2010 SSD pricing (for drives >= barefoot controller perf)

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dhanson865
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Re: 2010 SSD pricing (for drives >= barefoot controller perf

Post by dhanson865 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:42 am

Looks like Indilinx is coming out with a new barefoot controller revision that noticeably improves write speeds and ups the overprovisioning from 7% to 10%.

Indilinx calls the new controller "Indilinx Martini"

OCZ will be calling their drive "Vertex Plus"

Dunno when the prices will settle, maybe in time for the December price update. If not then they'll show up in the 2011 thread.

Image

Image
The Vertex Plus is now our highest performing drive in our heavy multitasking workload. The SandForce drives fall short because much of this workload deals with incompressible data (JPEGs, .7z archives, etc...).

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Re: 2010 SSD pricing (for drives >= barefoot controller perf

Post by aristide1 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:36 pm

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820233125

Corsair Force 120 $190 after rebate.
Price / GB = $1.5833333333......

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Re: 2010 SSD pricing (for drives >= barefoot controller perf

Post by dhanson865 » Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:24 am

I want to copy this post in from another thread, I'll try to update the pricing info while I'm at it.
There is a huge speed difference between a X25-V and the 160GB X25-M. Ah looking at the specs to make this reply I just noticed that the 120GB version shares speed with the 160GB. I had wondered about that.

Intel specs say Sustained Sequential Write:

up to 35 MB/s (40 GB)
up to 70 MB/s (80 GB)
up to 100 MB/s (120 GB and 160 GB)

Sustained Sequential Read:
up to 170 MB/s (40 GB)
up to 250 MB/s (80 GB, 120 GB, and 160 GB)

and similar stories for

write latency
random IOPS

not to mention a laptop can't put 4 of the 40GB drives in one bay but it can put one 160GB drive there.

I see that as at least 2 good reasons why there is a price premium for the 160GB version (I'm willing to lump all the performance numbers into one bundle because for most of us the write speeds are the more noticeable part of the equation)

Intel X25-V 40GB ~$104
Intel X25-M 80GB ~$179
Intel X25-M 120GB ~$248
Intel X25-M 160GB ~$438

Since the 80GB version is now cheaper than two 40GB and
the 120GB version is even cheaper vs three 40GB or one 80GB plus a 40GB there is much less reason to stick with the 40GB drives now.

Really I don't care if the price comes down on the 160GB now that I know the speed is the same on the 120GB version and it's the cheapest per GB (until people notice).

oh yeah source documents are
http://download.intel.com/design/flash/nand/322208.pdf Nov/09/2010
http://download.intel.com/pressroom/pdf ... tBrief.pdf Dec/15/2009
I'm giving up on just using pricegrabber and now I'm checking google products + pricegrabber

Intel X25-V 40GB ~$99 ~$2.48/GB
Intel X25-M 80GB ~$178 ~$2.23/GB
Intel X25-M 120GB ~$230 ~$1.92/GB
Intel X25-M 160GB ~$375 ~$2.34/GB

Looks like the Gen 2 drives keep dropping in price.

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Re: 2010 SSD pricing (for drives >= barefoot controller perf

Post by dhanson865 » Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:51 am

I thought it'd be nice to do a 120GB price check now since the new Intel drive seems closer to a stable price.

120GB/128GB drives only

Code: Select all

Intel X25-M 120GB      ~$230   ~$1.92/GB
Crucial M225 128GB     ~$229   ~$1.79/GB
Corsair Nova 128GB     ~$230   ~$1.80/GB
Crucial C300 128GB     ~$264   ~$2.06/GB
Samsung  470 128GB     ~$280   ~$2.19/GB
Just a few weeks ago I was happy the Indilinx based drives had dropped in price, now Intel is matching them dollar for dollar.

I know there are 120GB sandforce drives available for ~$220 but I'm just not willing to buy one. Given the price parity I don't see any reason to buy the Indilinx drives anymore either. The only two choices that interest me are

Intel X25-M 120GB ~$230 ~$1.92/GB
Crucial C300 128GB ~$264 ~$2.06/GB

With Intel 120GB being the safer cheaper choice.

