Funny that u guys feel a need for RUBBER FEET / SUSPENSION +

BOOGS · Post by **BOOGS** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:29 am

I am no expert*** , but , I have my DM10 normally fixed onto the drive bay, hard mounted, and I get no seek noise at all ( drive set to quiet mode )

Im not pushing the DM10, all I am saying, is that I have 2 of these drives, and cant hear no noise at all from them....

so why bother with all the feet, rubber band suspension, etc etc, when u can just get a DM10 ? ( or any other silent drive - that YOU know of , I cant recommend what I dont know about )

also, why all the worry about drive heat ? if it was so critical, why dont the manufacturers make any real mention of it ? doesnt seem it is a problem

i have both my drives, mounted on the standard bay, and have no idea what the temp is, but who cares ?

drives are working properly, and manufacturers are happy for people to mount them in standard pc bays, so it seems silly to be concerned about it , ESPECIALLY if youre looking for a quiet system

***Experts :- there are 2 kinds of expert;

1) Those that think they know
2) Those that don't know, that they dont know

chylld · Post by **chylld** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:44 am

a lot of people have higher standards for silence. what you consider quiet, i may consider 'insanely loud'

it's merely a preferences thing. you may not be able to hear your hard drives over the other noises coming from your computer, but other people can. that is why people bother to decouple/otherwise silence their hard drives.

i worry about my hard drive temps because i've already had two hdd failures. both times, the hdd was insufficiently cooled. both times, i lost all the data on the drives. it happened because i didn't make sure the hard drives received sufficient cooling. if one of your hard drives fails because you didn't ensure it received proper cooling, get your own tissue.

any more questions?

BOOGS · Post by **BOOGS** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:01 am

Yes, then why dont all you guys perform measured tests, with dB meters....

after all , you say 'silent' is only a percieved term, so clearly, no one can judge anybody elses statements.....

of course, you could be incorrect, and silent, does actually mean silent, as in , inaudible....

besides, does it really matter, if product ABCDEF, is actually NOT TOTALLY SILENT, but its still the MOST silent product in its category ?

clearly isnt that the point of recommending a product, thats its the best in its class ?

you can suffer a HD failure, at any time, backups are the key to safe data storage..........

most drives come with 3 years warranty, some even 5...........so who cares of they die of heat failure in 2 years ? or 4 ?

by then, you can buy a drive at least 4 times as big, faster, for the same or less cash

only my opinion

dont shoot me !

RachelG · Post by **RachelG** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:09 am

I have 2 of these drives, and cant hear no noise at all from them....

In that case you must be able to hear some noise...

(Sorry, BOOGS. I just couldn't resist that

)

Anyway, let me give you my utterly non-expert experience. I had a Samsung hard drive mounted normally in my case. It was extremely quiet during seeks, but there was a definite continuous low frequency noise clearly being caused by transmission of vibration to the case. I solved it by sitting the hard drive on some sorbothane.

As a fellow non-expert, I think you have to accept (as chylld basically says) that different people hear different things, and that's the way the world is!

Before I go, I just wanted to briefly take you up on your definitions of an expert. Surely an expert, by definition, has expertise above and beyond the normal in a particular area. What you are describing is really people who think they are experts, but aren't really.

chylld · Post by **chylld** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:13 am

we don't all perform measured tests because we don't all have dB meters.

if product ABCDEF is not totally silent, but is still the most silent in its category, then yes it is worth recommending. we bother with dB readings (for reviews) because we recognise that most products (or most categories, rather) cannot be absolutely silent.

i do perform regular backups now.

i prefer my hard drives not to crash. even if they're replaced by warranty, it's a hassle i'd rather avoid by spending a few more dollars to cool it better. and if i can avoid buying new drives in the future, then all the better

BOOGS · Post by **BOOGS** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:25 am

some good points, SO happy that this didnt turn into a shooting match.......(yet ! )

yeah, Ive had HD failures in the past, in fact, I would say they all pretty much lose their attributes after 2-3 years.......bearings wear out, etc etc

Id like to keep them cooler, but that would require a fan, and thus extra noise............my point really way, why arent the manufacturers more specific about the cooling requirements ? it sounds like they are happy that the drives are mounted on standard pc bays, with no additionaly cooling ?

oh - the 'experts' thing, was supposed to be a joke, ( of kind ) yeah, it wasnt brilliant, just something I heard on the tv recently.....

and why must 2 drives have 'some' noise ? I cant hear anything from them at all...........and im not deaf or anything ! Im talking about the sound level with case CLOSED...........no noise at all

there is only 1 other fan in my pc, the cpu fan, and thats running very quietly

so WHAT IS quiet ?

to me, quiet means, unobtrusive, you have to pay attention to hear it, to identify it.....................

now, if anyone has ever heard an X BOX at work, then you will know what ISNT QUIET !!!!!

or try 5 mins with a network server !!!!!

chylld · Post by **chylld** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:35 am

i don't blame you for thinking this could turn into a shooting match. pc silence is a grey area that many do not understand / want to understand - if we can help you (and others) understand it, then all the better!

manufacturers are fine with their products dying after their warranty period - this doesn't apply to just hard drives. imagine if every hard drive lasted forever.. their revenue would certainly go down, wouldn't it?

cooling an hdd requires very little airflow. i'm using a single low-speed 80mm fan at 7 volts to cool all of my 3 drives. their temps are 35, 37 and 37 degrees as i type this.

the word 'quiet' has the same meaning to me - unobtrusive. obviously if the sound your computer makes is unobtrusive, that is quiet for you. to me, if i can't hear it even when i'm trying to pay attention to hear it, that's 'silent'. not 0dB silent, but "i wouldn't know if it's on or not just by listening" silent.

and an xbox is very loud yes

Bitter Jitter · Post by **Bitter Jitter** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:05 am

This is all about perceptions. You perceive a DM10 to be silent but others may not.
The other issue which alot of people find when starting out on silencing is they think they know what’s causing all the noise. They change that item and are surprised when the general noise level of there computer doesn't drop. I'm guilty of it, as i'm sure many people on here are.

