Hey folks.
I'm thinking of using a Areca ARC 1220. (I understand the fan on the adapter is removable and you could replace it with a nice heatsink)
Anyway I'd run RAID 5, with 3 500GB SATA II drives. So that is either:
Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 ST3500641AS
HITACHI Deskstar 7K500 0A31619
So my question is...
Am I crazy? Will the noise of 3 of these HD's in a P180 be really bad?
Quiet Raid?
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee
I was running a six drive array with a 3ware card a while back, built from Seagata ATA 7200.7s and it was fine. Elastic suspended, with a single Panaflo 92mm fan at 4.5V to cool.
I am planning on getting an Areca card too, an 8 port model with PCI-e. For RAID5 performance, especially as a file server, they can't be beat.
Consider this though. If you can afford it, more than three drives might be an option. Assuming you are not going for zero noise (if you were you wouldn't want more than one drive), adding more idential HDs will not increase the noise that much. Two HDs are not twice as loud as one, sound does not work that way.
In RAID 5, the more drives you have, the better the ratio of usable space to parity data becomes.
I am planning on getting an Areca card too, an 8 port model with PCI-e. For RAID5 performance, especially as a file server, they can't be beat.
Consider this though. If you can afford it, more than three drives might be an option. Assuming you are not going for zero noise (if you were you wouldn't want more than one drive), adding more idential HDs will not increase the noise that much. Two HDs are not twice as loud as one, sound does not work that way.
In RAID 5, the more drives you have, the better the ratio of usable space to parity data becomes.
That was my plan too, start with a 3x200GB RAID 5 array, get everything installed and working, then move the two 200GB drives from my old machine into the new one and expand 
One other thing I forgot to mention though, lower capacity drives with fewer platters tend to be quieter, so that is something to consider.
One other thing I forgot to mention though, lower capacity drives with fewer platters tend to be quieter, so that is something to consider.
The biggest risk with the hardware RAID solution is the failure of the RAID card. Then you're dead in the water, especially if the card is older.
The other problem is driver support... I'm going to build a RAID 5 array as well, but I've decided to got with software based RAID only. With today's processors, it takes up very little CPU, and you won't have to worry about any hardware failures rendering your whole array useless.
The other problem is driver support... I'm going to build a RAID 5 array as well, but I've decided to got with software based RAID only. With today's processors, it takes up very little CPU, and you won't have to worry about any hardware failures rendering your whole array useless.
My 3ware card developed a fault, and 3ware replaced it within a few days. The new card was a later model, but all major RAID manufacturers support moving RAID arrays from older cards to newer ones. So, even out of warrantee, you can just buy another card from the same company.gbeichho wrote:The biggest risk with the hardware RAID solution is the failure of the RAID card. Then you're dead in the water, especially if the card is older.
Having said that, HDDs fail far more often than RAID cards do.
Areca cards have dual redundant BIOS chips too, just in case a ROM update fails.
Areca cards support Windows 32 and 64 bit, Linux, FreeBSD and a few others. If you use a software RAID, you are tied to one OS. Dual-booting, or using a live CD to rescue data is a real problem. Also, tools like Norton Ghost and Partition Magic don't support most software RAIDs, so you can't use those either. A hardware RAID uses BIOS hooks to support these kinds of tools (I use Ghost at work with a crappy on-board Promise RAID all the time).gbeichho wrote:The other problem is driver support... I'm going to build a RAID 5 array as well, but I've decided to got with software based RAID only. With today's processors, it takes up very little CPU, and you won't have to worry about any hardware failures rendering your whole array useless.
Another thing to consider is that a dedicated RAID card will usually have cache memory, and be far better optimised for performance than software RAID.
One thing occoured to me, as a question for spiffy102.
When you get your RAID card, could you take a look and see if the heatsink is a similar size and has similar mountings to a northbridge chip? The reason I ask is that the heatsink Areca supply is rather small, designed not to cover the PCI slot below. However, if that slot isn't in use, it should be possible to fit a larger northbridge heatsink, such as a Zalman.
When you get your RAID card, could you take a look and see if the heatsink is a similar size and has similar mountings to a northbridge chip? The reason I ask is that the heatsink Areca supply is rather small, designed not to cover the PCI slot below. However, if that slot isn't in use, it should be possible to fit a larger northbridge heatsink, such as a Zalman.
It could be another month....MoJo-chan wrote: When you get your RAID card, could you take a look and see if the heatsink is a similar size and has similar mountings to a northbridge chip? The reason I ask is that the heatsink Areca supply is rather small, designed not to cover the PCI slot below. However, if that slot isn't in use, it should be possible to fit a larger northbridge heatsink, such as a Zalman.
I emailed Areca - they confirmed the card does come with a passive HS to replace the active one - providing you have decent case cooling.
Still not "sold" on RAID5. I want it - but not sure if it is worth the noise penalty - as well as cost.
Ah, in that case, I may get one before you anyway!
I am planning to have one before xmas, so I can put a machine together over that period. Festive spirit? Bah, humbug!
