Small, fast and silent 2.5" drive?

ziphnor · Post by **ziphnor** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 6:43 am

I recently ordered an AOpen MP45-DR barebone mini-PC which i intend to use as the client part of my HTPC setup. All the media files will be stored on an HTPC server (most likely with 2xCaviar GP 1TB as storage).

I am a bit uncertain what i should choose for the client though. It will only be storing the Vista OS and various HTPC programs, all playback will be over the network from the server. The important thing is being able to boot fast, and launch programs quickly. Low power consumption would be nice but is not critical as the client is turned off when not in use. Noise is a concern, but again, the client is only in use when watching something, and my TV is noisy even with the sound off.

With a trimmed vLite vista install i would probably only need a few GB of space, so about 16GB should be sufficient, which i guess means that i should be considering SSDs? (especially considering that i intend to install 4GB of memory and disable the swap file).

I am however very uncertain what SSD to go with. I have read lots of stuff here and elsewhere about problems with MLC SSDs.

One option is the 16GB MTron Mobi (1800DKK), but its really expensive for such a small drive i think. Its reviewed here:

http://www.nextlevelhardware.com/storage/mobi/

I also dug up a 32GB "Patriot" SLC SSD with a price tag of 1600DKK.

Of course there is also the new OCZ Core V2 (MLC), costing 1600DKK for 30GB.

Finally i could go with a normal 2.5" HDD, say the Scorpio Black 160GB for about 500DKK which is of course a lot cheaper, but also alot slower when it comes to bootup i guess.

I guess the MTron would be the safe bet (at least judging from that review). Are there any reviews of the Core V2? Any advice would be appreciated.

I would also like to hear from anyone that is using SSDs (in particular these but also others).

KlaymenDK · Post by **KlaymenDK** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:47 am

Hej Ziphnor,
I've just bought a WD Scorpio WD3200BEVT 320Gb. I'm still waiting for it to be shipped, so I can't comment on the noise yet. It's a SATA 2 1/2" 5400rpm drive which should be quiet, especially since I plan on soft-mounting it (with rubber bands) in a P182. If you want to wait for it, I can let you know how it is.

I think you'll spend a lot of money on an SSD drive, the technology is just too new still. But that's just my opinion.

Post by **MikeC** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:09 am

The most practical fastest boot drive you can use is a bare WD Velociraptor suspended in a 3.5" drive bay. This thing measures 13 dBA/1m in our anechoic chamber. It's quieter than the Green Power. You can get bare VRs now -- http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=494 -- but the 150gb model is probably impossible to get because corporate customers are snapping them up. So I've been told.... but newegg appears to have them in stock: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822136296

As for SSDs, after reading Anantech's investigative review on the Intel SSD, I would not touch any others except the Samsung. There's an Intel X25M 80gb running as my OS drive right now, and while it is very fast, the speed improvement over a VR is marginal, hardly noticeable at all during boot.

KlaymenDK · Post by **KlaymenDK** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:44 am

13dB?! I may have bought the wrong drive! Just out of curiosity, how did you measure this; I thought your noise floor was about 18dB? Also, I note that WD's own specs only claim 29-34dB... I'm sceptical.

Edit: Another aspect: this drive costs DKK 1.900; the WD3200BEVT I mentioned above costs DKK 430.

Post by **MikeC** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:43 pm

The noise floor in the new semi-anechoic chamber is 11 dBA.

See this post (and the whole thread if you like) viewtopic.php?p=424220#424220

and the last graph on this page:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/news852.html

The VR with the IcePack measures 17 dBA/1m. A GP measures around 15 dBA. Quiet 7200rpm drives like the best WD and Samsung measure 17~19 dBA. Haven't tried a laptop drive yet; I'd guess around 15 dBA or lower for the best 5400s. Maybe 17 dBA for the 7200s.

A 7200rpm 2.5" drive is the other natural choice for speed / low noise.

tehcrazybob · Post by **tehcrazybob** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:47 pm

KlaymenDK wrote:13dB?! I may have bought the wrong drive! Just out of curiosity, how did you measure this; I thought your noise floor was about 18dB? Also, I note that WD's own specs only claim 29-34dB... I'm sceptical.

The SPCR review sample of the Velociraptor is extremely impressive, but that isn't the universal experience. Mine had an intolerably loud high-pitched whine even when removed from the IcePak and suspended, and several other people have reported similar issues. My drive is now sitting in a Scythe Quiet Drive (with one of the thermal pads and half of the silver inner case removed to accomodate the thick drive), and is totally inaudible. As I recall, there was at least one member here with the same setup who could still hear the drive, and was forced to place the 2.5" Scythe enclosure into a 3.5" SQD.

It's a fantastic drive, and you may indeed get one as quiet as Mike's. Then again, you may not - while it's still an excellent drive, you need to be prepared to take a few extra steps.

Post by **MikeC** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:59 pm

tehcrazybob wrote:The SPCR review sample of the Velociraptor is extremely impressive, but that isn't the universal experience. Mine had an intolerably loud high-pitched whine even when removed from the IcePak and suspended, and several other people have reported similar issues. My drive is now sitting in a Scythe Quiet Drive (with one of the thermal pads and half of the silver inner case removed to accomodate the thick drive), and is totally inaudible. As I recall, there was at least one member here with the same setup who could still hear the drive, and was forced to place the 2.5" Scythe enclosure into a 3.5" SQD.

It's a fantastic drive, and you may indeed get one as quiet as Mike's. Then again, you may not - while it's still an excellent drive, you need to be prepared to take a few extra steps.

