Unbearable high frequency noise from hard drives

Silencing hard drives, optical drives and other storage devices

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IsaacKuo
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Post by IsaacKuo » Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:30 am

marcvip wrote:the noise is not from the motherboard because when the drive is disconnected the frequency stops (cannot be heard)
Please reread MikeC's explanation and follow his advice to test for his (and others) suspicions. As he notes, electronic whine may depend on exactly what equipment is hooked up. Others in this thread have speculated that your issue sounds more like an electronic whine than hard drive idle whine.

The noise may indeed be coming from the motherboard, but only when that drive is connected.

You can, if you feel like it, continue to insist that the noise can't be coming from the motherboard because the noise stops when you disconnect the drive. It's your choice to do so, but it won't do a thing to help solve your problem.

andyb
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Post by andyb » Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:44 am

I thought I had your answer just then.

I looked up the SCSI drive, and found it to have FDB's however, from my experience of D740X's they dont have FDB's.

I then did a bit of googling, and some do/some dont, do your drives have FDB's.???

I also searched Wikipedia for FDB info, it does not mention high pitched noise anywhere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_bearing

If your HDD's dont have FDB's then that might be your answer, if not, then I am sticking to the theory of the Drive PCB's for SCSI and SATA, that does not affect PATA.


Andy

marcvip
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Post by marcvip » Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:28 am

IsaacKuo wrote:
marcvip wrote:the noise is not from the motherboard because when the drive is disconnected the frequency stops (cannot be heard)
Please reread MikeC's explanation and follow his advice to test for his (and others) suspicions. As he notes, electronic whine may depend on exactly what equipment is hooked up. Others in this thread have speculated that your issue sounds more like an electronic whine than hard drive idle whine.

The noise may indeed be coming from the motherboard, but only when that drive is connected.

You can, if you feel like it, continue to insist that the noise can't be coming from the motherboard because the noise stops when you disconnect the drive. It's your choice to do so, but it won't do a thing to help solve your problem.
I unplugged the data cable from the harddrives....and just the power cable remaining and it still produces high frequencies....I even swapped motherboard

marcvip
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Post by marcvip » Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:30 am

andyb wrote:I thought I had your answer just then.

I looked up the SCSI drive, and found it to have FDB's however, from my experience of D740X's they dont have FDB's.

I then did a bit of googling, and some do/some dont, do your drives have FDB's.???

I also searched Wikipedia for FDB info, it does not mention high pitched noise anywhere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_bearing

If your HDD's dont have FDB's then that might be your answer, if not, then I am sticking to the theory of the Drive PCB's for SCSI and SATA, that does not affect PATA.


Andy
Maxtor D740X-6L

The Maxtor D740X-6L comes in 20, 40, 60 and 80GB flavors. The capacity of each disk is 40GB double-sided or 20 MB / side. The 20 GB capacity drive uses a single disk with a single head, 40 GB is realized by moving to a double sided single disk (two heads), at 60 GB we have 2 disks and three heads and the 80 GB top model uses two disks and four heads. Noise reduction is achieved with Maxtor's Fluid Dynamic Bearing that reduces idle noise from 3.0 Bel in the ball bearing (BB) models to 2.7 Bel in the FDB models recognized by the L in the model name. Compared to the IBM drive with its 55 / 400 G shock endurance, the Maxtor D740 series only tolerates 30/300 G over 2 ms, vibration sensitivity is frequency dependent in the range of 0.0004 G2/Hz. Keep in mind that this is an entirely different metric than what IBM is using in their data sheet and the numbers cannot be compared with each other. Nonetheless, these values stress the importance of a vibration-free environment

IsaacKuo
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Post by IsaacKuo » Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:49 am

marcvip wrote:I unplugged the data cable from the harddrives....and just the power cable remaining and it still produces high frequencies....I even swapped motherboard
That's interesting, and does imply that it's probably not the motherboard--but it could still be electric whine (the PSU is the other big offender with electric whine).

Is there some special reason why you're unwilling to do MikeC's test? Wrap up the hard drive within thick layers of blankets. This should significantly reduce/eliminate high pitched noises. If you still hear the whine, then the most plausible source is coil whine from the PSU.

