Samsung F1 series hard drives w/1TB model

Silencing hard drives, optical drives and other storage devices

Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee

klankymen
Patron of SPCR
Posts: 1069
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:31 pm
Location: Munich, Bavaria, Europe

Post by klankymen » Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:51 am

zzombi wrote:"I'm assuming the high transfer rates found in big drives like the F1 would also be found in big laptop drives?"

No, tracks are shorter, even if they had same rpm.
yes obviously, but I mean will the big laptop drives be similarly faster than the small ones as the big desktop drives are than their low capacity counterparts.
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Benjamin Franklin

zzombi
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 4:43 am

Post by zzombi » Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:08 pm

STR isn't related to HDD capacity, but to platter capacity. I expect tests showing 320, 640 and 1000 F1 get about the same STR (I mean linear read speed).
Access time is related to capacity. A 1TB drive is much quicker than a 320GB. Indeed, if we use just a 320GB partition on the bigger drive we'll measure sensibly shorter access times. The extra space can then be seen just as a bonus, take it or leave it ... you'll take it of course.

PASware
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:34 pm

Post by PASware » Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:41 am

I've found some nice benchmarks of the 750 and 1TB Samsung drive:

Source: http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/lis ... es/1259539

HD753LJ:
Image

Image


HD103UJ:
Image

Image

And some other info:
Samsung will release special Raid Editions of this drive. But only for the 320gb, 750gb en 1000gb versions. The 640gb version will not be released in a Raid Edition version.
750gb = 3x250gb platter

and more information of the Raid Edition:
- Rotational vibration sensor
- MTBF 1,200,000 POH

SileX
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:57 am

Post by SileX » Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:59 am

Also here comparing all the four 1TB drives available so far:

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/?menu=bro ... w=original

Noise for idle/seek:

Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000: 0.6/1.2
Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST31000340AS: 0.6/0.8
Samsung F1 HD103UJ: 0.3/0.5
WD Caviar GP WD10EACS: 0.2/0.5

The best is Samsung F1

SileX
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:57 am

Post by SileX » Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:01 am

PASware wrote:I've found some nice benchmarks of the 750 and 1TB Samsung drive:

Source: http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/lis ... es/1259539
Dutch to English translation:

http://www.google.com/translate?u=http% ... en&ie=UTF8

line
*Lifetime Patron*
Posts: 338
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:07 pm
Location: Israel

Post by line » Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:03 pm

To complement SileX's link, here's a subjective take on the drives' noise from hartware.de, comparing Samsung F1 with WD Caviar GP, Seagate Barracuda .11 and Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000.

German source | English by Google | English by Babelfish

The author says the F1 is "somewhat louder" than the GP at idle, but still well suitable for a quiet system. Under load the two even up. He does not assess vibration level, though.
Last edited by line on Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sailorman
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:31 pm
Location: Germany

Post by sailorman » Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:06 pm

does anybody know how many years is the official warranty for Samsung F1 HD103UJ drives???

zzombi
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 4:43 am

Post by zzombi » Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:41 pm

The non-raid have 3 years.

Hdtune is suspect, it consistently gives lower MB/s than other programs (maybe MiB vs MB issue?). It has interesting yellow points data for mechanical access though: looks like the denser platters have a harder time placing their heads accurately.

The other program is confusing: so basically after blocks get 16-32KB the HDD works full speed with only 4 ATA commands in queue (is this the queue depth?)?! The upper margin should be the average STR, no more.

And what hdd life (hdd exchange interval) is that MTBF computed for?

There's an other thread here which used to be more "up to date", thought I'd mention:

viewtopic.php?t=43466&postdays=0&postor ... bdca0951bd

sailorman
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:31 pm
Location: Germany

Post by sailorman » Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:47 pm

zzombi wrote:The non-raid have 3 years.
have you seen RAID edition for SAMSUNG spinpoint F1 HD103UJ??
because im interested exactly for this... a RAID 5 array!

andyb
Patron of SPCR
Posts: 3307
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:00 pm
Location: Essex, England

Post by andyb » Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:38 am

It is now in stock in the UK.

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/productli ... &subid=940

Komplettare still stating the 12th at a much nicer price.

http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/kl.aspx?bn=10096

Currently no other UK sites I know of list the 1TB product, but they look like they will be in stock in most places soon.


Andy
Main PC, P180, CM Silent Pro 500M, i5 3570k @ 4.2Ghz, 8-GB @ 2,400MHz, 512GB 850 EVO, 500 Extreme II, 2x 2.5" drives, MSI 660Ti Twin Frozr.
Server, under reconstruction, 380W Enermax Pro82+, positive pressure only.

zzombi
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 4:43 am

Post by zzombi » Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:45 am

"have you seen RAID edition for SAMSUNG spinpoint F1 HD103UJ?? "

No.

