Two 80 gig Barracuda IVs or one Barracuda V 120?

HearNoEvil · Post by **HearNoEvil** » Wed May 14, 2003 5:08 am

Hi tere,
In the quest for that lovely silent computer, I am trying to find out if two 80 gig Barracuda IVs are more quiet than one single 120 gig Barracuda V.

Looking at Seagate's spec sheets, and indeed in this forum, the Barracuda IV 80 gig is slightly more quiet than the 120 gig of the Barracuda V (some 3-4 DB, I think it is).

I'm aiming for a storage solution which is as quiet as possible and is around 120-160 gigs.

Any ideas?

tragus · Post by **tragus** » Wed May 14, 2003 6:47 am

If you have two sound sources that measure exactly the same dB SPL individually, then the combination will be 6 dB greater. For example, if you have two drives at 25 dB SPL each, then two will create a 31 dB SPL level. That's the laws of physics.

Another rule of thumb: 10 dB increase is approximately twice as "loud". 1 difference is insignificant and 2 dB is very near the threshold of difference (in the best of conditions).

[disclaimer] Actual individual and combined levels will, of course, vary according placement, distance, frequency content, and phase of the moon.

aphonos · Post by **aphonos** » Wed May 14, 2003 7:12 am

If you are looking for a silent solution, I agree with tragus--one drive.

Here is my experience, just to give you another point of view. (Isn't it crazy when we ask questions like "Which is quieter, one really quiet HDD or two really quiet HDDs?" We are a bunch of acoustic freaks.

)

I went with 2 60GB 'Cuda V's for a small performance reason. I partitioned my drives such that my applications run on the outer edge [C:] of drive #1 and my swap file runs on the outer edge [G:] of drive #2. That way I have slightly better disk access times. This setup also allows me to store an image of my applications [C:] drive and most important data [D:] on drive #2 for backup purposes. (I also copy that image to an external HDD as well, just because of my neurotic personality

)

I went with the 60GB 'cudas because they are single platter, which is theoretically slightly quieter than the double platter 80GB or 120GB drives.

My drives are suspended with 3/16" bungee cord in a somewhat padded case. I don't notice the sound of the drives over the noise of my Seasonic PSU fan.

YMMV

Post by **MikeC** » Wed May 14, 2003 7:30 am

If you have two sound sources that measure exactly the same dB SPL individually, then the combination will be 6 dB greater. For example, if you have two drives at 25 dB SPL each, then two will create a 31 dB SPL level. That's the laws of physics.

Close but not quite. They add to 3 dB, not 6. +6dB is what you would get with 4 identical sound sources.

The other option is a Samsung. See the recent review on the main site.

HearNoEvil · Post by **HearNoEvil** » Wed May 14, 2003 7:49 am

Hmmmm.... so, if there is only a 3db increase of noise with a double Barracuda IV 80 gig drive solution, then the noise level is pretty much going to be on par with that of a single Barracuda V 120G drive.

Then I guess it's all down to performance of the drives and those extra 40 gigs, which I will be getting using two barracuda IVs. The choice is pretty obvious, I think

Gotta be the double Barracuda IV solution!

tragus · Post by **tragus** » Wed May 14, 2003 8:13 am

MikeC wrote: Close but not quite. They add to 3 dB, not 6. +6dB is what you would get with 4 identical sound sources.

Dang, of course you're right

*Intensities* add, not amplitudes. I used the wrong formula. Unfortunately, this is one of those things that I've never memorized, so I have to re-review it every time I teach. Obviously, I should do the same before I post.

2X intensity=> 3dB increase.

Now, I've just got to go back figuring out the level of a noise if I know the level of an individual frequency component...

To the original post, aphonos reminds me about the trade-off between performance and sound. I run RAID systems at the lab because I *need* the speed for data acquisition. If I could, I'd drop it to a single data disk + a separate system disk. However, in my application, the performance hit for going with a single drive for both OS AND data is too great, despite decrease in levels.

Mr_Smartepants · Post by **Mr_Smartepants** » Wed May 14, 2003 10:10 am

Well, I just ordered two 80Gig 'cuda IV's (see this link)

I'll let everyone know how they compare to my brand new Maxtor.

Post by **MikeC** » Wed May 14, 2003 11:56 am

Mr_Smartepants -- there are 2 other potential downside of 2 drives:

1) the heat of course. The 'cudas seem to run hot; they produce a max of 12.6W each; 26.2W total. One 120G B-V produces 12.5W. This might or might not have some impact on overall heat/fan cooling requirement.

2) "intermodulation" noise. Basically when you have two sounds that are almost identical in frequency, you get get a 3rd sound that is like a difference tone bewteen the two. It is called intermodulation distortion in hi-fi audio circles. You can hear it when you're tuning a guitar, for example, as two strings get closer and closer in frequency, a kind of fluttering starts happening between them. The fluttering noise becomes slower and slower as the freq. gets real close until they are right on, and then it stops. This happens with drives and fans too. With the drives it is probably not so much the 7200 rpm noise (because the whine is not there in the cudas) but the 120Hz bearing rotation noise. I heard in one of my dual drive systems from time to time till I suspended both drives.

