HDD is the noisiest...replace it with a flash drive?

shamrock · Post by **shamrock** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:17 am

Hi all,

I've decided to build a silent download box for my room so it has to be inaudible from 1.5-2M away.

I just came to the realization that the HDD that I will be using is old and definately not quite...

So can't I just run a Linux distro from a flash drive? Say Puppy Linux or something similar, all the computer will be used for is to run a bittorent client.

Then all my downloads can be stored on my main PC which is networked via Ethernet...

Will this work?

Thanks.

nutball · Post by **nutball** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:28 am

shamrock wrote:Will this work?

Yes, though using a good 2.5" HDD might be more straightforward, equally inaudible and you'll get more storage (and probably performance) for your dollar.

There are different types of flash drive -- which are you referring to? A USB key is probably the least likely to be easy (I haven't tried), better to use a CF->IDE convertor and a CF card, or a disk-on-module or similar.

shamrock · Post by **shamrock** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:33 am

I was thinking just a normal USB flash drive as I know distros such as Puppy Linux run of them.

Cheers.

Firetech · Post by **Firetech** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:51 am

shamrock wrote:I was thinking just a normal USB flash drive as I know distros such as Puppy Linux run of them.

Cheers.

I have to pretty much agree with nutball but it depends on your set-up and the way you intend to use it. Most USB drives apparently have a limited read/write lifespan and torrenting would probably kill one pretty quickly.
The USB drive is usually set-up only for booting the OS and then allowing storing data elsewhere. i.e. on a local HDD (not what you want) or a network drive (USB box running as a 'thin client') but that needs another PC running elsewhere.
The question then is, if there is another PC running elsewhere, why not just use it to DL the torrents?

wwenze · Post by **wwenze** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:29 pm

Maybe his other PC is in the same room and is very loud, that's why he needs another silent solution.

Given that you torrent overnight, I can guess that you're going to download a lot, in which case a 4GB or 8GB drive may not be sufficient in the long run if you want to be convenient instead of transferring files every other day. And what if you're downloading a 6GB file that couldn't complete within 1 week, that'd kill off all other downloadings because there just isn't any space for the downloading files.

Furthermore, the amount of money and effort needed to build another box can be channelled towards silencing your main rig, which will give you greater satisfaction. Unless you're running a top-end gfx card like x1950Pro and above then cooling becomes more demanding, but still possible.
The only problematic component left would then be the HDD, but then for the money spent on big flash drives, you can get a external HDD and hide it deep in your closet.

shamrock · Post by **shamrock** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:04 pm

Hmmm yea I forgot about re-writes, that would probably be a problem.

The question then is, if there is another PC running elsewhere, why not just use it to DL the torrents?

Noise. My other PC is this:

CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 (G0 Stepping) w/stock HSF
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-P35-S3
Memory: Corsair 2GB 667MHz Value RAM
Hard Drive: W.D 120GB HDD
Graphics Card: XpertVision HD2600Pro
Case: Coolermaster Mystique 632S
PSU: Coolermaster eXtreme 430W
Monitor: Samsung 226BW

The noisiest component is the 2600pro and as far as I am aware there are no aftermarket VGA coolers for them.

Plus, I'm re-using old components to make this download box, it's only going to cost $150 at the most...hopefully. =)

The hard drive that I could use is a 40GB Maxtor 3.5". It's pretty noisy which is why I'm hesitant to use it. 40GB is fine in terms of size BTW.

Could I put the 40GB hard drive in a small enclosure (DIY..), how much room for air flow do they need?

Or should I suspend it with elastic?

Furthermore, the amount of money and effort needed to build another box can be channelled towards silencing your main rig, which will give you greater satisfaction.

Can it be done with my above rig?

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:25 pm

that's an insanely crappy drive. i would just put a black and decker drill in my case and tape the trigger, that would be quieter.

2.5 inch drives are what you want. they are cheap, slower the better (within reason I guess.) i wouldnt think that maxtor really pounds out the megs/second anyways. i understand cheap, but loud is losing the point. the usb idea isnt bad, just bad long term. It takes a while for the drive to fry.

wwenze · Post by **wwenze** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:17 am

I'm assuming your WD is a Caviar. Ok now that's loud.

CPU -> I'd go for hybrid fanless/low/high-fan-speed cooling, since budget is tight and still serves your purpose of quiet downloading.

Gigabyte P35 boards support undervolting. You're in luck. Just set the voltage and speed to the lowest you can get using CrystalCPUID and you should cut the power consumption by a lot, more than what EIST can offer.