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Re: 2010 SSD pricing (for drives >= barefoot controller perf

Post by aristide1 » Sun Nov 21, 2010 6:29 pm

If I understood things correctly NewEgg has the Intel 120GB for $240 + S&H.

Amazon has it for $230 (was $223) shipped. With it comes a $35 rebate coupon.

NOTE! - Rebate ends 11/30, must be mailed by 12/15.

Is there way to monitor one's pagefile?

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Re: 2010 SSD pricing (for drives >= barefoot controller perf

Post by aristide1 » Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:21 pm

Whoa, I wonder how many people have messed up with SSDs because they didn't follow this clear warning:
Enabling AHCI or RAID after installing the operating system is not recommended or supported when a Serial ATA hard drive is the boot drive. Enabling AHCI or RAID after installing the operating system may cause an immediate blue screen with an 0x0000007b error code, followed by a reboot. If you wish to use AHCI or RAID, they should be enabled before installing the operating system.

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Re: 2010 SSD pricing (for drives >= barefoot controller perf

Post by dhanson865 » Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:49 pm

aristide1 wrote:Whoa, I wonder how many people have messed up with SSDs because they didn't follow this clear warning:
This should be in the reliability thread, see viewtopic.php?t=58422 , more specifically you can look for my post around Sun Sep 26, 2010 which discusses the settings changes.

And no it won't mess up your SSD, it just temporarily messes up your Windows operating system. It can be reversed and has no permanent affect on the drive or OS.

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Re: 2010 SSD pricing (for drives >= barefoot controller perf

Post by aristide1 » Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:26 pm

Is this AHCI setting still required if the SSD is not being used for bootup?
Just for highly used files on perhaps a 30 or 40GB drive?

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Re: 2010 SSD pricing (for drives >= barefoot controller perf

Post by frenchie » Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:43 am

aristide1 wrote:Whoa, I wonder how many people have messed up with SSDs because they didn't follow this clear warning:
I guess my intel SSD is screwed up :) I did not had it set to AHCI when I installed it in the comp and when I installed 7 on it. But really, it doesn't matter (my W7 performance index went up a bit, that's it).

This is an interesting read on the topic of AHCI for INTEL drives :
http://www.overclock.net/ssd/786714-not ... -ahci.html

Official MS fix if you change the mode after installing W7 :
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/922976

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Re: 2010 SSD pricing (for drives >= barefoot controller perf

Post by dhanson865 » Mon Nov 22, 2010 2:06 pm

OK, Black Friday is coming up and I've done some serious new work on the reliability thread. I'll cross post a recap here
In another thread I made this list of controllers, let me try adding reliability data to them. The sort order on the list is in preference by speed, reliability, and compatibility not necessarily in that order, just my gut sort of those factors.

Tier 1
Intel Gen 2 (~2% failures, handles XP and Vista better than most, Intel SSD Toolbox v2.x could put this drive at the top of the list even if reliability or speed wasn't a factor.)
Marvell (C300) (~4% failures but a faster drive in most cases, I'd buy on price between this and the Intel Gen 2 drives. If I used Win 7 or had a SATA 6GB/s controller I might favor it slightly)

Tier 2 or Tier 1?
Samsung 470** (unknown, too new to tell but likely less reliable than Intel by a hair and similar in speed, waiting for reviews)
Indilinx Martini (unknown, too new to tell but likely less reliable than Intel and similar in speed, sometimes faster sometimes slower)

Tier 2
Sandforce* (~15% failure rates, higher with some brands, some compatibility issues)
Indilinx Barefoot (~10-50% failure rates depending on the brand, the more reliable brands are worth buying but only if they are noticeably cheaper than the Intel Gen 2 drives)
Toshiba/Jmicron (more than 16MB cache) (~5% failure rates, slower than Intel, slower than C300, Slower than Sandforce, slower than Indilinx Barefoot).