Why do folks prefer raid edition?

mandoman
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:44 am

Post by mandoman » Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:58 am

sailorman wrote:
zzombi wrote:The non-raid have 3 years.
have you seen RAID edition for SAMSUNG spinpoint F1 HD103UJ??
because im interested exactly for this... a RAID 5 array!
I'm waiting for the RAID version too, the HE103UJ.
Anyone know when we might see these?

sheninat0r
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:02 pm

Post by sheninat0r » Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:40 pm

zzombi wrote:Why do folks prefer raid edition?
^^what he said.
...with a crowbar.

PsychoStreak
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:45 pm
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Post by PsychoStreak » Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:32 pm

Presumably the RAID edition is tuned for better performance and longevity while in a RAID setup than a non-RAID version.

As an example, you'd likely see a measurable difference in performance from a Seagate 7200.11 vs an ES2, despite the two drives being close to identical physically.

Ideally, I'd also wait for the RAID edition, but I want to get my SATA RAID 5 setup going sooner rather than later, so I'm taking a chance on the F1 now. I'd been putting the build off hoping this drive would become available, and it's looking like that will pay off.

Oh, and I received the 1TB F1 from Newegg on Thursday. :twisted:
It's a bit heavier than I expected, but that's fine.

No tests besides power on and BIOS detection yet, but I can tell you that I could not tell when the drive spun up, or that it was even on other than to place my hand on it.

Ordinarily, I can tell what brand a drive is just by listening to it. The F1 may prove problematic because so far I can't hear it. However, if it's really as quiet as it seems, I can live with that. :D

SileX
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:57 am

Post by SileX » Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:51 pm

Samsung SpinPoint F2 1.5 TB by 2008:

Original German:
http://www.hartware.de/news_43643.html

Translated to English:
http://translate.google.com/translate?u ... n&ie=UTF-8

Expect 2TB by 2009.

Wow!!!

MisstressA
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:49 pm

Post by MisstressA » Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:55 pm

The website was a reliable source for HDD info in the past. I am very excited what is to come.

Maybe you should start a new thread for the SpinPoint F2. I guess it would be worth it.

beoba
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:54 pm
Location: Boston

Post by beoba » Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:09 pm

Hey hey hey, not so fast now, we're still missing the 640 and 320 gb variants, and those are the good ones (using 333tb platters like on the 1TB model).

Cryoburner
Posts: 160
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 4:25 am

Post by Cryoburner » Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:49 pm

SileX wrote:Samsung SpinPoint F2 1.5 TB by 2008:
...

Expect 2TB by 2009.

Wow!!!
So, will they be "shipping" in 2008, or actually available in 2008? : )

zzombi
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 4:43 am

Post by zzombi » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:53 am

"Presumably the RAID edition is tuned for better performance and longevity while in a RAID setup than a non-RAID version."

The key word here is presumably. From tests I've seen so far there are close to no differences. Until we know there are mechanical differences, like materials or better bearings, they're unlikely to last longer. The vibration sensor may correct some tracking errors when many hdds are present, but who here still mounts them rigidly? That sensor isn't enough to make them last longer. They usualy have slower seeks too, for that same reason. In the end they do have longer warranty, but higher price.

"Ordinarily, I can tell what brand a drive is just by listening to it. The F1 may prove problematic because so far I can't hear it. However, if it's really as quiet as it seems, I can live with that."

That's good news, provided it is actually spinning :-) From my limited experience even same model hdds may sound different, some having platters better balanced mechanically, so I guess you weren't unlucky.

If I had an F1 I wouldn't downgrade to an F2 ;-) While the hdds progress is not bad, ssds progress twice as quick, so I guess the F2 name will become the right match.

mandoman
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:44 am

Post by mandoman » Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:57 pm

Dang, now I want the 333gb desktop F1 as well
to replace my system drive!

When is Samsung going to release those?!?

And the wait continues...

Michael Sandstrom
Posts: 606
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:03 pm
Location: Albany, GA USA

Post by Michael Sandstrom » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:27 pm

What wait? They are in stock at Newegg for $279.99. Oops, I thought you were referring to the 1TB drive.