Mr_Smartepants · Post by **Mr_Smartepants** » Wed May 14, 2003 12:08 pm

You're right Mike, I didn't think about the heat issue. Luckily, since I already have my 120mm L1A (5V) directly behind the drive trays, I shouldn't have a heat problem but we'll see (I don't at the moment).
As to the intermodulation noise, I know exactly what you're talking about. Hopefully since these drives are a whole lot quieter and don't whine so much, intermodulation should be slight and hopefully the Melamine will absorb it. I might just tack a few sandwiched sheets of Melamine to the empty drive trays and separate the Seagates with one or two foam-filled trays to get more noise damping.

I'll report back with my findings.

Liquidated · Post by **Liquidated** » Wed May 14, 2003 8:42 pm

I gotta admit, that article mikec wrote up on drives pushed back my purchase of a new HD. That samsung makes me drool =).

Cheers!
-Liq

Mr_Smartepants · Post by **Mr_Smartepants** » Thu May 22, 2003 10:02 am

Well I got my two 'cuda IV's yesterday and I did some quick testing. Both drives are the same model number (ST380021A) but the product part numbers differ somewhat. One ends in -103 the other in -301. One has an OEM disclaimer statement on the label, the other appears to be retail labeled. The other difference was in the firmware revisions. One was 3.75, the other was 3.13. Does the firmware make that much of a difference? And can it be updated?
The OEM labeled cuda has a noticable bearing whine to it (bad bearings?). The retail labeled cuda is so silent I had to hold it AGAINST my cheek bone to hear it through bone-conduction! WOW, that drive is quiet. I'll be holding on to that one! It's definately quieter than my new Maxtor. I'll be keeping both the Maxtor and cuda but I'm selling the other, noisier cuda to a buddy who doesn't care about noise.
Before anyone asks, yes I made sure the acoustic management was set to Quiet on both drives.

somebody · Post by **somebody** » Thu May 22, 2003 2:51 pm

Has anyone tried out the OEM version of the 40GB barracuda? Does it have the whine that Mr_Smarterpants is describing. I'm wondering because I am considering buying one.

Curtis · Post by **Curtis** » Fri May 23, 2003 4:07 am

If it is the 7200.7 you are talking about, then I can tell you that I had a few problems with it in terms of whine. Mine arrived and started to make a very loud while from the first time I turned it on. I sent it back to the shop and got my money back as they said it was normal.

Do keep in mind that the problem could have been in my power supply (cheap Codegen), or it may have been a one-off faulty drive - I have nothing to compare it to...

Post by **Ralf Hutter** » Fri May 23, 2003 4:39 am

somebody wrote:Has anyone tried out the OEM version of the 40GB barracuda? Does it have the whine that Mr_Smarterpants is describing. I'm wondering because I am considering buying one.

I have a 1½ year old OEM 40GB cuda IV that has been in daily use and has no bearing whine, but I did get another 40GB OEM about 6 months ago that was pretty whiney (sp?).

Since then I've switched to using only retail HDDs because I have a theory that the OEM drives are mistreated due to their lack of any protective packaging. Every HDD that I've ever had fail was an OEM drive. I've never (knock wood!) had a retail-boxed HDD go bad.

HearNoEvil · Post by **HearNoEvil** » Fri May 23, 2003 6:06 am

Yikes - I nad NO IDEA that there was any difference between the OEM drives and the retail ones: They should be completely identical a part from the extra nice box and cables being thrown in with the retail ones. But maybe I'm just too naive

Seems to me that the more you look into these matters, the more questions build up

Anyways, thanks for all the info from you guys, especially Mr_Smartepants and Mr Ralf Hutter from Kraftwerk (mmmmm....my favorite band, but hey: That's completely off topic!

)

rpc180 · Post by **rpc180** » Fri May 23, 2003 8:41 am

While I can't comment on the retail version of the B-IV, I have two OEM B-IV drives at 40GB. There's a slight whine that's audible late at night 1am-3am) from .7 meters. But after 1 meter the sound is inaudible.

somebody · Post by **somebody** » Fri May 23, 2003 10:52 am

I just checked my 80GB IV. It has a slight whine. I purchased it from Fry's a few weeks ago. The only IVs they had at the time were open box 80GB so I just bought it. I turns out there is a sticker on the drive that says it is OEM.

Mr_Smartepants · Post by **Mr_Smartepants** » Sat May 24, 2003 2:47 am

I ordered my two 80gb drives from the same company (Bason Computers/Pricewatch). They were advertised as OEM drives and I ordered 2 ea of the same drive. Just my luck that they send two seemingly identical drives with different part numbers (same model number though). The manufactured date code was very similar too (two months difference). I can only speculate that the part numbers themselves may be a prime indication of bearing quality.

The Part number on my whiney cuda IV is: 9T6006-103
The Part number on my SILENT cuda IV is: 9T6006-301

Hope this helps someone.