Obsolete
Intel Gen 1 (no TRIM support, slower than Gen 2 drives, discontinued)
old Jmicron (less than 1MB cache (not a typo, the old drives had KB of cache), slower than any SSD above it in the list)
old Samsung (slower than any SSD above it in the list)

* Sandforce drives would be 3rd place on that list if the failure rate was under 10%

** Samsung 470 drives could be in 3rd, 4th, 5th place, I'm waiting for Anandtech to review the drive and for reliability data to show up to be sure where to place this.

Not mentioned above is Indilinx has provided support tools for their drives allowing XP/Vista users to have an alternative to Intel Gen 2 drives. They aren't cheap enough for that to be a big factor right now but It's worth keeping an eye on the Martini revision in case it becomes competitive.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4020/ocz- ... -martini/2 to backup the performance I think the random data write speed is a decent proxy for overall performance. comparisons such as

Code: Select all

         Sandforce 40GB 70.9
              C300 64GB 68.3
Indilinx Martini  128GB 47.6
         Intel G2  40GB 37.7
Indilinx Barefoot 128GB 14.4
It's not a perfect representation of the overall performance order but I think its close and compared to my list shows how much sandforce is being hurt by their reliability/compatibility issues right now.

Marvell C300 is being held back by the vast number of Windows XP/Vista users that aren't migrating to Windows 7. The C300 is a nice controller (or at leas looks nice because they are so generous with the Cache on the board) but doesn't hold up as well in non TRIM situations.
And here is my price list separated by Tier.

Code: Select all

Tier 1
Intel X25-V 40GB       ~$ 90   ~$2.25/GB
Crucial C300 64GB      ~$141   ~$2.20/GB
Intel X25-M 80GB       ~$179   ~$2.23/GB
Intel X25-M 120GB      ~$230   ~$1.92/GB
Crucial C300 128GB     ~$264   ~$2.06/GB
Intel X25-M 160GB      ~$375   ~$2.35/GB
Crucial C300 256GB     ~$526   ~$2.05/GB

Unkown Tier? Maybe Tier 1 Maybe Tier 2.
Samsung 470 64GB       ~$153   ~$2.39/GB
Samsung 470 128GB      ~$293   ~$2.29/GB

Tier 2
Crucial M225 64GB      ~$115   ~$1.80/GB
Corsair Nova 64GB      ~$124   ~$1.94/GB
Corsair Nova 128GB     ~$230   ~$1.79/GB
Crucial M225 128GB     ~$229   ~$1.79/GB
The sandforce drives are too early in their lifecycle and too over hyped for me to bother listing prices for them here. Buyer beware.
Last edited by dhanson865 on Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2010 SSD pricing (for drives >= barefoot controller perf

Post by aristide1 » Mon Nov 22, 2010 3:57 pm

Intel X25-M 120GB ~$230 ~$1.92/GB
Winner.

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Re: 2010 SSD pricing (for drives >= barefoot controller perf

Post by dhanson865 » Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:45 pm

I wasn't thinking about my dividing line for random writes when I made those tiers. The Kingston V/V+/V+100/WD SiliconEdge Blue are all JMicron/Toshiba drives and don't make the cut for the pricing thread so I guess I should have put them in Tier 3 instead of Tier 2. I'll probably move Indilinx Barefoot into Tier 3 with them in the 2011 thread.

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Re: 2010 SSD pricing (for drives >= barefoot controller perf

Post by aristide1 » Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:46 pm

Reading dhanson865 posts is more informative than most web magazines on the subject.

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Re: 2010 SSD pricing (for drives >= barefoot controller perf

Post by Eunos » Wed Nov 24, 2010 6:59 am

A new 'Micro Center' Sandforce drive has crossed into double-digit pricing territory for a 64 GB.

http://www.microcenter.com/single_produ ... id=0351760

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Re: 2010 SSD pricing (for drives >= barefoot controller perf

Post by ilovejedd » Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:21 am

Intel X25-M 120GB currently $200 from Amazon and Newegg while the Intel X25-M 80GB is $170. Cancelled my Onyx 2 120GB order ($196) and getting the Intel 120GB instead. :D

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Re: 2010 SSD pricing (for drives >= barefoot controller perf

Post by aristide1 » Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:10 pm

Don't forget the$35 rebate.

