Samsung HD501LJ

Silencing hard drives, optical drives and other storage devices

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blunden
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Location: Sweden

Post by blunden » Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:20 pm

biatche wrote:Well, I own two of these disks now, and one of them is DoA.. initially it didn't power up, i thought it was my problem. then while copying data, it kept unpowering and repowering itself.

seem like one of the platters isn't functioning properly the way it seems... anyone still confident with this drive? 500gb is a lot of space, i really hope im not gonna lose my data.....
I'm not the least bit worried. For me it runs great. :D People that are unhappy with it are more likely to write (bad) things about it. I think it's awsome though.
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boxleitnerb
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Post by boxleitnerb » Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:15 am

What about the new WD Caviar series in comparison?
So from Samsung the 501LJ is the way to go?

I think Seagate and Hitachi are off the table when I want absolute silence, right? But WD...I don't know :)

I would buy two new HDDs and I'm really worried about vibrations. They will be enclosed and watercooled in a Silentstar Dual box. Should the 2kg copper pieces be enough to make the vibrations go away (Samsung or WD)?

Edit:
In Europe there are two versions of the 501LJ: one as a "kit" which is about 20 EUR more expensive than the normal one.
Does anyone know what's up with that?

Also, is there a quieter drive than the 501LJ with less capacity as a system drive? For performance reasons I will buy two drives and the system drive doesnt need to be that big but dead silent. If there is nothing better than the 501LJ, the better :)

alfred
Posts: 127
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Post by alfred » Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:39 am

Never tried the Silentstar Dual Box; I'd be curious to know how it manages vibrations because it basically couples two hard disks (and this is no good idea for vibrations for sure) then puts a very thin layer of foam around them : http://www.allround-pc.com/reviews/0405 ... /hdd20.jpg

I guess the one-platter T166 HD160HJ should be the most silent in the serie.

boxleitnerb
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Post by boxleitnerb » Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:48 am

I will go for a watercooling setup and thought it might be logical to include the HDDs.
Does anyone own both, the HD160HJ AND the 501LJ and can compare them noisewise? Should be practically the same technology I guess, but you never know :)

alfred
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:32 pm

Post by alfred » Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:48 pm

Comparative review of the HD501LJ on chip.de
The Samsung HD501LJ takes first place on general and noisewise; it places second in transfer rate, behind the Raptor 10,000rpm. Clicking 'alle' shows all 24 tested HDDs.

Geräusch = Noise
Leistungs-aufnahme = Power consumption
Anwendungen = Applications
Zugriffszeit = Access time
Gesamt = Total
Last edited by alfred on Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tursca
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Location: Slovenia

Post by tursca » Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:01 am

Hello!

I have 2x 250GB HD conected to Raid 0 (which is devided to primary partition C: in and one extended D: ), I also have a backup HD 160GB E: which is also extended partition.

My question is.......

I have a new 500GB HD and can't set the HD in disk management to a extended partition, bit it only gives me an option of making SIPMLE volume? Is this ok? Do i need to have extended like on other HD? If I wanted can I set the new 500GB HD to a extended partition or not?

And also why is it good to format capacity to a block size of 512? Default is 256 right... why would it be 512 better?

Thanks!

Mescalero
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Location: TU-BS, Germany

Post by Mescalero » Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:06 am

alfred wrote:
Leistungs-aufnahme = Capacity
Leistungsaufnahme is power cinsumption nor capacity.

alfred
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Post by alfred » Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:27 pm

Mescalero : thanks :oops: I've edited my post now.

puscifer
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Location: Portugal

Post by puscifer » Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:38 am

I really need to know how the noise compares between the 5000YS and the HD501LJ. Some people noted high-pitch idle in both and while seek sound is also an issue, any noticable highs will also be, seeing I keep my P180 pretty 'open-air'. Can anybody who got a chance to try both in a silent environment chime in? I need to be steered into the quietest one since space its my main issue now and i'll eventually end up with at least 4 of them. My 2x200GB DM9+ has already been rma'd once and they just ain't cuttin it anymore. Seeing as i can get the sammy for 160€ and the WD for 200€, price is an issue, although not as much as noise (and obviously, reliability). Thx in advance.