Post by **Ralf Hutter** » Sat May 24, 2003 5:08 am

Mr_Smartepants wrote:I ordered my two 80gb drives from the same company (Bason Computers/Pricewatch). They were advertised as OEM drives and I ordered 2 ea of the same drive. Just my luck that they send two seemingly identical drives with different part numbers (same model number though). The manufactured date code was very similar too (two months difference). I can only speculate that the part numbers themselves may be a prime indication of bearing quality.

The Part number on my whiney cuda IV is: 9T6006-103
The Part number on my SILENT cuda IV is: 9T6006-301

Hope this helps someone.

Just to stir the pot up a little more I'll throw this into the mix. I just looked at the part numbers on two of my retail box 80GB drives and they're both "9T6006-003", different than either of yours! But they're marked "OEM" on the lower part of the label even though I know for a fact they came out of retail boxes, one from Best buy, the other from Fry's. WTF is that about?

I just pulled my oldest 80GB cuda IV to look at it. I bought it from Mwave.com in late '01 and it was sold as an OEM drive and was packed in just the plastic "Sea-clamshell" thingy. It's PN is 9T6006-301 and it's dead quiet, even after 1+ year of running 8-10 hrs/day.

pingu666 · Post by **pingu666** » Sat May 24, 2003 5:50 am

why didnt u buy the 7200.7 80gig?:)

Mr_Smartepants · Post by **Mr_Smartepants** » Sat May 24, 2003 7:37 am

pingu666 wrote:why didnt u buy the 7200.7 80gig?:)

Well from reading these forums, I was under the impression that the Cuda IV was quieter than the Cuda V which is quieter than the 7200.7

So even though it's a few generations back, it's still the reigning champ of silence and by golly! My Cuda IV is! (or one anyway).

somebody · Post by **somebody** » Sat May 24, 2003 9:34 am

Ralf Hutter wrote:
Mr_Smartepants wrote:I ordered my two 80gb drives from the same company (Bason Computers/Pricewatch). They were advertised as OEM drives and I ordered 2 ea of the same drive. Just my luck that they send two seemingly identical drives with different part numbers (same model number though). The manufactured date code was very similar too (two months difference). I can only speculate that the part numbers themselves may be a prime indication of bearing quality.

The Part number on my whiney cuda IV is: 9T6006-103
The Part number on my SILENT cuda IV is: 9T6006-301

Hope this helps someone.
Just to stir the pot up a little more I'll throw this into the mix. I just looked at the part numbers on two of my retail box 80GB drives and they're both "9T6006-003", different than either of yours! But they're marked "OEM" on the lower part of the label even though I know for a fact they came out of retail boxes, one from Best buy, the other from Fry's. WTF is that about?

I just pulled my oldest 80GB cuda IV to look at it. I bought it from Mwave.com in late '01 and it was sold as an OEM drive and was packed in just the plastic "Sea-clamshell" thingy. It's PN is 9T6006-301 and it's dead quiet, even after 1+ year of running 8-10 hrs/day.

The open box IV that I bought from Fry's also has a part number ending with 003. I remember reading something on SiliconAcoustics about all drives being OEM. Could that be why the drives have OEM markings?

Post by **Ralf Hutter** » Sun May 25, 2003 3:52 am

somebody wrote:
Ralf Hutter wrote:
Mr_Smartepants wrote:I ordered my two 80gb drives from the same company (Bason Computers/Pricewatch). They were advertised as OEM drives and I ordered 2 ea of the same drive. Just my luck that they send two seemingly identical drives with different part numbers (same model number though). The manufactured date code was very similar too (two months difference). I can only speculate that the part numbers themselves may be a prime indication of bearing quality.

The Part number on my whiney cuda IV is: 9T6006-103
The Part number on my SILENT cuda IV is: 9T6006-301

Hope this helps someone.
Just to stir the pot up a little more I'll throw this into the mix. I just looked at the part numbers on two of my retail box 80GB drives and they're both "9T6006-003", different than either of yours! But they're marked "OEM" on the lower part of the label even though I know for a fact they came out of retail boxes, one from Best buy, the other from Fry's. WTF is that about?

I just pulled my oldest 80GB cuda IV to look at it. I bought it from Mwave.com in late '01 and it was sold as an OEM drive and was packed in just the plastic "Sea-clamshell" thingy. It's PN is 9T6006-301 and it's dead quiet, even after 1+ year of running 8-10 hrs/day.

The open box IV that I bought from Fry's also has a part number ending with 003. I remember reading something on SiliconAcoustics about all drives being OEM. Could that be why the drives have OEM markings?

Well, the funny thing is, is that my oldest drive (the "-301" that was sold w/o a box as an OEM drive by Mwave.com) is actually marked as a retail drive. It has a different label than my other drives and the words "OEM" do not appear anywhere on the label. My other Barracudas, even the ones that came out of retail boxes are marked "OEM" and have a slightly different label design.

Two 80 gig Barracuda IVs or one Barracuda V 120?

Two 80 gig Barracuda IVs or one Barracuda V 120?

Yup