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Re: 2010 SSD pricing (for drives >= barefoot controller perf

Post by ilovejedd » Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:39 pm

Ordered from Amazon since I had some gift certificates. Shipping in 1~3 weeks. Let's hope it arrives before the 12/15 rebate deadline. If not, it's still a good deal at $200. Probably a safer bet than the Onyx 2 I was considering. Newegg has the G.SKILL Phoenix Pro 120GB for a bit lower but I'm not buying G.SKILL again. Mind you, the SSDs are working fine, but they're a teeny bit wider compared to other 2.5" SSDs. It wouldn't fit in the 2.5" hotswap bay I'm using.

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Re: 2010 SSD pricing (for drives >= barefoot controller perf

Post by aristide1 » Fri Nov 26, 2010 4:55 pm

NewEgg has them for $200 on Black Friday as well. Free shipping.

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Re: 2010 SSD pricing (for drives >= barefoot controller perf

Post by ilovejedd » Fri Nov 26, 2010 5:54 pm

aristide1 wrote:NewEgg has them for $200 on Black Friday as well. Free shipping.
I know, but then I'd have to pay tax plus I've got $60+ worth of Amazon gift certificates.

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Re: 2010 SSD pricing (for drives >= barefoot controller perf

Post by dhanson865 » Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:16 am

Again prices in this thread don't consider rebates and do include sales tax (if applicable) and shipping.

If you used those prices to buy the cheapest drives per GB staying at or above the performance of Indilinx Barefoot controller the price history looks like this:

May 2010 ~$2.6/GB Intel Gen2 or C300
June 2010 ~$2.35/GB C300
July 2010 ~$2.2/GB C300
Aug 2010 ~$2.05/GB Indilinx Barefoot
Sep 2010 ~$1.95/GB Indilinx Barefoot
Nov 2010 ~$1.75/GB Indilinx Barefoot

I think I can safely say that the Indilinx products had minimal impact on dropping the price of competing SSDs in 2010. Demand outstripped supply too much for any price war. Maybe a price history of 2009 would show their impact? It looks like Indilinx Barefoot drives came into their own around April 2009, July 2009 saw Intel dropping prices and Indilinx responding. Just from a cursory review and my vague memories I don't think they had a great effect in 2009 either.

If you restricted your choices to Intel Gen 2 vs C300 the 2010 price history looks like this:

May 2010 ~$2.6/GB Intel Gen2 or C300
June 2010 ~$2.35/GB C300
July 2010 ~$2.2/GB C300
Aug 2010 ~$2.1/GB C300
Sep 2010 ~$2.15/GB C300 (official price didn't go up but supply didn't keep up with demand)
Nov 2010 ~$1.95/GB Intel Gen 2 120GB

Intel has commanded a price premium for the reliability/compatibility advantage they've had but they finally dropped prices on Gen2 drives to stifle some of the Sandforce hype.

It'll be interesting to see how 2011 goes. Will it continue the trend of gradual price drops or will there be any game changers that really undercut the status quo?

Note a single company's game changer causes a gradual price drop (as seen by the Intel 120GB being a bigger drop for them but not being cheaper than all comers), it takes two companies game changers within a 2 month window to cause a noticeable gap in the price curve for the market segment.

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Re: 2010 SSD pricing (for drives >= barefoot controller perf

Post by dhanson865 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:34 am

I thought it might be nice to check prices just before Christmas and just before New Years to see if any retailers change prices.

I'm in need of a new drive for my PC at home but I'm just not willing to take a jump on a value drive (<$150) knowing the performance trade-offs in the low capacity models. I'm waiting for the next good price drop or for a new job that pays enough that I'm not pinching pennies.

my price list separated by Tier.