therelevator
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Post by therelevator » Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:37 pm

ok, so what would you use as a system drive four your OS? A single HD501LJ, a RAID0 of two HD321KJ, a RAID0 of two HD160HJ (only 8 MB cache :( ), or a RAID0 of two WD2000JS? Which choice gives the best random access time, which choice is the most silent, and which choice does give the best overall performance?

andyb
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Post by andyb » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:28 am

I havent done any testing, but I did notice that the 501 that I have got (set to slowest/quietest seeks) is very very quick drive to drive, so having just one of those would probably be enough for most people. I have never installed Mozilla before in <4 seconds 8)


Andy
Main PC, P180, CM Silent Pro 500M, i5 3570k @ 4.2Ghz, 8-GB @ 2,400MHz, 512GB 850 EVO, 500 Extreme II, 2x 2.5" drives, MSI 660Ti Twin Frozr.
Server, under reconstruction, 380W Enermax Pro82+, positive pressure only.

alfred
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Post by alfred » Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:09 pm

4 * HD501LJ RAID-0 (128KB) on ICH8R, 2 stripes (40GB + 1823GB) :

Image Image
Image Image

sireebob
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Post by sireebob » Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:04 am

I'm fairly unhappy with this drive.

Its performance is great when it's actually performing. When I first got this I had plans to put it in an external SATA/USB 2.0 enclosure, but first I tried it in my computer. It failed to work - it just clicked repeatedly. I figured it might be that my computer (purchased in 2003) had poor SATA support so I tried it in the enclosure.

It worked, and everything was great until I started to get device timeouts for it in the Event Viewer a month or two later. So I tried it in my newly-built computer, and the same problem occurred. But I was persistent and I discovered that if I start up my computer, let the drive click, turn the computer off and then turn it back on without waiting longer than a second or so, the drive will often function properly.

It works fine once it gets started - no problems other than the ones I began to have in the enclosure (which don't occur when directly attached to the computer) - but it has a hard time starting up. I'm ordering a new external enclosure for it since I believe the last one was just failing. It works fine in enclosures because it has adequate time to be powered up before its data is accessed, or so I suppose. It's as if the computer tries to access it too early after it's been powered up and that ruins the startup process until I turn the computer off and quickly back on.

I was sure I ran across another post related to this problem with this particular drive somewhere... or at least with SOME drive.. but I can't find it again.

EsaT
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Post by EsaT » Sat Mar 03, 2007 1:00 pm

I would say that you don't need new external enclosure but to send drive to guarantee change or at least run Samsung's disc health tools as fast as you can.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
-George Bernard Shaw

sireebob
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Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:53 am

Post by sireebob » Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:42 pm

UPDATE: This seems to perfectly described my problem. (... Or so I thought.)
The system hangs up while trying to boot the hard disk when it is first booted after turning it on, but will boot after a warm reset

Explanation: The system will only boot the hard disk after a warm reset is performed when it is powered on for the first time. It will not boot the first time that the power is turned on.
EXCEPT that a "warm" reset doesn't seem to work. I have to turn the computer off and back on quickly, which seems too similar to ignore.
My computer unfortunately doesn't respond to the remedies listed for this issue. Turning off "Quick Boot", the drive still clicks during the Memory Test and continues to until I turn the computer off and back on quickly.

Sound clip of clicking (if it'll be of any use): http://www.supload.com/sound_confirm.ph ... 833065.wav
The clicking is not as loud as it sounds - I was holding the microphone right next to the hard drive, so the sound is exaggerated.

Also, there are times when it will boot fine without me having to take any special action - luck, I guess.

MAIN POST:
Thanks, EsaT. I forgot to mention that I've done everything I could think of as far as diagnostics. HDutil from Samsung would not run (I don't even have a floppy drive so I used Nero to burn DR DOS with HDutil to a bootable CD-ROM), but since you mentioned it I'll be persistent in trying to get it to work. I used a version of Seagate's diagnostics instead that actually could detect the eSATA drive (unlike the latest SeaTools 1.08). So I ran the tests - Quick Test and Full. Quick Test was fine, Full Test was fine (no problems for either of them), but File Structure test detected (and still detects) file system issues. This isn't saying much as it detects issues for some of my other drives which, according to chkdsk /R, have no problems. Oh, and chkdsk (/R or /F) find no problems with the drive, either, when connected via direct SATA.