[edit added:]

BTW, the solution to high pitched whine which I suggested will work regardless of whether the source of the whine is the hard drive, PSU, or motherboard. Essentially, if the offending component is within the computer case, then the pillow baffles will eliminate the high pitched whine. The key is to use thick pillows and prevent any line-of-sight "escape" paths for the sound.
Last edited by IsaacKuo on Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

MikeC
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Post by MikeC » Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:49 am

marcvip -- you have yet to answer the question most are asking here, one way or another: Have you localized the whine as coming from those drives? IE, are you sure it originates from the drives?

marcvip
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Post by marcvip » Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:57 am

MikeC wrote:marcvip -- you have yet to answer the question most are asking here, one way or another: Have you localized the whine as coming from those drives? IE, are you sure it originates from the drives?
I had performed your test and the frequency was so high with SCSI that it went past through the insolation/blankets of the drives...I have the awarding winning seasonic 600w PSU......all I know is I am all set with these Maxtors so I am leaning on the Fluid dynamics theory

IsaacKuo
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Post by IsaacKuo » Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:20 pm

marcvip wrote:I had performed your test and the frequency was so high with SCSI that it went past through the insolation/blankets of the drives...
Did the amount of noise get reduced? Higher frequency noises should be blocked the easiest. The higher the frequency, the easier to block.
I have the awarding winning seasonic 600w PSU......all I know is I am all set with these Maxtors so I am leaning on the Fluid dynamics theory
Any brand of PSU may produce coil whine; there are no absolute guarantees. You could try wrapping the PSU within layers of blankets, and see if that has any effect.

marcvip
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Post by marcvip » Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:24 pm

IsaacKuo wrote:
marcvip wrote:I had performed your test and the frequency was so high with SCSI that it went past through the insolation/blankets of the drives...
Did the amount of noise get reduced? Higher frequency noises should be blocked the easiest. The higher the frequency, the easier to block.
I have the awarding winning seasonic 600w PSU......all I know is I am all set with these Maxtors so I am leaning on the Fluid dynamics theory
Any brand of PSU may produce coil whine; there are no absolute guarantees. You could try wrapping the PSU within layers of blankets, and see if that has any effect.
You're saying a specific load causes the psu to emit the frequency? if I shut the SCSI/SATA drive off, there is no high frequency even with the psu ON? I have 2 maxtor udma133 drives running on my system now with no issues

IsaacKuo
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Post by IsaacKuo » Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:34 pm

marcvip wrote:You're saying a specific load causes the psu to emit the frequency?
Yes. As MikeC and others have said, sometimes it's a particular combination of electric components which interact with each other to produce electric whine. It can be very difficult and frustrating to diagnose the circumstances which cause PSU and motherboard electric whine.

That's why I'm moving toward excessive overkill "whole computer" solutions to high pitched noise elimination. Even so, my "overkill" solutions can't do anything about CRT whine or mouse whine (fortunately, none of my mice whine).

marcvip
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Post by marcvip » Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:40 pm

IsaacKuo wrote:
marcvip wrote:You're saying a specific load causes the psu to emit the frequency?
Yes. As MikeC and others have said, sometimes it's a particular combination of electric components which interact with each other to produce electric whine. It can be very difficult and frustrating to diagnose the circumstances which cause PSU and motherboard electric whine.

That's why I'm moving toward excessive overkill "whole computer" solutions to high pitched noise elimination. Even so, my "overkill" solutions can't do anything about CRT whine or mouse whine (fortunately, none of my mice whine).
yeah....CRT has a lower but similar high frequency....I switched to LCD to fix that...

jldet5
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Post by jldet5 » Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:05 pm

Since we both like the Maxtors how about giving the SATA 1 version of the Diamond MAX 10 160G a try?

andyb
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Post by andyb » Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:26 am

Well thats the FDB's ruled out then.

So we have so far worked out, that the noise is ONLY there when using, SATA or SCSI devices.

PATA drives are fine, FDB's are fine.

Your motherboard is OK.

Your PSU has not been ruled out.

A combination of components has not been ruled out.

Do you know someone whos PSU you can borrow, and likewise, whose PC you can use to attach some of your "Squealing" HDD's to. This would be an excelent pair of tests to conduct.


Andy

marcvip
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Post by marcvip » Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:29 am

andyb wrote:Well thats the FDB's ruled out then.

So we have so far worked out, that the noise is ONLY there when using, SATA or SCSI devices.