Code: Select all

Tier 1
Intel X25-V 40GB       ~$ 90   ~$2.25/GB
Crucial C300 64GB      ~$130   ~$2.03/GB

Intel X25-M 80GB       ~$170   ~$2.13/GB
Intel X25-M 120GB      ~$230   ~$1.92/GB
Crucial C300 128GB     ~$260   ~$2.03/GB
Intel X25-M 160GB      ~$375   ~$2.35/GB
Crucial C300 256GB     ~$520   ~$2.03/GB

Tier 2
Sandforce drives (not doing pricing for these see note below)


Unkown Tier? Maybe Tier 2?
Samsung 470 64GB       ~$142   ~$2.22/GB
Samsung 470 128GB      ~$274   ~$2.14/GB
Samsung 470 256GB      ~$510   ~$1.99/GB

OCZ Vertex Plus 64GB   ~$136   ~$2.13/GB
OCZ Vertex Plus 128GB  ~$226   ~$1.77/GB


Tier 3

Corsair Nova 64GB      ~$118   ~$1.84/GB
Corsair Nova 128GB     ~$220   ~$1.72/GB

Crucial M225 64GB      discontinued can't find at a cheap price
Crucial M225 128GB     discontinued can't find at a cheap price
Note the Vertex Plus still isn't on the OCZ support/download page so I'm not sure how the wiper.exe or equivalent compatibility is yet. If you are considering buying this drive you should check with OCZ support about XP tools and secure erase process on this drive before you make the jump.

Samsung 470 256GB drives seem to be available in quantity now. Prices still dropping on all 3 capacities.

The sandforce drives are too early in their life cycle and too over hyped for me to bother listing prices for them here. Buyer beware. They'll probably appear in the 2011 price thread eventually but we'll just have to wait and see.

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Re: 2010 SSD pricing (for drives >= barefoot controller perf

Post by dhanson865 » Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:18 pm

my price list separated by Tier.

Code: Select all

Tier 1
Intel X25-V 40GB       ~$ 90   ~$2.25/GB     SSDSA2MP040G2K5
Crucial C300 64GB      ~$130   ~$2.03/GB     CTFDDAC064MAG-1G1

Intel X25-M 80GB       ~$170   ~$2.13/GB     SSDSA2MH080G2K5
Intel X25-M 120GB      ~$225   ~$1.88/GB     SSDSA2MH120G2K5
Crucial C300 128GB     ~$260   ~$2.03/GB     CTFDDAC128MAG-1G1
Intel X25-M 160GB      ~$375   ~$2.35/GB     SSDSA2MH160G2K5
Crucial C300 256GB     ~$520   ~$2.03/GB     CTFDDAC256MAG-1G1

Tier 2
Sandforce drives (not doing pricing for these see note in post above)

Samsung 470 64GB       ~$124   ~$1.94/GB     MZ-5PA064/US
Samsung 470 128GB      ~$252   ~$1.97/GB     MZ-5PA128/US
Samsung 470 256GB      ~$510   ~$1.99/GB     MZ-5PA256/US

OCZ Vertex Plus 64GB   ~$136   ~$2.13/GB     OCZSSD2-1VTXPL64G
OCZ Vertex Plus 128GB  ~$226   ~$1.77/GB     OCZSSD2-1VTXPL128G


Tier 3

Corsair Nova 64GB      ~$126   ~$1.97/GB
Corsair Nova 128GB     ~$226   ~$1.77/GB

Crucial M225 64GB      discontinued can't find at a cheap price
Crucial M225 128GB     discontinued can't find at a cheap price
It's clear that the OCZ Vertex Plus will be the value drive so I'll probably stop tracking the Corsair Nova which is strictly inferior to the Vertex Plus.

Samsung 470 drives have settled into a clear $1.9x/GB pricing strategy. I doubt that price will shift much from here until another new drive shakes things up.

Samsung SSD Magician software is still in Beta at version 1.03 and the manual for that software hasn't been updated since 1.0 around August 2010.