Kaleid
Posts: 254
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 9:43 am
Location: Sweden

Post by Kaleid » Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:48 pm

I'll have to wait as well, want 2x 640GB drives..
i5 4670k (@4.2), Asus Z87-C, Mugen 2 revB (500rpm), Club 3d 280x with AC S1+ (700+500rpm), 24GB Kingston 1600Mhz, Crucial MX100 512GB SSD, 4TB+3TB WD Green (in softm. Scythe quietdrives), Soundblaster Z, Asus MG279Q, Corsair RM650i, Antec p180 (2x500rpm slipstream)

Raptus
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:35 am
Location: Germany

Post by Raptus » Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:10 pm

PsychoStreak wrote:Presumably the RAID edition is tuned for better performance and longevity while in a RAID setup than a non-RAID version.
What I know about pro vs. consumer network equipment may be valid for "raid editions" vs. normal versions of HDs, too:
The pro versions come with a much longer burn in test time. Typically equipment has high infant mortality rate. But after this critical phase failure rates decline, only rising again at the end of expected lifetime. The extended burn-in/testing sorts out those pieces most likely to fail, increasing the effective MTBF in field. It's this considerably longer testing that accounts for the higher prices.

zzombi
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 4:43 am

Post by zzombi » Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:45 pm

Then the non-raid will last longer, provided they make it past infancy.

Some even say MTBF discounts infant failures...

Infancy is covered by waranty anyway, so I guess the more people buy raid, the cheaper the rest can get their plain vanilla longer lasting faster non-worn el cheapo non-raid. Quite an irony.

In conclusion the RAID-Edition rocks!

Raptus
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:35 am
Location: Germany

Post by Raptus » Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:39 am

zzombi wrote:Infancy is covered by waranty anyway, so I guess the more people buy raid, the cheaper the rest can get their plain vanilla longer lasting faster non-worn el cheapo non-raid.
Yes, but the normal version is more likely to fail. Raid editions cater for a different market, it's for those running critical applications where failures must be avoided at all cost (warranty doesn't matter much here as it wouldn't cover any business losses incurred).

trxman
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 5:45 pm
Location: system

Post by trxman » Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:08 am

Raptus wrote:Yes, but the normal version is more likely to fail. Raid editions cater for a different market, it's for those running critical applications where failures must be avoided at all cost (warranty doesn't matter much here as it wouldn't cover any business losses incurred).
and that's why they are called raid-edition: you have to use it in raid to prevent losing of data :lol:

zzombi
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 4:43 am

Post by zzombi » Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:21 am

And you would agree that those critical aplications exclude home users. Realistically, how much can those hdds been run in? 1-2 days, or 1 week at most. We waited half a year for this model, we could give it 1 more week. And except a minority of cases (say 1% premature failures) you get a better drive.

Unless there's more than this, or they're somehow binned, I see little reason for a home user. But to each his own.

Raptus
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:35 am
Location: Germany

Post by Raptus » Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:53 am

zzombi wrote:And you would agree that those critical aplications exclude home users. Realistically, how much can those hdds been run in? 1-2 days, or 1 week at most.
Though I don't have figures, I believe it's longer than that.
And except a minority of cases (say 1% premature failures) you get a better drive.
In the first 3 months of usage drives have ~10% average failure rate if under high average load, according to this study (figure 3, page 5): http://labs.google.com/papers/disk_failures.pdf
Very interesting study, btw, well worth the read.
Unless there's more than this, or they're somehow binned, I see little reason for a home user. But to each his own.
I agree. One could still do his own burn-in testing before putting the drive into real use 8) That would've saved me the trouble a few years back when my 2 week old 250GB hitachi corrupted my root folder...

Jose Hidalgo
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:25 pm
Location: Lyon, France

Post by Jose Hidalgo » Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:16 am

The HD103UJ is available at Newegg, but does someone know something about the HD102UJ ? (1TB, 16MB cache instead of 32, thus cheaper). Why isn't it available yet, and WHEN will it finally be available ? :(

Being cheaper than the already cheap HD103UJ, I believe the HD102UJ will be a real killer in the 1TB market segment.

Thanks. :wink:
My home-made Home Cinema Screen : http://hidalgoj.free.fr/ecran

andyb
Patron of SPCR
Posts: 3307
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:00 pm
Location: Essex, England

Post by andyb » Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:26 am

Whats the point, you will save £10 ($20), I was surprised that they even list and make the drive at all.!


Andy
Main PC, P180, CM Silent Pro 500M, i5 3570k @ 4.2Ghz, 8-GB @ 2,400MHz, 512GB 850 EVO, 500 Extreme II, 2x 2.5" drives, MSI 660Ti Twin Frozr.
Server, under reconstruction, 380W Enermax Pro82+, positive pressure only.

Post Reply