Also the word 'Silent' is used far too often in the wrong manner. Silent is no noise, it is below background noise and is thus impossible for YOU to hear. Quiet, is as you both said unobtrusive. My suspended Spinpoint hard drive is not silent, it is quiet because there is no high pitch noise, no vibration noise but I can still hear it, because when I have disconnected it, there is an absence of a noise which the computer normally makes.

BOOGS wrote:so why bother with all the feet, rubber band suspension, etc etc, when u can just get a DM10 ? ( or any other silent drive - that YOU know of , I cant recommend what I don’t know about )

I found the main problem was vibration, my hard drive made my case vibrate. I paid £1.50 for some elastic and my seek noise disappeared and the vibrations along with it. Now my computer makes no noise which i consider to be obtrusive, just a gentle low frequency wooosh noise. I like to think it was the best £1.50 i have ever spent but of course if something else had been louder i wouldn't have noticed it much.

Mr_Smartepants · Post by **Mr_Smartepants** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:12 am

HDD manufacturers have their own 'claims' about the db ratings. Some use 'A' weighted dbA numbers, some use raw db numbers, some use Sone numbers (EU). They all try to quantify the noise output of their products in such a way to increase their marketability. The only TRUE way to compare noise levels for any product class would be to test multiple samples of identical items against like items in the SAME environment under the SAME operating conditions. Not an easy task to be sure. MikeC and the SPCR crew do their best though (and a damn fine job if you ask me!)

As to 'experts', there are in fact two types:
'self-proclaimed experts' to which your rules above apply.
and.
'peer-recognized experts' to which there is no arguments as to their status.

HDDs have different rotational speeds.
5400 RPM drives spin 5400 times per minute (RPM) and 90 times per second so they have a natural harmonic resonance of 90 Hz.
7200 RPM drives spin 7200 times per minute (RPM) and 120 times per second so they have a natural harmonic resonance of 120 Hz.
Faster drives have a higher pitch harmonic.
Average human hearing ranges from 20 - 20000 Hz. People start to lose their hearing starting in their early teens. By the time you reach your thirties, your hearing range has dropped (on average) to 100 - 15000 Hz.

So someone with outstanding hearing would be able to pick up the low vibrational resonance of their HDDs with no problem. Others wouldn't be able to hear it through tone-deafness.

Once I quieted my PC down to the point that I could clearly hear my Maxtor drive, suspending it was my only (successful) option.

Your mileage may vary.

Techno Pride · Post by **Techno Pride** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:22 am

surely there's no need to post 2 threads within 9min of each othre just to promote the DM10?

many of us can't do measured tests because we don't have the equipment.

It is often easier (and cheaper) just to say Product A is more quiet than Product B because <reasons> rather than A= xx db and B= xx db.

EDIT:

I remember this BOOGS guy used to mention that he uses an AMD64 stock fan

in this thread, he mentions that the cpu fan is quiet.

Bitter Jitter · Post by **Bitter Jitter** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:55 am

BOOGS why have you created so many pro Maxtor DiamondMax 10 threads?

thanks ! Diamond Max 10 - super quiet drive it is indeed..

DIAMONDMAX 10 - This drive is a diamond, QUIET + V FAST !!!

Verdict: DIAMONDMAX 10 Sata ............ TOTALLY SILENT

re:SPCR Recommended HD list. NEEDS UPDATING !!!!!!

It's not going to help your creditability in the long run.

Don't get me wrong, i'm happy your happy with your hard drive, but making so many claims, which are based solely on your opinion is likely to make you a target for abuse. Although i have never met any childish abusive members on this forum.

IsaacKuo · Post by **IsaacKuo** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:26 am

I have a 40gig Maxtor which I had always thought was "silent"...until I put it in a reasonably quiet system (nothing else competing to make noise but a 120mm Fortron 350). Then I noticed it had a very annoying high pitched whine, audible and disturbing from across the room!

Honestly, sometimes the least objectionable solution to high pitched drive whine is to smother it with a noisy lower pitched noise source.

m0002a · Post by **m0002a** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 8:16 am

If your drive is set to quiet mode, it is not performing as fast as would otherwise be the case.

I first got into figuring out how to provide better hard drive isolation when my 5.5 year-old IBM drives, and my 2 year-old WD drives, were making very annoying noises. I didn’t see the need to purchase new drives and reinstall my software if I could quiet the drives I already had (5 drives in total). One of my WD drives vibrated so much, I am sure it is illegal to sell it in Alabama.

But even for new systems, if the rest of your system is quiet, then you normally can hear even the quietest drives if mounted directly on a metal drive cage.

One thing we have all learned on this forum is that once you fix a noise problem, you find out that you have other noise problems that were not evident before. This is especially true if you use a more powerful processor or video card that generates a lot of heat, and needs a lot of air movement (fans) to keep them cool. So if you system is not otherwise silent, that might be one reason you can’t hear your disk drives.

But these things are a matter of judgment of how much time and money one should expend for the desired result. Some people are also interested in what the Japanese call Kaizen (continuous improvement). No matter how good you think it is, it can always be made better.

It is also evident that some of the ideas and suggestions in this forum have made their way into mass produced products.

sthayashi · Post by **sthayashi** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 8:56 am

It is considered traditional amongst moderators to lock a thread when it is realized that nothing good can come from it.

Consider it locked.