Anyway, I've also checked S.M.A.R.T. parameters for the device using the free (for personal use) utility DiskCheckup. I could only retrieve this information when the drive was connected directly via SATA. It wasn't picked up with the drive as eSATA (I tried other utilities at the time as I didn't know about DiskCheckup). If anyone else with an HD501LJ would run this utility to retrieve their S.M.A.R.T. parameters and post them for comparison it would be helpful. Here they are, by the way (adjusted for better fit):

Code: Select all

SMART ATTRIBUTES:
 ID  Description                       Raw Value   Status   Value   Worst   Threshold
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  1  Raw Read Error Rate               0           OK       100     100     51
  3  Spin Up Time                      3328ms      OK       100     100     15
  4  Start/Stop Count                  62          OK       100     100     0
  5  Reallocated Sector Count          1           OK       100     100     10
  7  Seek Error Rate                   0           OK       253     253     51
  8  Seek Time Performance             0           OK       253     253     15
  9  Power On Time                     657         OK       100     100     0
  A  Spin Retry Count                  0           OK       253     253     51
  B  Calibration Retry Count           0           OK       253     253     0
  C  Power Cycle Count                 56          OK       100     100     0
 BB  (Unknown attribute)               2162688     OK       253     253     0
 BC  (Unknown attribute)               0           OK       253     253     0
 BE  (Unknown attribute)               23          OK       77      62      0
 C2  Temperature                       23 C        OK       169     124     0
 C3  (Unknown attribute)               46689010    OK       100     100     0
 C4  Reallocation Event Count          1           OK       100     100     0
 C5  Current Pending Sector Count      6           OK       100     100     0
 C6  Uncorrectable Sector Count        0           OK       253     253     0
 C7  UltraDMA CRC Error Count          0           OK       200     200     0
 C8  Write Error Count                 0           OK       100     100     0
 C9  Off Track Errors                  0           OK       100     100     0
 CA  Direct Address Mark Error Rate    17          OK       100     100     0
Anyway, there doesn't appear to be a problem based on tests I've run UNLESS I'm using the external enclosure which I believe to be failing. In this situation, sectors will be interpreted as "bad" when the device times out, which it often does.

And the non-external problem (direct SATA) occurs only at system startup, or when the system is booting up. As I've described before, it clicks, the drive unable to be detected. I power the computer off, immediately power it back on, and it works fine.

The drive has a physical defect that it didn't ship with caused during its installation into the external enclosure. I am confident that this is unrelated to the problem based on the bizarre symptoms the drive exhibits, but if you disagree, please explain. Anyway, there's a chip on the plastic portion of the SATA interface - the short, angled portion. The SATA cable connects snugly and with no problems, however. My point is that I don't believe Samsung would honor the warranty with this damage present, but based on its performance I believe the drive may be salvageable.

I'm just wondering if this unique power on-brief power off-power on pattern to get the drive working is familiar to anyone or indicative of anything. My theory is that the reason the drive worked (while it did) in the crappy external enclosure was that the drive was able to receive power and take its time to become ready for usage before its data was accessed. In other words, keeping the order of Plug In - Wait Shortly - Connect To Computer made it work.

Does this make sense to anyone? I've been Googling this and trying to find other instances of this problem but no luck so far. Any suggestions on things I can do or try or test to determine the cause of the problem would be immensely appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Last edited by sireebob on Sun Mar 04, 2007 1:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

alfred
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Post by alfred » Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:10 am

sireebob, what motherboard, PSU & other components are you using in this computer ? Did you check sata II compatibility ? It seems to me your Samsung wasn't defect at all until you made your first tests. Do you have access to another computer with sata II ports ? Did you run (non-Samsung) HDD diagnosis programs from www.ultimatebootcd.com ?

sireebob
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Post by sireebob » Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:42 am

alfred,

My previous computer's motherboard was an ASUS A7N8X Deluxe - old now, I know - and it had the same problem my current ASUS P5N-E SLI has as far as detecting this hard drive in a reasonable amount of time. The clicking problem I have NEVER occurs when the drive is in the external enclosure (only that enclosure seems to have gone bad now).