PATA drives are fine, FDB's are fine.

Your motherboard is OK.

Your PSU has not been ruled out.

A combination of components has not been ruled out.

Do you know someone whos PSU you can borrow, and likewise, whose PC you can use to attach some of your "Squealing" HDD's to. This would be an excelent pair of tests to conduct.


Andy
I though PATA's were fine but some were not....look back and the previous posts (Western Digital HD 250GB 7200RPM 8MB WD2500JB 3 platter )

andyb
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Post by andyb » Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:30 am

Appologies, I missed that one.

MOST PATA drives are OK. Seemingly older models.


Andy

marcvip
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Post by marcvip » Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:32 am

andyb wrote:Appologies, I missed that one.

MOST PATA drives are OK. Seemingly older models.


Andy
Even seems as size might be a factor....do SATA and SCSI drives have "fluid dynamics" ?

andyb
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Post by andyb » Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:51 am

FDB's were first implemented on the Cuda IV's, and every Seagate since then, some manufacturers (WD) sold FDB and non-FDB drives with the same lables for some time, with only the serial code to identify which drived do or dont have FDB's. However every WD drive sold within the last 6 month have FDB's, and everyone elses drive within the last 2 years.

You will have to look up each and every drive that you have tested if its old.

Every Maxtor from the DM8/9 era have FDB's, Seagate as mentioned above, WD check each drive, Samsung and Hitachi I am not so sure about. Usually the easiest way to tell is to just listen to it for 5 seconds, non-FDB drives make really horrible noises - you will know.

It cant be an FDB problem anyway as all FDB's are essentially the same regardless of who makes them. And you have tested FDB drive that dont make the high pitched noise that you can hear.

A very quick test for you to try, can you hook up a PATA drive that DOES make the high pitched noise, go into the BIOS and set all of the PATA channels to PIO mode only, and dissable DMA, and let me know if that makes any difference, I doubt it will, but it would rule out high frequency data transmission for PATA as a noise maker. That idea is clutching at straws for everyone who thinks I am barking mad.


Andy

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Post by MikeC » Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:07 am

marcvip --

forgive me if I've missed it, but did you in fact verify that the noise is coming from the drives? It's definitely not coming from the PSU or motherboard?

andyb
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Post by andyb » Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:46 am

Hiya Mike.

Marcvip has tried a different mobo, but not PSU or HDD's in someone elses PC.


Andy

marcvip
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Post by marcvip » Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:16 am

andyb wrote:Hiya Mike.

Marcvip has tried a different mobo, but not PSU or HDD's in someone elses PC.


Andy
Ok...I connected a SCSI drive on 3 different desktops....same problem so it is not the PSU nor the MOBO......can any of you connect any SCSI drive and put your ear next to it for 5 minutes you'll see what I am talking about...SCSI drives emit some wicked frequencies...

IsaacKuo
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Post by IsaacKuo » Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:25 am

Most of us don't have any SCSI drives at all. I have one, but it's an ancient 20meg dinosaur. Plenty of us have various brands of PATA and SATA drives, of course.

So, you can hear the noise better when you hold your ear up next to it? Did wrapping the drive heavily in blankets reduce the noise at all?

marcvip
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Post by marcvip » Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:40 am

IsaacKuo wrote:Most of us don't have any SCSI drives at all. I have one, but it's an ancient 20meg dinosaur. Plenty of us have various brands of PATA and SATA drives, of course.

So, you can hear the noise better when you hold your ear up next to it? Did wrapping the drive heavily in blankets reduce the noise at all?
Guys ...case closed on this one....my system is now running perfect with these Maxtors

nix-madness
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Post by nix-madness » Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:42 am

andyb wrote:I have noticed quite a few mobos with integtrated LAN that put out a high pitched whine with network traffic, likewise graphics cards, and even internal graphics.
Agree. I personally experienced this myself with my motherboard (MSI 865PE Neo2-PLS) that has an integrated 100mbps ethernet port. When I transfer files under a certain popular O/S from Redmond, it would emit a certain high pitched buzz (I could probably use this symptom to ward off insects during those hot-humid days in Singapore :)). However, the same motherboard dual boot into Fedora Core 4 Linux do not exhibit this symptom.

Hmmm...maybe Linux is rather bug free, so there's no need for such "feature" to ward off bugs. :lol:

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