DTemp useless with Samsung SATA?

rperezlo · Post by **rperezlo** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:49 am

This is the sequence of temperatures reported by MBM5, all in C:

15 - 17 - 18 - 25 - 27 - 29 - 31 - 33 - 35 - 37 - 39 - 41 - 43

I checked some of them with dtemp and the Samsung disk and they report the same. It seems that the temperature readings in these drives don't have a lot of resolution.

In addition I see a strange behaviour that makes me think about the accuracy of the readings.

- I had 27 C idle but after running defrag for half an hour I had 29 C. The increase seems too low.

- Then I lifted a bit the HD so that now it doesn't touch the 4 tiny stands of the HD cage and the idle temperature has raised to 43 C. Vibration has improved a lot, but this increase seems too high.

JVM · Post by **JVM** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:53 am

rperezlo wrote:This is the sequence of temperatures reported by MBM5, all in C:

15 - 17 - 18 - 25 - 27 - 29 - 31 - 33 - 35 - 37 - 39 - 41 - 43

I checked some of them with dtemp and the Samsung disk and they report the same. It seems that the temperature readings in these drives don't have a lot of resolution.

In addition I see a strange behaviour that makes me think about the accuracy of the readings.

- I had 27 C idle but after running defrag for half an hour I had 29 C. The increase seems too low.

- Then I lifted a bit the HD so that now it doesn't touch the 4 tiny stands of the HD cage and the idle temperature has raised to 43 C. Vibration has improved a lot, but this increase seems too high.

15C to 18C just doesn't seem realistic. What is your room temperature? 14C?

rperezlo · Post by **rperezlo** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 7:08 am

I fully agree. Room temperture was probably close to 19 C and HD temperature can't be below that. In addition, it jumps from 18 C to 25 C without intermediate readings, and the computer was doing nothing, it alwas jumps like that. And it only reads odd values above 25 C.

So, yes, readings in the Samsungs have low resolution and low accuracy. Well, I still can use them as a relative number to know if my last experiment has better or worse thermal behaviour, but obviously you can't count on the absolute value to be exact.

JVM · Post by **JVM** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 7:55 am

rperezlo wrote:I fully agree. Room temperture was probably close to 19 C and HD temperature can't be below that. In addition, it jumps from 18 C to 25 C without intermediate readings, and the computer was doing nothing, it alwas jumps like that. And it only reads odd values above 25 C.

So, yes, readings in the Samsungs have low resolution and low accuracy. Well, I still can use them as a relative number to know if my last experiment has better or worse thermal behaviour, but obviously you can't count on the absolute value to be exact.

This is very surprising. I can't get accurate readings with my SP0812C but that is a SATA drive. You have a PATA drive and I don't know why there should be any problem getting an accurate temperature unless something is amiss with the sensor in the hard drive. Seems I've read somewhere about sensor problems with Samsung hard drives.

I would think DTemp should be able to get an accurate reading. I believe you tried DTemp and got the same results as MBM?

rperezlo · Post by **rperezlo** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 8:13 am

Yes, I tried Dtemp. Again, it's either a sensor problem or a firmware problem and it happens to all the Samsungs, SATA or PATA.

Jan Kivar · Post by **Jan Kivar** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:57 am

I've thought that the jump from 18 to 25 is caused by internal calibration. But You're saying that if the temp drops downwards from 25, it'll go straight to 18, right?

Anyway, You really must have cold inside your house if You can get it below 25 after the drive's heated over it. When, for a brief moment, I had 18°C inside (and -18°C outside), I managed to float the drive in 29°C. Bit warmer inside, and the temp would be 31°C.

The next thing is interesting. While I was watching some movie from the drive, the temp dropped back to 29°C. After I finished watching, the temp rose back to 31°C in five-ten minutes or so. I retried, and managed to do this many times.

Seems that idle drive does not mean lowest temps?