I ran the Seagate Diagnostics, and my motherboard supports SATA 3.0 Gb/s as does the drive (obviously). Placing the 1.5 Gb/s limiter jumper on or off doesn't make a difference. Obviously I have access to another computer with SATA but it's only SATA 1.5 Gb/s and it's the old A7N8X.

I'll try the ultimate boot CD, thanks.

Also, I don't think the tests themselves damaged the drive if that's what you mean. Be back soon with more info...

---

OK, so I tried the boot CD. The only thing I could think of to do was try Samsung's HUTIL. It failed, causing some kind of error, and I figure this is because the HD501LJ isn't supported. As I've said, I've run Seagate's SeaTools (Desktop, I think) with no problems found in quick or full tests. As mentioned a few posts up, the SMART information seems normal (although the spin-up time was 6.6 seconds one time I tried it).

I'm still trying to determine whether there's a rhyme or reason to this problem occurring. I know what steps I can take to make sure the computer boots just fine, but there are times when I don't need to take these steps and it will just work. For example, before giving up for the night I tried 3 or 4 times to see if I could get the problem to occur. It wouldn't happen.

Ugh. Is intermittent boot failure such as this a classic sign of a failing hard drive, or is it a little unusual?

I don't know how useful this is, but I'll post it again for the heck of it. It's a recording of the clicking noise - are these the clicks of death? http://www.supload.com/sound_confirm.ph ... 833065.wav

And just to put it all in one area, my argument AGAINST it being a lost cause is that it works perfectly once it boots up or if I follow the procedure of power on--power off briefly--power on - no clickity-clicks within Windows or other errors once it's started up, and the clicking problem never happened with the external enclosure.

Anybody else have an ASUS P5N-E SLI with this drive? I apologize if I'm babbling incoherently... it's late (well, early) here.

sireebob
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Post by sireebob » Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:38 am

Okay, some new info... After powering on and off for 5 minutes the drive exhibited no problems. I've been using the external enclosure (which is a dual IDE/SATA enclosure) with an 80GB IDE drive since it stopped working with the HD501LJ. There didn't appear to be any problems. I'd unplugged the drive (which was using USB 2.0) to see if that solved any of my boot problems in the future. It appears it has.

After those 5 minutes of success, I plugged in the 80GB drive and turned on the computer. Business as usual; no problems. So I powered the computer off and on again. The HD501LJ began to exhibit its clicking symptoms. When I unplugged and powered down the 80GB drive and tried again, the drive exhibited the clicking symptoms once more before several successes.

After these successes, I tried plugging in the drive again, and after 1 or 2 more tries the clicking was back.

It's definitely related to the external enclosure. Plugging it in to a USB port and powering up the computer can having the lasting effect of causing the clicking problem for up to 3 consecutive boots (probably more related to timing than number), even after it's unplugged. I'm sure the same goes for plugging it into an external SATA port.

This actually makes sense. I don't know how it works out this way, but when the HD501LJ was in the enclosure and it timed out, Event Viewer would show a paging error for my 320GB internal SATA hard drive at the same time. So for some reason, this horrible enclosure's behavior infects other drives just by being plugged in! It's hard to believe, but it's what my (highly non-scientific) experience has shown thus far. Off to sleep I go!

alfred
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Post by alfred » Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:54 am

Mayble you'll want to give a try to some another external enclosure. I'm using several Vantec e-Sata 3.5" enclosures; they're beautifully made and work to the perfection. Actually I'm temporarily using 2 of these in the 4-drives RAID-0 array I posted about yesterday, as I'm waiting to be delivered some more Scythe Quiet Drive internal enclosures.

Back to the topic /
The last 2 Samsung HD501LJ drives I bought were manufactured Jan, 2007; they seem to exhibit even lower idle noise than my previous 501s.

EsaT
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Post by EsaT » Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:09 am

I just checked Newegg comments and there's some mentions about clicking sound and drives dying.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
-George Bernard Shaw

camus
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Post by camus » Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:48 am

I recently got this drive from Newegg. No probelms, this is a very solid drive.

