Should I buy an SSD now or hold out for 6GPS

gcwebbyuk · Post by **gcwebbyuk** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:48 am

I am about to upgrade from a 7200.12 drive to a SSD.

My new motherboard has sata3 onboard, and I have just noticed that crucial are bringing/brought out sata3 SSD drives - although they only seem to be in 128GB+ sizes

I use my pc mainly for watching films, listening to music, office work, web design and the odd gaming.

Would a SATA3 drive be worth the price hike, or is it worth just sticking with SATA2 SSDs?

I would be using the SSD for my main OS drive (64GB) and then using 2.5" drives for data and archiving to keep the system silent.

So should I get a standard SATA2 SSD - if so which 64GB is best? Or wait a little longer and see if 64gb SATA3 drives are released, or if prices on the 128GB ones come down.

Or alternatively would a silent drive type enclosure help reduce the noise of my 7200.12 till they are reasonable prices? (I have tried suspending the drive etc, its the spin noise that annoys me not the chatter of the heads).

SebRad · Post by **SebRad** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:26 am

Hi, I have a Scythe Quiet Drive and have to say it does noticeably help with drive idle noise. ~Â£30 from Quietpc.com
I think that spinning HDDs are going to be needed for cheap mass storage for some time yet so SQD is worth getting unless think will shortly move to SSD only in PC and mass storage on server out of ear shot.

As for SATA 3 6Gbps I doubt it makes any difference outside of bench marks with current SSDs. Yes the Crucial can read faster than 250MB/s of SATA 2 and then does get a boost from SATA 3 but how often do you need to read large files at faster than 250MB/sec for any length of time that wouldn't be bottle necked elsewhere? The tests suggest the Crucial is competitive in other areas and the price is comparable to other high end SSDs too so it's a sound choice anyway.

Personally I would love an SSD but I'm not jumping yet as I don't have the sort of money a good sized / performing SSD needs. They will only get cheaper and faster anyway!

Regards, Seb

gcwebbyuk · Post by **gcwebbyuk** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:04 am

Thanks Seb

Thats my thoughts as well about speed/cost - but I keep reading that prices are going UP!

The Scythe QuietDrive is something I have looked into, although at the mo I have an intake fan sat in the last 2 5.25" drive bays, so I would have to removed that fan to get the QuietDrive in.

Does the QuietDrive cut down that much drive spinning noise though?

lm · Post by lm » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:19 am

Did you factor in the value of making your system very snappy right away instead of staying more or less sluggish for some more time?

Even faster SSDs later versus fast SSDs now is somewhat diminishing returns. My main reason for not having upgraded is the needed effort to reinstall windows at the same time.

gcwebbyuk · Post by **gcwebbyuk** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:23 am

When I reinstalled my system recently I set it on a 64GB partition with all user folders on a sperate drive ready for a potential 64GB SSD.

I would then use Acronis to image the drive across - thats if it is possible to move in that way - SATA to SSD?

Now that TRIM is widely availble surely SSDs slowing down isnt an issue?

ces · Post by **ces** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:35 am

Get a 30G or 60G OCZ Vertex with a 1.5 firmware update.

You can't go wrong. They are stable. They have proven themselves. They are good enough.

Apple is using up all the excess chip capacity and will be doing so for the next 12 to 18 months.

In 24 months the next two generations of SSD will make the current ones antiquated and prices should have plummeted. That is when to make the big jump.

In the meantime the 30G or 60G OCZ Vertex are on sale. Snap up what you need to carry you over for the next 24 months right now.

gcwebbyuk · Post by **gcwebbyuk** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:55 am

I have just ordered a Scythe Quiet Drive anyway, as I can use it to keep a backup drive quiet if it works well enough and I do go down the SSD route.

In the meantime I will carry on checking out the best SSD to get, currently looking at OCZ Vortex or Crucial M225.

Hopefully the quiet drive will work well and I can stick to a 3.5" for a little longer - will relocate the fan I have in the drive bays for the time being while I test

mozartrules · Post by **mozartrules** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:39 am

The big advantage of the SSD, at least for desktop use, is the reduction in latency. Faster throughput is nice, but I think this is more of a benchmark issue. So go ahead with the existing "slow" drives.

I am waiting for availability of the DH57JG motherboard and will then use a 40Gb Intel SSD as the OS drive with the media being on my main computer. I use a 160Gb Intel drive on the main rig and will never go back (Samsung F2 for data).

