachi 7K400 with 5 (!!!) platters or the DiamondMax 10 / MaxLine III series. I was told Seagate has problems with platter moving motors that get significantly noisier in time, Maxtor has now the highers RMA rate and Hitachi drives sometimes experience some unexpectable failures due to damage while being transported. So in my opinion it is best to get RAID1 of any of those drives and put them in Silentmaxx HD-Case (this really makes difference in HDD noise). But it will cost you much.

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:21 pm

ao wrote:You're also right that $250 USD doesn't seem outrageous for a 400 gb drive, but where do you see those prices? I see that they're 280 + tax at compusa, unless there are rebates lurking around that I haven't seen. All of the other standard online stores are way more expensive than that.

Provantage.com sells them for 239 USD, Compusa.com 280 USD - 25 USD rebate this week I think, not sure. These are the few I've seen at all, and someone at SR said that he had seen prices around 250 USD in five stores so I just believed him. I just got the feeling that if you look around you'll find them. When it comes to taxes I have no idea, I just assumed that they were included, sorry about that.

Edward Ng · Post by **Edward Ng** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:52 pm

Because the drives were for a computer necessary for business, I didn't get much time to really put them through my battery of performance and listening tests, but I will definitely say this much: Two 6B200M0 in RAID 0 are quieter, in terms of both, seeks and idle whine, than Three 6Y060L0 in RAID 0. Unfortunately, it appears that they may run warmer, but then it's a bit of an unfair comparison, two-platter drives against single-platter drives. This is a good sign though, when considering the drop in noise.

-Ed

EDIT: Btw this array is backed up to an external drive on a weekly basis, so no, I'm not risking the important data with RAID 0.

acaurora · Post by **acaurora** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:54 pm

I wouldn't recommend the Maxtor DiamondMax 10s, I tested the 300 GB model, housed in the OneTouch II in my comparison here with the 1st generation.

It proved to be louder and had more vibration than the 1st gen. However, my results seem to conflict with Ed's results in terms of noise. Not sure exactly what that equates though.