any dvd burners capable of burning slow?

vortex222 · Post by **vortex222** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:26 am

I have gone through a host of dvd burners lately, there all crap. 2 Lite-Ons, an LG and a Sony. None of them could burn at anything lower then 4x dvd, or 16x cdr.

This has led to a small gaggle of problems with burn quality and compatibility concerning older playback equipment.

I used to have a Pioneer A06 and would burn at usaly 2x DvD and 4x CDR and it was amazing until i had physically wore it out after some 1500 burns.

Has anyone got any recommendations for a GOOD Burner these days. and NO... I refuse to buy Plextor when it is just a rebranded piece like the above mentioned drives.

(Edited to remove some of the frustrations voiced.)

matt_garman · Post by **matt_garman** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:09 pm

I have a trusty old PATA NEC ND-3550A that burns DVDs at 2x. I've had it for quite a while, and done lots of burns. Unfortunately, I don't believe these are manufactured any more.

I recently purchased a serial ATA Samsung DVD burner. It shows up as a "TSSTcorp CD/DVDW SH-S183L SB01". The minimum DVD burn speed for this unit is 4x. So far it works, but I haven't had it long enough to say anything more than that.

You could probably find a used NEC 3550A somewhere, but who knows how much life it'll have left. If you look long/hard enough, you might be able to find some new ones.

Matija · Post by **Matija** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:33 pm

Why would you want slow burns?

vortex222 · Post by **vortex222** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:15 pm

Matija wrote:Why would you want slow burns?

For Quality. The faster the burn, the lower the quality of burn. Anything over 2.4x dvd or 12x for CRr is no longer linear, but its now angular which means the outer edge of the CD now suffers from being less reflective to the reader then the inner edge. I have noted a serious degradation in the quality of burns over my older burners.

To matt garman, i looked into the only new NEC i could find and it is simply a rebranded Lite-On, much like how the new plextors are either Lite-On or LG. Im going to try a Samsung this time around. Im getting tired of replacing the drive every couple of months, its maddening.

Matija · Post by **Matija** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:08 pm

AFAIK, that is not true anymore. In the old days, yes, slow burns did produce better results, because media was being pushed to its limits with 4x and even 6x CD burning. Then things have changed, and media was optimized for best quality burns at higher speeds, with lower speeds often producing unreadable data.

I don't think you should blame the drives, it's the media that's changed. The drives could probably burn slowly if they had old empty discs inside.

For example, I have a NEC 3520A. When I burn something with 6x to a MCC-003 or MCC-004 DVD+R, it has way more PIF and PIE than a burn done at 12x or even 16x.

jhhoffma · Post by **jhhoffma** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:04 am

matt_garman wrote:I have a trusty old PATA NEC ND-3550A that burns DVDs at 2x. I've had it for quite a while, and done lots of burns. Unfortunately, I don't believe these are manufactured any more.

I recently purchased a serial ATA Samsung DVD burner. It shows up as a "TSSTcorp CD/DVDW SH-S183L SB01". The minimum DVD burn speed for this unit is 4x. So far it works, but I haven't had it long enough to say anything more than that.

You could probably find a used NEC 3550A somewhere, but who knows how much life it'll have left. If you look long/hard enough, you might be able to find some new ones.

So you're telling me my 3550A is now considered "old tech"???

I guess I'll have to go hang my head in shame...

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:59 pm

whether anyone can prove that it is rebranded or not, my 760 plextor has those features, is decently quiet, and very reliable.

I always burn as slow as I can tolerate. I burn operating systems at 2-4x, and anything else I am giving as crucial data to someone else's old computer.

It makes a difference if you arent using the new cd readers or for compatibility issues. The old days are still here if your cd rom is old!

as far as my knowledge from club cdfreaks will get me, my plextor 760 is a plain old plextor. It just isnt built the same way anymore. It was the only choice this winter for a decently quiet, wildly compatible and efficient drive.

my pioneer a06? or whatever it is, the silent rubber encased retail version, is the best reader and dvd player on the planet. nothing is quieter, too bad it is not made anymore. it is 1/3rd the level of sound or 1/5th maybe even of the plextor. the plextor is considered a quiet drive too.

I wont burn on it or use it for anything besides playing a dvd or cd check during a game for fear of the day when it dies.

vortex222 · Post by **vortex222** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:40 pm

with music cds, my Clarion player in my truck is a couple of years old, Any cd burned higher then 16x starts to have read issues after ~60 minutes. My last couple of burners have been this way on at least 3 different kinds of media.