SebRad · Post by **SebRad** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:43 am

Hi, I think you'll find the SQD helps noticeably.
I may have come across a bit negative towards SSDs, if you can afford one now. Anand (of Anandtech.com) described it as "the best single upgrade you can do" (or words to that effect)
The Intel 40GB drive is pretty competitively priced Â£90-100 if its spacious enough, it's performance is pretty solid too, apart from sequential write but not an issue in most use.
The Crucial M225 appears to be about the cheapest of the Indilix based drives (which should all perform the same), although I think there will be revised ones with 34nm flash chips. I think the performance will be about the same and potentially lower price - maybe eventually! IIRC G.Skill Falcon II is such a drive.
64GB M225 appears to be Â£130-140 at the moment.
Regards, Seb

dhanson865 · Post by **dhanson865** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:56 am

gcwebbyuk wrote:When I reinstalled my system recently I set it on a 64GB partition with all user folders on a sperate drive ready for a potential 64GB SSD.

I would then use Acronis to image the drive across - thats if it is possible to move in that way - SATA to SSD?

Acronis Trueimage HD will only copy the entire drives contents. So to do it you'll have to:

1. Copy the data from the other larger partitions to another drive
2. delete the data from those partitions and delete the extra partitions
3. use acronis to copy the <64GB partition to the SSD
4. create the partitions again on the traditional hard drive
5. copy the data back to the traditional hard drive

I did this for a coworker recently. Trueimage works fine but it won't just let you copy the boot partition ignoring other data on the drive.

gcwebbyuk · Post by **gcwebbyuk** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:17 am

I already have my OS drive with just OS - and using win7 junction points to set all data - whole of the user folder - to run off the D: drive...

flyingsherpa · Post by **flyingsherpa** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:25 pm

dhanson865 wrote: I did this for a coworker recently. Trueimage works fine but it won't just let you copy the boot partition ignoring other data on the drive.

Ghost can copy a boot partition from one drive to another. I've done it several times. Works well, though a few times I had to use a boot disk to run gdisk to re-initialize the MFT. Once you know that trick, it works great.

ces · Post by **ces** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:40 pm

"The Intel 40GB drive is pretty competitively priced"

Don't forget that Intel requires that you set your board to ACHI. Older boards can't do that. And I just discovered to my dismay that while an 1156 board with the H57 support chips will do ACHI, the boards that use the H55 support chips can only support IDE.

The Crucial M225 appears to be about the cheapest of the Indilix based drives. It seems to be a good one. It works with both IDE and ACHI, though you can only update the firmware using an IDE system.

The OCZ Vertex only gets along well with IDE systems.

corrion · Post by **corrion** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:52 pm

ces wrote:"The Intel 40GB drive is pretty competitively priced"

Don't forget that Intel requires that you set your board to ACHI. Older boards can't do that.

I have the Kingston 40GB SSD (practically the same version), and I actually have problems with AHCI mode. It's running IDE mode right now in my Dell Vostro 1400, no problems at all.

Zargon · Post by **Zargon** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:46 pm

waiting for 6gb sata seems silly.

since current ones dont even max out 1.5gbs

Post by **CA_Steve** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:29 pm

Here's a nice 1-page look at various SSDs vs a Raptor and the Momentus 5400 @ Anandtech.

The step up in performance from a rotating drive to nearly any SSD with a half decent controller is huge. The performance step up between a moderately priced SSD and a high priced SSD doesn't seem to be worth the extra bucks unless you are using it for some time critical work where a 10-15% improvement is worth it.

I broke down and bought the 60GB Agility from NewEgg when it was on sale (with rebate) for $130. Couldn't hold out for my personal bar of 60GB @ $100...Haven't installed it as the boot drive, yet (want to do a clean install to fix some other issues). Have installed it as a data drive to try it out, confirm it's working. Writes speeds per ATTO are about 20% faster than my WD640AAKS, read speeds are 200% faster.

I wouldn't wait for Sata3 drives.

QuietOC · Post by **QuietOC** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:09 pm

CA_Steve wrote:I broke down and bought the 60GB Agility from NewEgg when it was on sale (with rebate) for $130.

I got one of those too, and it works quite well as a boot drive for Windows 7 Professional and my games and apps. It seems to be a good deal slower than the 120GB Agility, but still in the same ballpark as the other Indilinx drives. I have a 80GB X25-M G2 at work but can't really compare the two as that drive is running OSX 10.5.8.

gcwebbyuk · Post by **gcwebbyuk** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:58 pm

Scythe QuietDrive turned up today - installed - seems to make quite a difference - I can still hear a little chatter, but it is much better than before

May even get a 2nd and put my 1TB 7200.11 drive in it rather than use it in the top drive bay on my 690-II advanced case. I currently use it as a backup drive and only plug it in when needed.