Cheers,

Jan

PCGUY · Post by **PCGUY** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 6:43 am

I feel the pain JVM is going thru to get the temps from sata samsung drives

BTW all these utilities rely on the SMART chip reporting feature and it is either correct or incorrect - According to Alex (author of MBM) just because a drive is SMART it does'nt mean that reporting will be correct!

I am planning to buy 2 samsung SP1614C drives and plan to use the lian li T-4 LCD Thermometer to read HDD and GFX cards temps

Has anybody have experience with SP1614C samsung drives with mobo P4C800-E Deluxe?

rperezlo · Post by **rperezlo** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 6:47 am

For how long did you run the test? I've found my Samsung disk to have thermal inertia. It takes several minutes to increase its temperature and up to one hour to decrease it again, and it has a 12 cm fan blowing directly on it. In any case, what you describe is strange. Idle temperature should be lower than doing any other thing.

And yes the temperatures are wrong. It starts at 15 C (it's warmer than 15 C inside home) and it goes down to 18 C after some time after heating up to the thirties.

Schroinx · Post by **Schroinx** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 7:03 am

PCGUY wrote:Has anybody have experience with SP1614C samsung drives with mobo P4C800-E Deluxe?

Well, the chipset on the asus is the same as on mine. The raid chip on the asus, however is a VIA6410 wheras the abit uses the silicon image chip. Also it appears that the abit southbridge is a ICH5 wheras yours is a ICH5R. I'm not quite sure about the difference between the two chips. And temp monitoring on my two SP1614C does not work proberly. Both reports in the 14-16C range. I haven't tried running the drives on the Silicon Image SATA channels yet.

Anyone who know what SMART chip is used? I bet that there is only a limited number of SMART chips, and that each HD manufacturer does not make them themselves.

One other thing could be the drives firmware. Mine have version 25 and 27, reported in Speedfan.

Jan Kivar · Post by **Jan Kivar** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 7:23 am

rperezlo wrote:For how long did you run the test? I've found my Samsung disk to have thermal inertia. It takes several minutes to increase its temperature and up to one hour to decrease it again, and it has a 12 cm fan blowing directly on it. In any case, what you describe is strange. Idle temperature should be lower than doing any other thing.

And yes the temperatures are wrong. It starts at 15 C (it's warmer than 15 C inside home) and it goes down to 18 C after some time after heating up to the thirties.

Hmm... IIRC, the temp dropped down to 29°C within 15 mins after I started watching. I have no fan pointed to the drive, though I think that the drive gets it's share of airflow from the 120 mm Enermax mounted above the cards/PCI/ISA slots.

My drive starts from 15°C too, then it rises to 17 -> 18 -> 25 -> 27 ->29 ->31 -> 33. Depending on ambient, it hovers at 31°C or 33°C. Running defrag does nothing (maybe because it lasts only 15 mins?). Nor does the temp dip down to 18°C after it's heated up.

I'm not sure whether the idle state should be the coolest. IBM/Hitachi invented "the meow" to cool the heads and actuators. But the resolution of the SMART temp meter in Samsungs is too inaccurate to say anything...

Cheers,

Jan

JVM · Post by **JVM** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:57 pm

PCGUY wrote:I feel the pain JVM is going thru to get the temps from sata samsung drives

BTW all these utilities rely on the SMART chip reporting feature and it is either correct or incorrect - According to Alex (author of MBM) just because a drive is SMART it does'nt mean that reporting will be correct!

I am planning to buy 2 samsung SP1614C drives and plan to use the lian li T-4 LCD Thermometer to read HDD and GFX cards temps

Has anybody have experience with SP1614C samsung drives with mobo P4C800-E Deluxe?

The Lian-Li T-4 LCD Thermometer looks like a nice way to solve the problem, but I don't have a spare 5.25" bay - just adds to my woes.