And with CrystalCPUID, you can disable EIST and make your own voltage/speed settings. The best thing about this is being able to run @ near stock speeds with the voltage @ the lowest you're allowed to set.

With much lower power when idle compared to load, you're safe to go for semi-fanless/low airflow, and the choice of HSF for this would be:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835185038

Ah yes, the Ninja, I would called it overhyped in these forums if not for it being really good at passive/low-airflow cooling.

Hmm got sale going on? $35 bucks? Now that's a steal. Better get it quick.

Else, you can also go for Hyper-TX2, which gives good performance for its price, and is quiet enough for people over at my country's forum to complain of it being too slow
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... er%2bhyper*

GFX -> I do see mounting holes for this card - that means 3rd-party coolers. Those holes are the same distance as the x1600 series, and those have 3rd-party heatsinks.

Accelero S2 looks good, and since HD2600Pro isn't a hot card, this fanless solution may do well. Hey, it says it supports up to 5950 series.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835186017

PSU -> the current one is ok less the fan. If you're willing to go for a fan swap... this PSU should be up to the task since it's relatively solid.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835185049
This got to work.

If not, spend a bit more and get:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817151033

430W seems like the minimum nowadays? You can always go for the 380W or 330W (maybe 330W might be pushing it...)

Total damage thus far, with discounts: $137 excluding shipping for the Ninja + Seasonic,
Or $57 excluding shipping if going for Hyper TX2 and fan swap. But seriously, with the discount on, spend $5 and get the Ninja I don't see why not.

Now, the ^$%#$% HDD. Hmm... can you convince yourself that you need to spend the extra $70 to get a 120GB notebook drive?

Else you'd have to use an external enclosure and hide it deep in your closet, at the expense of performance.

shamrock · Post by **shamrock** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:45 am

wwenze wrote:I'm assuming your WD is a Caviar. Ok now that's loud.

Yea I'm pretty sure it is. =/

wwenze wrote:And with CrystalCPUID, you can disable EIST and make your own voltage/speed settings. The best thing about this is being able to run @ near stock speeds with the voltage @ the lowest you're allowed to set.

Awesome, just as a BTW, my Q6600 runs at 28-30c idle with my two 120mm CM fans in the Mystique with stock hsf.

wwenze wrote:With much lower power when idle compared to load, you're safe to go for semi-fanless/low airflow, and the choice of HSF for this would be:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835185038

I'm in Australia btw so Newegg is a no-go. =(

The cheapest I can find the Scythe Ninja plus in Australia is $69aud.

wwenze wrote:GFX -> I do see mounting holes for this card - that means 3rd-party coolers. Those holes are the same distance as the x1600 series, and those have 3rd-party heatsinks.

Really? Awesome. =)

Will the Accelero S2 definately fit? I found it for 37 bucks in Australia.

wwenze wrote:If you're willing to go for a fan swap... this PSU should be up to the task since it's relatively solid.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835185049
This got to work.

I've swapped a fan in a PSU before so it shouldn't be a problem. =)

I thought the fan on my PSU was an 80mm fan though..?

Can you please pick me a fan from these? As I'm not sure what Scythe newegg has listed..

http://www.pccasegear.com/category326_1.htm

Thanks. =)

wwenze wrote:Now, the ^$%#$% HDD. Hmm... can you convince yourself that you need to spend the extra $70 to get a 120GB notebook drive?

Umm... I'm on a tight budget. How much do I need to spend on a hard drive?

wwenze wrote:Else you'd have to use an external enclosure and hide it deep in your closet, at the expense of performance.

How would I do that?

Thanks for your help! These forums are great. =)

StApostol · Post by **StApostol** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:10 am

Just yesterday I moved my OS disk outside the case using eSata. Performance is the same as internal Sata, and the beast (old 160GB WD Caviar) is silenced at last. Even turned off AAM, for a bit of extra performance!

You don't even need expensive parts. I'm going to build two alleycats as soon as I can find the correct metal boxes, but for now I just used an old empty cardboard box, filled it with an old t-shirt, opened two 8cm holes to the far sides and a single low-speed 8cm fan I had lying around. A fan filter on the other side (just to keep annoying insects and dust out of the box), and it was ready. Did wonders for noise, too: the notorious WD idle whine is gone, and I can only hear seeks if a concentrate. In comparison, the Samsung 501LJ (suspended inside my computer) is very annoying.