I have the SATA port connected to an AHCI controller port so it detects when the drive is plugged in without rebooting windows

dhanson865 · Post by **dhanson865** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:38 pm

flyingsherpa wrote:
dhanson865 wrote: I did this for a coworker recently. Trueimage works fine but it won't just let you copy the boot partition ignoring other data on the drive.
Ghost can copy a boot partition from one drive to another. I've done it several times. Works well, though a few times I had to use a boot disk to run gdisk to re-initialize the MFT. Once you know that trick, it works great.

indeed it will. Ghost can even be run from a 1MB dos boot disk (or a very small flash drive) if you use the command line version. Command line options can do all kinds of neat tricks with Ghost.

Though honestly I haven't used ghost for a couple of years now and when I did I used the corporate version. Not sure how the modern consumer version compares.

gcwebbyuk · Post by **gcwebbyuk** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:06 pm

I have been using Acronis TrueImage for a few years now on servers - especially the universal restore option that allows you to restore an OS to a completely different box with different chipset etc without having to run a repair install. It is a great product. I have since bought 2010 Home version for my home pc. Have used it numerous times for imaging a drive before a reinstall as a backup, and drive backups will mount from within Windows, so you can just drag and drop files from a backup back where you want them. I bought it from Amazon in a sale for Â£20 - well worth it!

bing · Post by **bing** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:31 pm

I vote for 1 or 2 OCZ Vertex/Agility/Solid2 w/ 1.5FW.

I have 2 30GB Vertex in RAID0. I will never go back to HDDs for OS. Although I lose TRIM support by using RAID, I still have GC (with 1.5FW) which is keeping the drive in shape.

http://www.youtube.com/user/MyCEVideo#p/a/0/Lyz1xDe3xO8

Do a fresh install of Win7 to the new SSD. Do not use an image/clone tool. Once the new system is up, then mount the Ghost/Acronis image of the old system and copy over what you need. Or just copy it from the old disk. See OCZ support forum for more info.

ednigma · Post by **ednigma** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:35 pm

ces wrote:"The Intel 40GB drive is pretty competitively priced"

Don't forget that Intel requires that you set your board to ACHI. Older boards can't do that. And I just discovered to my dismay that while an 1156 board with the H57 support chips will do ACHI, the boards that use the H55 support chips can only support IDE.

What do you mean by this? I have a H55 MB running 250G and 640G SATA HDs in AHCI. Do you mean this only applies to SSDs, I would find that hard to believe. It is true that the H57 supports Intel Rapid Storage AKA matrix raid whereas the H55 does not. Both chips support AHCI.

Regards..

ces · Post by **ces** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:13 pm

H55 vs H57 vs Q57 and IDE vs AHCI

From
http://techgage.com/article/intels_32nm ... everyone/4

So with that all in mind, the most popular chipset of these three will surely be the H55, as it's slightly less expensive ($40 vs. $43), and lacks nothing truly important. But... there is one notable difference between the H55 and H57 chipsets that may sway your decision... AHCI. H55 doesn't support it, but H57 does. Why Intel took this route, I have no idea, but it's a bit inconvenient if you ask me.

The situation around this right now is a little murky, and in talking to board vendors, I'm only left even more confused. One company in particular told me that they were looking into supporting AHCI on its H55 boards, but didn't know if it was going to be possible. The person I talked to led me to believe that it could be possible to write a specific driver to enable the support, or to just go with another chipset. But at that point, it would make much more sense to just opt for H57, given the minor price difference.

AHCI isn't the only other benefit H57 brings to the table. It also increases the number of available PCI-E lanes and number of USB ports (12 to 14). I sure most would agree that neither of these two increases will affect much people, so if the lack of AHCI doesn't bother you, then the H55 chipset is going to suit you just fine.

The third chipset is Q57, which is essentially an H57 with Intel's Active Management Technology added in. This feature allows IT environments extra features for efficient handling of a large number of computers, by being able to diagnose a machine remotely, isolate it from all other computers (except the one you are accessing it with) and much more. This is an IT-type feature, and one that would never be used in the home (unless you own a serious mansion, maybe), so for the end-consumer, the choice would between H55 and H57.

I have read this from other sources.

ednigma · Post by **ednigma** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:07 am

Then I would say that the above website, Techgage, is mistaken.