PCGUY · Post by **PCGUY** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 4:20 pm

JVM,

I think this is 3.5' bay fixture. I just ordered one and the cheapest one can get is here http://www.coolerguys.com/ProductDetail ... ductID=291

I am planning to use one sensor for the HDD (SAMSUNG two SP1614C in RAID 0) and one for the GFX (ATI 9800 PRO AIW).

I will use MBM to read off other temps!

I like KISS (Keep it simple stupid).

Good Luck

JVM · Post by **JVM** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 4:42 pm

PCGUY wrote:JVM,

I think this is 3.5' bay fixture. I just ordered one and the cheapest one can get is here http://www.coolerguys.com/ProductDetail ... ductID=291

I am planning to use one sensor for the HDD (SAMSUNG two SP1614C in RAID 0) and one for the GFX (ATI 9800 PRO AIW).

I will use MBM to read off other temps!

I like KISS (Keep it simple stupid).

Good Luck

PCGUY, it is for 5.25" bays:

"The T-4 is essentially just a plain-anodised aluminium 5.25 inch drive bay cover, like the ones that come with the Lian Li cases that have this finish, but with a couple of holes cut in it and electronic thermometer modules installed. The T-4 will fit in practically any PC case with a spare 5.25 inch bay, though; it's got a couple of threaded mounting holes in the standard locations, and comes with a couple of screws. It's very easy to install."

I found the above on a different website than the one you posted but shouldn't make a difference. Most all those fan controllers and other devices with LCD displays are for 5.25" bays. But do let me know if yours comes for a 3.5" bay.

JVM, just dreaming of someday seeing his hard drive temperature...

PCGUY · Post by **PCGUY** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 4:56 pm

JVM,

You are right

I just checked and it is 5.25 bay - I did not care because I have lots of spare bays

Did you try Compunurse advance? This comes with same rectangular display but with dual temp readouts! But you will have to get handy to put this in 3.5' bay? See here http://www.extensiontech.net/reviews/misc/compunurse/

JVM · Post by **JVM** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 7:17 am

PCGUY wrote:JVM,

You are right

I just checked and it is 5.25 bay - I did not care because I have lots of spare bays

Did you try Compunurse advance? This comes with same rectangular display but with dual temp readouts! But you will have to get handy to put this in 3.5' bay? See here http://www.extensiontech.net/reviews/misc/compunurse/

With nurses I am handy, with this thing, eh

Notice how they didn't show it in a 3.5" bay.

Schroinx · Post by **Schroinx** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:00 am

A strange thing have happened. I took apart my case to do some modding for a fan. Since I cannot be without the computer I put the mobo tray and the components on the floor. And now my temps is in the 27-35 range for both discs. As earlier reports suggest I can now see that the temp scale is with 2C intervals. Before I had two 120mm papst fans blowing direct on the drives, maybe keeping the temps below the level of 25 as mentioned earlier.

Devilsown · Post by **Devilsown** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 2:24 am

Does anyone know if the temperature measured by Dtemp is comparable to the temperature you can feel by touching it? Or is there a big difference?

Because Dtemp (and other tools) measure that my Maxtor Diamond Max Plus8 (liquid bearing) is 60 degrees! While i can easily touch it, and it's barely warm.

Jan Kivar · Post by **Jan Kivar** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 3:18 am

Schroinx wrote:A strange thing have happened. I took apart my case to do some modding for a fan. Since I cannot be without the computer I put the mobo tray and the components on the floor. And now my temps is in the 27-35 range for both discs. As earlier reports suggest I can now see that the temp scale is with 2C intervals. Before I had two 120mm papst fans blowing direct on the drives, maybe keeping the temps below the level of 25 as mentioned earlier.

You didn't think that it would make any difference?

Most drives have the sensor on the PCB visible, so that direct airflow can make huge variations.

And this is with VIA SATA Raid chip, yes? Or did You change to SiI? I'm amazed to hear that You are able to get SMART out of an external controller.
[I'm also amazed that I didn't spot it out in the first place

]

Maybe there is still hope for Samsung SATA drives & SMART...

Cheers,

Jan