Really, consider putting some distance between your HD's and your ears. ESata supports up to 2 meters of cable, at no performance loss.

shamrock · Post by **shamrock** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:24 am

My motherboard does not have eSata unfortunately.

Although I'm assuming there is a way to add it on..

Like this?

I have a cupboard next to my desk but I'd say I would need more than 2M of cable since it's on the other side to my case.

wwenze · Post by **wwenze** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:48 am

Oh you're in Australia, that'd make it harder and more expensive to get things, my bad.

And regarding the fitting part, my bad again, it's not good to assume things based on looks alone, because it might fit but not totally as according to here:
http://www.goldfries.com/hardware-revie ... le-review/

Looks like the S2 might not work, but I know Zalman's coolers must fit the holes, because there are HD2600XTs sold with Zalman coolers, and HD2600Pro uses either the same or similar PCB as HD2600XT. Plus, I swear those holes really look like those of X1600 series to me, which also didn't had third party coolers but there were many with Zalman HSFs equipped...
Plus: 1 case of HD2600XT with VF-900
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthrea ... post452723

Maybe you should see if the holes fit any of these lengths:
http://www.zalman.co.kr/images/product_ ... 900_01.gif

shamrock wrote: I've swapped a fan in a PSU before so it shouldn't be a problem. =)

I thought the fan on my PSU was an 80mm fan though..?

The older version of eXtremePower? The new ones are already on 120mm, but the old ones are still quite solid performers.

shamrock wrote: Can you please pick me a fan from these? As I'm not sure what Scythe newegg has listed..

Thanks. =)

Actually, a good fan need not be expensive or hard to find. Just get a basic black fan, sleeve bearing, slow RPM (check the specs b4 buying if possible, if not look out for "L" near the back of the model number, usually indicates "low" speed), no need for bling like led.

Because most fans with the same bearing (sleeve is quieter) will sound similar at the same RPM, so there's no real need to get S-Flex, Nexus, or SilentX (they don't make their own fans anyway, they simply paste their logo on). But for safety, go for better brands like Yate Loon, Papst, Panaflo, Evercool (there's Everflow also, but somehow I only like the other), maybe Adda, but make sure it's a slower one, because many PSUs use Adda so you may end up getting the same fan.

If you can find Coolermaster fans cheap, those aren't bad either. See above reason.

shamrock wrote: Umm... I'm on a tight budget. How much do I need to spend on a hard drive?

A 120GB 2.5" costs $70 on newegg as I previously wrote, 60GB costs $50, but I recommend the other solution,

shamrock wrote:
wwenze wrote:Else you'd have to use an external enclosure and hide it deep in your closet, at the expense of performance.
How would I do that?

For a bootable HDD with OS already installed, you might just need to put the HDD into the enclosure, choose boot from USB-HDD in BIOS, and it might just work with all drive letters correct.

I missed out the eSATA option though, since length of both data and power cable can be a problem compared to using USB enclosure. And it only works for SATA. But at no speed penalty and is more compatible (since it is recognized as a SATA drive) it would all be worth it.

Just as the post above me has mentioned, placing the HDD out of the PC far away and into massive dampening is a cheap way and most effective way of silencing just about anything. Sure, some people consider putting your entire PC in your closet (or in another room) as cheating, but others are considering NAS and remote clients (like what you are thinking) as the final solution.

My archival HDD is currently under a table and underneath tons of stuff, can't hear anything too.

Heck, maybe you should consider putting the rig under the table and covered by cardboard boxes.

I can't because the bottom is full of stuff.

shamrock wrote: Thanks for your help! These forums are great. =)

Glad I could be of help.

wwenze · Post by **wwenze** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:50 am

shamrock wrote:My motherboard does not have eSata unfortunately.

Although I'm assuming there is a way to add it on..

Like this?

I have a cupboard next to my desk but I'd say I would need more than 2M of cable since it's on the other side to my case.

eSATA is actually... just SATA. Like the thing in your link, it just extends the connection to the back panel, and nothing's stopping you from connecting to the mainboard directly.

Finding a long enough power cable is more of a problem though. But fortunately, 230V->4-pin molex adaptors exist, I have one now.

StApostol · Post by **StApostol** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:01 am

Many (most?) plain sata ports can be turned into eSata with such an add-on. Unfortunately, some very old motherboards (think before eSata was born) may have problems with the more stringent eSata timing requirements. I don't know when eSata was introduced, but I'd assume around 2004, so if your mobo is newer there shouldn't be any problems. Better google around a bit for more specific information, however.