Very quiet and runs much cooler than the Seagate it replaced.
Last edited by camus on Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

jedster
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Post by jedster » Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:04 am

EsaT wrote:I just checked Newegg comments and there's some mentions about clicking sound and drives dying.
I have 10 samsung drives, 7x 501ljs, 2x321kjs, 1x160jj. one of the 321 drives is dying but the other 9 are fine. the 501ljs are all being used 24x7 in a server housed in a p180. the 5 fans in the case are louder than the drives!
Quietly rooting for the glorious comeback of the MCE2005 UI to Vista media center

pbecker
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Sample variance?

Post by pbecker » Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:34 am

I've bought two Samsung drives recently for a new quiet system - a HD321LJ and a HD501LJ. The 320GB drive is nice and quiet, but it seems that the 500GB drive produces a much more noticable humming sound due to vibration (even though I have it mounted on silicone grommets in the bottom of an Antec NSK3400 case). The 320GB drive is mounted in the top part of the case using the same silicone grommets.

I might have been unfortunate and gotten an unusually noisy HD501LJ - has anyone experienced that the HD501LJ's (or Samsung's drives in general) vary significantly in vibration noise?

Techno Pride
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Post by Techno Pride » Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:44 am

Does the Nidec/JVC motor issue still apply to recent Samsung drives?
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jedster
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Re: Sample variance?

Post by jedster » Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:50 am

pbecker wrote:I've bought two Samsung drives recently for a new quiet system - a HD321LJ and a HD501LJ. The 320GB drive is nice and quiet, but it seems that the 500GB drive produces a much more noticable humming sound due to vibration (even though I have it mounted on silicone grommets in the bottom of an Antec NSK3400 case). The 320GB drive is mounted in the top part of the case using the same silicone grommets.

I might have been unfortunate and gotten an unusually noisy HD501LJ - has anyone experienced that the HD501LJ's (or Samsung's drives in general) vary significantly in vibration noise?
I haven't seen much variance across 7 drives. Actually, initially I thought I had some variance, but then I realized that it had more to do with mounting differences, even though they were all mounted in similar ways. Little things like making sure that the cables weren't propogating vibration made a big difference.

Another possibility is that if you have a 321lj perhaps that is just a 2 platter drive? My 321kj is, i believe, a 3 platter driver. A 2 platter drive _should_ produce less vibration than a 3 platter.

If I recall correctly, the LJ/KJ designation denotes something about the platters...note that I have a 321kj.
Quietly rooting for the glorious comeback of the MCE2005 UI to Vista media center

pbecker
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Post by pbecker » Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:44 am

Cool, thanks for the input :) I hadn't thought about the difference made by the number of platters - it could very well mean a lot. I've tried fiddling with the cables and varying the tension on the mounting screws, but it didn't really seem to make a difference.

I might order a new HD501LJ and see if it's less noisy though, because honestly the vibration from my current 500GB drive is very pronounced when compared to the 320GB version...

Mike81
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Post by Mike81 » Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:39 pm

iv just had a 400GB HD400LJ was only £73 inc VAT :D http://www.awd-it.com/scripts/prodView. ... oduct=1388

Silent as a mouse compared to my previous 250GB Western Digital drive even though I previously used Scythe Hard drive silencers.

dvdmonster
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Post by dvdmonster » Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:49 pm

Techno Pride wrote:Does the Nidec/JVC motor issue still apply to recent Samsung drives?
I would like to know this too.. My HD501LJ has a Nidec and it's nice and very silent.

pbecker
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Post by pbecker » Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:06 pm

How do you tell which motor the drive has? I can check mine to make sure...

Mumrik
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Post by Mumrik » Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:02 pm

I bought a 501LJ for my system and a 321KJ for one I'm building for a friend. I 've had quite a bit of trouble with the combination of these drives and Gigabyte 965P-DS4 (ICH8R-based) motherboards. It might just be that I'm less savvy than I thought, but via help from a few people on the ArsTechnica OpenForum I think I finally solved it.

If any one else it having problems with these drives when used in a PC with more than one harddrive (my problems started when files were transfered between disks), you might learn something from the last few posts in this thread


pbecker - the name is written rather clearly on the bottom side of the drive... at least it is on the Nidec ones.

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