Both my Sony standalone and my dads JVC dvd players have issues with fast burned cds. Of ANY brand. My $30 poc dvd player seems to do ok with upto moderate speed.

I just picked up the new Pioneer 212, and sofar so good, notibly better then the last couple of LG and Liteon's that i have had. Its a shame my A06 died

Matija · Post by **Matija** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:56 pm

What do you mean by "brand"? What's written on the box, or dye manufacturer?

JazzJackRabbit · Post by **JazzJackRabbit** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:22 pm

vortex222 wrote:with music cds, my Clarion player in my truck is a couple of years old, Any cd burned higher then 16x starts to have read issues after ~60 minutes. My last couple of burners have been this way on at least 3 different kinds of media.

Both my Sony standalone and my dads JVC dvd players have issues with fast burned cds. Of ANY brand. My $30 poc dvd player seems to do ok with upto moderate speed.

I just picked up the new Pioneer 212, and sofar so good, notibly better then the last couple of LG and Liteon's that i have had. Its a shame my A06 died

There is a lot to say about CD/DVD burn quality. Without going into details I'd say your best bet is to buy some quality CDRs. Brand doesn't really matter as most of the brands simply buy OEM CDRs, slap their name on it and resell. Try Taiyo-Yuden, this is one of the original manufacturers and it's one of the best, 90% chance is all your problems will disappear. Regarding burn speed, 16x will probably be optimal, I wouldn't go below that, and I'd certainly wouldn't burn at 4x or below. Most of the newer blank CDRs are optimized for high speed burning, back when I did some tests, I got much higher C1 errors burning TY at 4x than at 8x, so I'd say 16 or 24x would give you the best results. If burning TY and 16x won't help you could try hunting down some "blue hue" (forgot what it's called) Verbatim 1-16x CDRs, those usually have better with older CD players. If that doesn't help either you could try getting your hands on Plextor Premium1/2 and play with varirec/powerec/gigarec which might help your cause.

Although, to be honest at this point you're better off buying new cd player that actually works. If your player can't play Taiyo Yuden your cd player is crap and should be replaced anyway.

Elixer · Post by **Elixer** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:44 pm

Burn Quality? Maybe someone can explain this to me, because I just think of it as "it works" or "it doesn't work". How do you judge the quality of a burn except by seeing if it works?

JazzJackRabbit · Post by **JazzJackRabbit** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:46 am

Elixer wrote:Burn Quality? Maybe someone can explain this to me, because I just think of it as "it works" or "it doesn't work". How do you judge the quality of a burn except by seeing if it works?

http://forum.cdfreaks.com/showthread.ph ... adid=61943
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=75573

I'm too lazy to search for more, but the two threads above should give you a nice intro into cd burning. Although the threads I linked apply only to CD, same principle works for DVDs, you can get a good DVD burn or bad one, there are multitude of tools to test both CDs and DVDs... I'll shut up now as this topic is too huge for me to cover.

halcyon · Post by **halcyon** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:03 am

Burn quality
========
Binary data is encoded as analog reflectivity variation on the dye. The amount of reading jitter and resulting reading PIE/POE (and subsequent failures) is what defines the quality of the writing (and reading). In simple english: burn quality varies A LOT and it's not just "works" or "does not work". For better understanding read Optical Disc Technology Magazine and ECMA standards on DVD error correction.

Burn lower speed
=============
Many modern drivers CAN burn at a lower speed (down to 4x, sometimes 2.4x), IF their firmware allows for it OR you use a disc that has also a rated lower speed. These include Pioneer DVR-112, Plextor PX-760, Samsung SHS-182, etc.

Burn Speed vs Quality
================
Roughly:
- 8x is almost always better quality than 16x burn (same disc type)
- 4x is mostly better than 8x burn (on same disc type)
- 2.4x varies (or I don't have enough data to conclude)

It's NOT the same for CD discs, where laser power/rotational speed at 12-16x seems to be a decent compromise when aiming for lowest jitter.

Obligatory NOISE tip
==============
- Get a drive you can throttle down with a utility (Samsung with MagicSpeed or Plextor with Plextools Pro). If you want a Plextor, you better hurry, because the last genuine in-house Plextor (not a rebrand) was PX-760 and it has almost completely disappeared from the retail chain.

CoolColJ · Post by **CoolColJ** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:09 pm

just get a Pioneer 112 for IDE of 212 for SATA

IdontexistM8 · Post by **IdontexistM8** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:19 pm

I find 8x for 16x DVDRs and 16 or 24x for CDRs is the sweetspot for quality. But it will entirely depend on media and drives. I always buy quality media as the difference in price is much lower than in the past.