According to Anandtech,

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3732

So where does this leave H57? The only thing it has to offer Clarkdale is a few extra PCI-E lanes, two extra USB ports, and RAID. If you're going to use the IGP, you don't really need the extra PCI-E lanes, which essentially means that you're paying for the option to run RAID on the H57 PCH

My H55 MB has the AHCI option and I am currently running 2 SATA drives on it.

The H55/H57 differentiation is analogous to the previous Intel Southbridges ICHx/ICHxR where both had AHCI but the ICHxR additionally supported Intel Matrix RAID.

Finally from the H55/H57 Product Brief.

Intel RST also provides benefits to Intel H55 users with a single hard drive. Using Advanced Host Controller Interface (AHCI), storage performance is improved through Native Command Queuing (NCQ).

I didn't mean to sound like I was calling you out, but I thought that you had found an incompatibility with SSD drives (which I would not be able to verify since I don't own a SSD) and the H55. And I certainly didn't mean to thread-jack, but I an considering the purchase of a SSD to use with the H55, hence the interest.

Regards..

ces · Post by **ces** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:46 am

ednigma wrote:

My H55 MB has the AHCI option and I am currently running 2 SATA drives on it.

...

I didn't mean to sound like I was calling you out, but I thought that you had found an incompatibility with SSD drives (which I would not be able to verify since I don't own a SSD) and the H55. And I certainly didn't mean to thread-jack, but I an considering the purchase of a SSD to use with the H55, hence the interest.

1. Nothing wrong with vigorous debate. It is a good way to learn things.

2. What motherboard do you have?

3. Seems likely that the H55 doesn't have AHCI but that somre or maybe almost all, board manufacturers have just made sure to add that back in. Would that be consistent with what you are saying?

4. I just bought an H55 Asus board. I just assumed that it didn't have AHCI, but I don't in fact know whether or not it does or doesn't. I did avoid the INTEL SSD because the INTEL website warns to use it only with AHCI.

QuietOC · Post by **QuietOC** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:16 am

ednigma wrote:The H55/H57 differentiation is analogous to the previous Intel Southbridges ICHx/ICHxR where both had AHCI but the ICHxR additionally supported Intel Matrix RAID.

No, before the ICH10 the non-R ICHs didn't have official Intel AHCI support. A few motherboards had unofficial AHCI mode for ICH9. It was the same silicon as the ICH9R after all. H55 and H57 appear to be the same silicon as the $5 ICH10. Last I knew single user performance was slightly better in IDE mode than AHCI mode anyway, but maybe Windows 7 multi-threaded writes has changed that.

Bierfuizl · Post by **Bierfuizl** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:45 am

Back to the original question:

SATA3 will only increase sequential reads/write limit (approx. 250GB/s with SATA2). The main strength of SSDs lies in random read/writes and access times. These won't really improve with SATA3.

So my advice: Go out and buy one now! Use some cheapo TB hard disk for big files, archives and backups.

I got myself a 80GB Intel G2 and it was the best system upgrade in years. Got a cheap 40GB Kingston for wifey. Her XP box (Athlon X4 620 with 740G) now boots in seconds. Benchmarks indicate the expected performance. For my P35/ICH9R/G2 combo running with AHCI, I found that Win7 works much nicer than the old XP. XP was around 30% slower

. So consider moving to an OS that fully supports SSDs.

Tzupy · Post by **Tzupy** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:50 pm

According to an article at Anandtech, the AMD southbridges offer inferior SATA performance when compared with Intel's.
This wasn't much of an issue with hard-disks, but with SSDs it's obvious. Link:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/sh ... i=3755&p=5

Zargon · Post by **Zargon** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:12 am

Tzupy wrote:According to an article at Anandtech, the AMD southbridges offer inferior SATA performance when compared with Intel's.
This wasn't much of an issue with hard-disks, but with SSDs it's obvious. Link:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/sh ... i=3755&p=5

damn. wish I had read that before going AMD with my new build

QuietOC · Post by **QuietOC** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:24 pm

Zargon wrote:
Tzupy wrote:According to an article at Anandtech, the AMD southbridges offer inferior SATA performance when compared with Intel's.
This wasn't much of an issue with hard-disks, but with SSDs it's obvious. Link:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/sh ... i=3755&p=5
damn. wish I had read that before going AMD with my new build

The difference is the AMD southbridges don't handle multiple simultaneous io requests as well, so unless you are running a server it probably won't affect you. Intel chipset in IDE mode act the same way, like my ICH7.