In any case, 3.5$ is no big loss if it turns out that it doesn't work. Keep in mind that you will need an eSata cable and a sata disk to try this out.

That cupboard would be nice, but I don't think eSata will work on large distances. You'll also have to think about powering the disk - you can probably find (or build) longer cables with molex plugs that you can connect to your PSU.

If you go by cost, eSata is the most cost-effective solution. The 2.5'' goes next, with the USB key last (price-wise, and barring NAS boxes!) Another excellent solution would be an alleycat enclosure (second place price-wise). A properly built alleycat should silence even that Maxtor drill - eh, drive. Run a search in these forums, it could be the perfect one for your problem!

One last note about USB keys: at first I thought one of these would be the best solution for my PC-router, but I was never able to get it to work correctly. I am now using an old Fireball 2.1GB disk (anyone remember those?), which I'll replace with a CF IDE adapter this week.

Edit: beaten

shamrock · Post by **shamrock** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:20 am

I am now using an old Fireball 2.1GB disk (anyone remember those?)

I have one! =)

Thanks for all the info guys, some food for though I guess.

I'm still thinking about it, and I can't decide whether to silence my main rig or rebuild a download box...

Solid Snake · Post by **Solid Snake** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:10 pm

Flash drives have limited WRITE cycles and unlimited READ cycles. If you're using Linux, that means going with ext2 and possibly no swap. If you've got a server nearby you can stick in your basement, 4GB locally is no problem. Because of the risk of killing the flash after a while, I'd suggest going with a software RAID1 array. When one drive kicks the bucket a few years from now, drive down to the store, pick up another and install it without missing a beat.

Zed Lopez · Post by **Zed Lopez** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:05 pm

You can run small Linux distros from a flash drive. Remote mount /var,
/tmp, and maybe /home on your main PC, and use a swap file there instead of a local swap partition (make sure you have enough memory that you don't much need swap, and configure it for low swappiness.) Then you'll be writing almost nothing to the flash drive and the limited writes issue should take a long, long time to come up.

lung · Post by **lung** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 5:22 pm

Pretty sure you can do it on linux, but not positive. Should be able to mount /tmp to a ramdisk. I do this on openbsd for both security and speed (not needing to encrypt tmp or cleaning it.) Assuming you had enough ram to do this or your tmp is small.

No one is really sure how long flash drives will last. We know what manufacturers claim which is different from reality. Not that many people are conscripting flash into service as a drive to know the details really. If you go by the numbers of many flash drives CF USB whatever. You will see even at maximum write speeds non stop they would last longer than any regular consumer harddrive you would use due to wear leveling (done internally now.)

Modern flash drives also wear level old information. So if say you have static data that never changes it will eventually just move the data out of the way to start wearing down that unused section.

smilingcrow · Post by **smilingcrow** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:36 pm

shamrock wrote:
wwenze wrote:And with CrystalCPUID, you can disable EIST and make your own voltage/speed settings. The best thing about this is being able to run @ near stock speeds with the voltage @ the lowest you're allowed to set.
Awesome, just as a BTW, my Q6600 runs at 28-30c idle with my two 120mm CM fans in the Mystique with stock hsf.

CrystalCPUID is limited to the natural voltage range of the CPU and since your Gigabyte supports under-volting youâ€™ll get better results setting the voltage in the BIOS. I managed 1.05V with a Q6600 G0 in the same board at stock speed. Doing that saved 7W at idle and 15.5W under load compared to software under-volting.
It becomes easier and cheaper to cool the CPU silently at that voltage as youâ€™d imagine.

ntavlas · Post by **ntavlas** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:33 pm

I vote for the 2,5' drive as well. While they are not as quiet as a low speed fan for example, they don`t need any additional cooling so you can use drastic measures to quiet them.

theycallmebruce · Post by **theycallmebruce** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:24 am

I got one URL for you mate:

http://www.pendrivelinux.com

Instructions on how to run many popular distros off USB flash.

I am running Ubuntu 7.10, and it's great. Partitions which are written to a lot (eg /tmp, several in /var) are mounted in RAM to conserve the life of your flash disk.

Also, all flash disks are not equal! There is a big difference in the speed of different disks. I am in Aus too, and I bought a 4GB Corsair Flash Voyager GT (that GT is important, there is a Flash Voyager too), which is extremely fast (although a little more pricey than most).

HDD is the noisiest...replace it with a flash drive?

HDD is the noisiest...replace it with a flash drive?

Re: HDD is the noisiest...replace it with a flash drive?