Newegg reviews for the Samsung 470 haven't shown any failures or serious complaints. It's only 40 reviews but other drives have had noticeable failure rates this early in the game so it's looking OK for Samsung if they can get the firmware/SSD magician up to snuff.

Neither Newegg nor Amazon have the OCZ Vertex Plus yet so although I can buy it from several large e-tailers I haven't seen consumer reviews yet.

I'd still take Intel G2 drives over the Samsung 470 and OCZ Vertex Plus for convenience at this point.

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Re: 2010 SSD pricing (for drives >= barefoot controller perf

Post by dhanson865 » Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:27 am

One last check to see how prices ended up around new years 2011.

Code: Select all

Tier 1
Intel X25-V 40GB       ~$ 90   ~$2.25/GB     SSDSA2MP040G2K5
Samsung 470 64GB       ~$130   ~$2.03/GB     MZ-5PA064/US
Crucial C300 64GB      ~$130   ~$2.03/GB     CTFDDAC064MAG-1G1

Intel X25-M 80GB       ~$170   ~$2.13/GB     SSDSA2MH080G2K5

Intel X25-M 120GB      ~$225   ~$1.88/GB     SSDSA2MH120G2K5
Samsung 470 128GB      ~$252   ~$1.97/GB     MZ-5PA128/US
Crucial C300 128GB     ~$260   ~$2.03/GB     CTFDDAC128MAG-1G1

Intel X25-M 160GB      ~$400   ~$2.50/GB     SSDSA2MH160G2K5

Samsung 470 256GB      ~$500   ~$1.95/GB     MZ-5PA256/US
Crucial C300 256GB     ~$530   ~$2.07/GB     CTFDDAC256MAG-1G1

Tier 2
Sandforce drives (not doing pricing for these see note in post above)


OCZ Vertex Plus 64GB   ~$136   ~$2.13/GB     OCZSSD2-1VTXPL64G
OCZ Vertex Plus 128GB  ~$223   ~$1.77/GB     OCZSSD2-1VTXPL128G


Tier 3

Corsair Nova 64GB      ~$120   ~$1.88/GB
Corsair Nova 128GB     ~$226   ~$1.74/GB
If you used the prices as computed in this thread to buy the cheapest drives per GB staying at or above the performance of Indilinx Barefoot controller the price history looks like this:

May 2010 ~$2.6/GB Intel Gen2 or C300
June 2010 ~$2.35/GB C300
July 2010 ~$2.20/GB C300
Aug 2010 ~$2.05/GB Indilinx Barefoot
Sep 2010 ~$1.95/GB Indilinx Barefoot
Nov 2010 ~$1.75/GB Indilinx Barefoot
Dec 2010 ~$1.75/GB Indilinx Martini



If you restricted your choices to Intel Gen 2 vs C300 the 2010 price history looks like this:

May 2010 ~$2.6/GB Intel Gen2 or C300
June 2010 ~$2.35/GB C300
July 2010 ~$2.20/GB C300
Aug 2010 ~$2.10/GB C300
Sep 2010 ~$2.15/GB C300 (official price didn't go up but supply didn't keep up with demand)
Nov 2010 ~$1.95/GB Intel Gen 2 120GB
Dec 2010 ~$1.90/GB Intel Gen 2 120GB

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Re: 2010 SSD pricing (for drives >= barefoot controller perf

Post by HFat » Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:44 am

You were wondering about prices abroad the other day. Crucials especially have been getting cheaper on this side of the pond. $136 for the 64G now. They used to be about 30% more expensive in November. Intels had their price drop in October and are now more expensive per gig (except for the 120G).

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Re: 2010 SSD pricing (for drives >= barefoot controller perf

Post by dhanson865 » Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:52 am

HFat wrote:Intel had their price drop in October and are now more expensive per gig (except for the 120G).
Indeed, you might notice how the 80GB and 160GB Intel are singled out in the price list. They really are overpriced at this point and need to drop to match the price/GB of the 120GB version.

I know if I had any stock of the 80GB or 160GB version I'd be putting them on clearance pricing and quick.

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