Well, I am planning on getting an SLI board and using one slot for a PCI-e graphics card (water cooled) and the other for the RAID. I am going to make a five drive RAID 5 array. I will take my two current Seagate 7000.8s and add three Samsung Spinpoint 200G drives. I know it's best not to mix drive types, but oh well.
Having said that, I have a couple of Silent Drive 2002 enclosures I'm going to fit over the weekend. If they don't quieten the Seagates enough, I may just get five Samsung drives. Expensive, but probably worth it I think. My current PC has lasted me three and a half years (XP2100, I don't play games much).
One thing I'm looking into is a SATA backplane. The reason is that with a backplane, you can use staggered spin-up for drives. I have a Nexus 4090, which should cope but then again five drives, a 4200+ CPU and a reasonable graphics card could be pushing it all at once.
I am planning to have one before xmas, so I can put a machine together over that period. Festive spirit? Bah, humbug!
Well, I am planning on getting an SLI board and using one slot for a PCI-e graphics card (water cooled) and the other for the RAID. I am going to make a five drive RAID 5 array. I will take my two current Seagate 7000.8s and add three Samsung Spinpoint 200G drives. I know it's best not to mix drive types, but oh well.
Having said that, I have a couple of Silent Drive 2002 enclosures I'm going to fit over the weekend. If they don't quieten the Seagates enough, I may just get five Samsung drives. Expensive, but probably worth it I think. My current PC has lasted me three and a half years (XP2100, I don't play games much).
One thing I'm looking into is a SATA backplane. The reason is that with a backplane, you can use staggered spin-up for drives. I have a Nexus 4090, which should cope but then again five drives, a 4200+ CPU and a reasonable graphics card could be pushing it all at once.
A backplane is a PCB that sits behind the hard drive cage. It has multiple connectors (interface and/or power) soldered on it for each drive.
Usually a backplane is built to accomodate 4-8 drives that use the same interface (SATA, IDE, SCSI, etc.). The biggest benefit for the backplane is that you can place the hard drive into a tray that easily slides in and out of the hard drive cage...basically that's called "hot-swapping" and it is useful for getting drives in and out of servers and storage systems that are stacked up in racks.
Usually a backplane is built to accomodate 4-8 drives that use the same interface (SATA, IDE, SCSI, etc.). The biggest benefit for the backplane is that you can place the hard drive into a tray that easily slides in and out of the hard drive cage...basically that's called "hot-swapping" and it is useful for getting drives in and out of servers and storage systems that are stacked up in racks.
Yep, but only if you have a backplanespiffy102 wrote:Areca 1220 supports staggered spin-up...
As revolt goes on to explain, a backplane has multiple drive connectors. Because it has power connectors which can be individually switched, it is possible to turn each drive on and off in software, thus allowing staggered spin-up.
Other nice features of backplanes are things like built-in LCDs, hot-swap for SCSI (although many SATA drives support it anyway), temperature management (again, SATA has it), error lights etc.
To be honest, since I want to suspend the drives, I'd have to hack the backplane somehow to allow this. Or, maybe it's not too hard to make a backplane... or at least a device to do automatic staggered spin-up. Really, all you need is a microprocessor, some optoisolators and a bit of breadboard...
Hi, RE drive spin up power. Storage Review (SR) have done some testing of HDD power consumption, including maxima at spin up time. See here. The 5V line varies from 3w to 5w so is not very significant, the 12V line varies from 15w to 30w.
With the set-up you mention worst case is 100w each for CPU and graphics, add 5 HDDs at 30w and you have 350w. This is stating to be quite close but any good quality PSU should have no problem delivering its rated load, and for the few seconds of spinning the drives up, probably, well beyond it. There is, of course, also the issue of power distribution across the rails. Looking at the specs for the Nexus 4090 shows max of 15A on each 12v line, 15A+15A = 30A*12V = 360w so it shouldn't be a problem. I also note the over current protection (duration not listed) is set at 45A for each 12v line.
Of course this is all theoretical and what happens in reality is what matters but I think it would be fine.
Seb
With the set-up you mention worst case is 100w each for CPU and graphics, add 5 HDDs at 30w and you have 350w. This is stating to be quite close but any good quality PSU should have no problem delivering its rated load, and for the few seconds of spinning the drives up, probably, well beyond it. There is, of course, also the issue of power distribution across the rails. Looking at the specs for the Nexus 4090 shows max of 15A on each 12v line, 15A+15A = 30A*12V = 360w so it shouldn't be a problem. I also note the over current protection (duration not listed) is set at 45A for each 12v line.
Of course this is all theoretical and what happens in reality is what matters but I think it would be fine.
Seb
SebRad: Your calcuations are correct, of course, and you are right, it shouldn't be a problem. I used to have a six drive RAID0 array of Seagates which started without problems.
None the less, it would be an interesting project. Even a simple two output staggered delay would be interesting. A simple way to do that would be transistors and some big capacitors that take a second or two to charge.
None the less, it would be an interesting project. Even a simple two output staggered delay would be interesting. A simple way to do that would be transistors and some big capacitors that take a second or two to charge.