Actually, we've now had 3 samples go through the lab, and all have had the same acoustics. The original, a bare version, and the new style with a different type of icepack. The last item whines when in the icepack (like the original) -- and the warranty is void if you remove the icepack. When idle bare, they are essentially silent, as quiet as any drive we've ever heard. When seeking, they are audible, but if you have it suspended in elastic, and your system is under the desk on a carpeted floor, it's still mostly inaudible.

tehcrazybob · Post by **tehcrazybob** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:45 pm

Mike, I don't doubt that you have had entirely good samples. Indeed, I'd be willing to believe that most of the drives are quite good. However, I am also not inventing or imagining my drive's noise. It is substantial enough that the bare drive, suspended in an Antec Solo with no enclosure, can be heard from 10-15 feet away in a quiet room. I'm not spending hours with my ear close to the case, trying to hear my drive so I can complain. Before I got my SQD, I noticed the noise instantly every time I entered my computer room.

Based on the observations in this thread, this thread, and this thread, I am not alone with this issue. I can fully understand your support of the drive, but I would like to see you at least start recognizing the sample variance observed by your readers when recommending the drive. We may be unlucky, but we are not alone.

Post by **MikeC** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:31 pm

tehcrazybob --

I don't deny your experience, I'm merely correcting your comment that we have ONE good sample. We have had 3 and all 3 have been the same. Sample variance, whether random or planned, is very difficult to resolve. I also knew that someone would pipe up and say something about their differing experience anyway.

If you want to try to get some idea of numbers, you could post up a simple poll in this forum -- one with only 2 choices:
1) My VR w/o Icepack is noisy at idle.
2) My VR w/o Icepack is quiet at idle.

Tzupy · Post by **Tzupy** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:48 am

Isn't it a difference in noise levels of the VR based on firmware revisions?
Maybe the latest firmware brought extra performance at the cost of extra noise?
If so, can anything be done to lower the noise? Like downgrading the firmware?

Post by **MikeC** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:04 am

Tzupy wrote:Isn't it a difference in noise levels of the VR based on firmware revisions?

I doubt it very much. 2 samples were made on May 15; the 3rd on Aug 7. Bottom line about noise like whine: It is mechanical. I can;t see how idle noise could be affected by firmware. It's still spinning at 10krpm, and it has the same casing, as far as we can tell.

Which makes me wonder whether the casing of the drives owned by those who hear whining is somehow different? Like the 320gb single-platyter WD, maybe? Please take a close look and compare yours to the photos in the review. http://www.silentpcreview.com/article844-page1.html

ziphnor · Post by **ziphnor** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:56 am

MikeC wrote:The most practical fastest boot drive you can use is a bare WD Velociraptor suspended in a 3.5" drive bay.

I dont have a 3.5" drive bay available, the AOpen MP45-DR is only 5cm x 16.5cm x 16.5cm (!) It has room for one slim slot loading optical drive and 1x2.5" HDD.

I know the Velociraptor is an 2.5" drive, but i believe i read somewhere that it is taller than other 2.5" drives (and therefore most likely wouldnt fit). I guess the closest thing would be the Scorpio. Finally, the Velociraptor at about 1200DKK is not that much cheaper than the SSD options, and the extra space will simply be wasted for my use.

As for SSDs, after reading Anantech's investigative review on the Intel SSD, I would not touch any others except the Samsung. There's an Intel X25M 80gb running as my OS drive right now, and while it is very fast, the speed improvement over a VR is marginal, hardly noticeable at all during boot.

It certainly does seem like the MLC drives have problems, which is why i was considering the SLC drives instead. The Intel also sounds pretty good, but is way too expensive and also excessive in size.

Aris · Post by **Aris** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:26 pm

Cheapest SLC SSD ive been able to find is this: A Data 32gb SLC SSD

$275, 25 bucks cheaper than the Samsung version that its a copy of. Also 15 bucks less than the 300gb VR. Though now you can get a 150gb VR for $180.

ziphnor · Post by **ziphnor** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:12 am

I found a good offer on the MTron Mobi 16GB SLC SSD and ordered that. I hope it turns out to be as fast as the reviews indicate.

nyu3 · Post by **nyu3** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:32 pm

I just ordered a Momentus 7200.3 320gb drive, along with a Scythe Quiet Drive 2.5 enclosure for $120 total. Hope it will be a good balance of silence, performance, and value.

Cirkus · Post by **Cirkus** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:35 am

KlaymenDK wrote:Hej Ziphnor,
I've just bought a WD Scorpio WD3200BEVT 320Gb. I'm still waiting for it to be shipped, so I can't comment on the noise yet. It's a SATA 2 1/2" 5400rpm drive which should be quiet, especially since I plan on soft-mounting it (with rubber bands) in a P182. If you want to wait for it, I can let you know how it is.

I think you'll spend a lot of money on an SSD drive, the technology is just too new still. But that's just my opinion.

Have you got the WD Scorpio drive yet?

Cirkus

proc · Post by **proc** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:25 am

Ziphnor,
please let us know how the MTron Mobi performs and, especially, if it freezes during random writes as the OCZ CORE do (I hope it doesn't both for you and for me so I can buy a SSD too

) .

Thanks!

ziphnor · Post by **ziphnor** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:47 am

proc wrote:Ziphnor,
please let us know how the MTron Mobi performs and, especially, if it freezes during random writes as the OCZ CORE do (I hope it doesn't both for you and for me so I can buy a SSD too ) .

Will do (i hope it will arrive this week). None of the reviews i have read have mentioned this freezing behavior, but i do know that its random write performance is not as good as its read performance.

This review i linked to in the first post contains rather alot of tests, including random write tests.

Cirkus · Post by **Cirkus** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:49 am

I just purchased a 2.5" WD3200BEVT drive. See my post in another thread: viewtopic.php?p=433418#433418 for my experiences so far.

Cirkus