Athlon64 Heatsink

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Shad0
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Athlon64 Heatsink

Post by Shad0 » Tue May 04, 2004 4:58 am

I just got my hands on a duron 700 with biostar motherboard (with holes for HS), and on the "recommended HSF" I didn't find the Thermalright SP97, although it has been reviewed.
I'm planning to make this a server runing 24/7 juste beside my bed, so I really need something silent, and I wonder wich is better between the SP97 and the SLK 947U...
Any comment welcome :)
(I'll probably put it in an Antec Overture case in case you're wondering)
Last edited by Shad0 on Wed May 26, 2004 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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luminous
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Post by luminous » Wed May 05, 2004 9:43 am

The SP97 is the newer version. It comes with heatpipes that are meant to be beneficial.

I looked around for some reviews to see which was best. The only direct comparison that I found used a CPU that was not worked hard enough to give out enough heat to really use the heatpipes.

As far as I can tell, the SP97 is better, but only marginally. You should be happy with either, so just check prices and make sure that both will fit your mobo.
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Post by Trip » Wed May 05, 2004 12:30 pm

there's also the 948U. "Bolt thru mounting method ensure full security for LAN party" It is probably the most expensive, best of the three, and I'm curious if the bolt thru mounting method is significantly better.

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Post by hero » Wed May 05, 2004 3:59 pm

Trip wrote:there's also the 948U. "Bolt thru mounting method ensure full security for LAN party" It is probably the most expensive, best of the three, and I'm curious if the bolt thru mounting method is significantly better.
That's just the A64/P4 version of the 947U. They all bolt through the motherboard. Personally, that's the only kind of mounting I ever consider.

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Post by Edward Ng » Wed May 05, 2004 8:49 pm

Having directly utilized the following Thermalright models:
SLK-900A
SP-94
SLK-947U
SP-97

I just HAVE to say the following...

Okay, that's it, time to clarify this mess...

SP-97 is superior to both, SLK-947U and SLK-948U; here's why:

First off, SLK-947U and SLK-948U are virtually identical except for one thing. Both models are designed to fit Socket478 (Pentium 4) via your choice of either through-board bolt mounting, or using clips that fit the special lock-frame on Pentium 4 boards. Then the difference between 947 and 948 lies in its AMD compatibility; 947U can bolt-mount through a Socket A board equipped with the four holes, while the 948U bolt-mounts through Socket754 (Athlon 64) boards. The way this works is that the sink has a metal clip running through the middle of it; at the ends of this clip are two lips that hang down and underneath a black metal frame that surrounds the lower portion of the sink. This black metal frame is the portion that has the holes for bolt-mounting. When you mount the sink, you screw down the black frame, which in turn pulls down on the metal clip, thus pressing the sink down to the CPU. Herein lies the problem with the design of SLK-947U/948U...

The SP-97, like the SP-94, directly bolt-mounts through the board. In other words, the heatsink itself has four holes that the spring-loaded bolts lead through to thread into the lower nuts which hold the backplate on. When an SP-94/97 is mounted, it is rock solid, with no twist or slide slack (can't shift the sink up/down or left/right or twist it). This is because the bolts go straight through the sink, with extremely minimal tolerances (quality engineering) to the backplate.

On the other hand, SLK-947U/8U has severe twist slack. The inward pressure to the chip is about the same as the SP-97/94 (they use the same backplate, the same nuts, the same washers, the same bolts with the same springs), but because the frame is the only part that's hard-bolted, then the clip is actually separate from the black frame, and the clip is also floating around inside the sink, there a tons of slack for twisting and sliding the sink around, even when fully installed. Normally one would think that's okay, since it's pressing down on the CPU all the same as SP-97.

Au contraire (sic)...

I have discovered a serious flaw in the SLK-947U, and have in fact already shipped mine back to Newegg for refund minus 15% restocking fee, and here's why:

Due to the twist slack, if you find yourself swapping fans several times (as I did, experimenting...), the slack allows the sink to keep shifting around during the fan swaps. What happens during all this twisting, turning, slipping and sliding, is that the TIM between the HS and the CPU gets pressed out!!! And I'm not talking about some of it. I'm talking about very nearly all of it. How did I know?...

After testing a very high o/c with the SLK-947U and AcoustiFan AF92CT and finding the the CPU nearing 68C, I decided to swap in a stronger fan, so I busted out my 92mm red LED fan by Galaxy. After swapping in the much faster fan, I found the temp suddenly climbing to 76C; I was dunbfounded! So, I decided to break out the heavy armor: Vantec 92mm Tornado! I mounted that, and then went to turn it on, but the damn thing shut down even before Windows started! Suddenly I was confused, so I turned it on and quickly jumped into the BIOS health monitor to check; it was going over 90C!!!!!!!!!! The damn thing was deafeningly loud AND insanely hot!!! That was the last straw; I quickly shut it down and cracked 'er open...

What I found dismayed me quite a bit. I lifted away the sink and noticed two things:

A) the heatsink and CPU were virtually devoid of any TIM. I could clearly see the color of the sink and the color of the CPU die, and

B) the pattern of the mark where the TIM was eliminated appeared in a wider patch than the die itself, and towards the edges appeared stepped, as if not as much action had occurred there.

Looking at those marks, I knew right away what had happened. As I was swapping fans in the very tight area (PSU is like, 1/4" away from the 92mm fans once mounted to the sink), the sink was subject to lateral forces from all directions, causing it (the copper portion of the sink assembly) to slide and twist all about in its mounts, within the parameters inside the black frame. All the twisting and sliding, combined with the amount of inward force from the spring-bolt loading, caused the TIM to completely squeeze out, to the point where there was virtually none, which is definitely not enough!

SP-97's direct bolt mounting leaves no slack. None at all. ZERO. Just like SP-94...

I immediately set up RMA and sent the sink out, and ordered an SP-97 the same night. My SP-97 came in two nights ago and I've been a happy camper since:

SP-97 with Panaflow M1B @ 12volts

ABIT AN7

Mobile Athlon XP Barton 2400+ (1800MHz, stock) @ 2volts...
12*205.5=2466MHz
idle temp 41C
load temp (after 4 hours of Prime95 torture) 54C

That's all I've got to say about that.

-Ed

PS BTW The SP-9x series of sinks has heatpipes, while the SLK-9xxx series do not. Performance of the SP sinks, compared to the SLK sinks, would be better anyway, all else considered.

PPS I plan to send word to Thermalright about this flaw. It is very dangerous, and needs to be dealt with ASAP. SLK-900A did not exhibit this flaw, and neither do SP-94 or SP-97, but SLK-947U does, and I wouldn't be surprised one bit if SLK-948U does as well!

Consider yourself warned...
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Shad0
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Post by Shad0 » Thu May 06, 2004 1:01 am

Hmm thanks for the advice
I think I'll go for the SP97 then, maybe it's a bit too much for a duron 700 which isn't going to be overclocked but with a Papst 8412N/2GLE it should keep very cool 'n quiet. and won't move. Do you guys recommend me a fanmate too, so I can precisely adjust noise to my needs ?
It'll go in an overture case, and I'll probably mod the psu too
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ljmeijer
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Post by ljmeijer » Thu May 06, 2004 1:21 am

I'd try to get a mainboard that supports setting the fan speed trough software. That way you can use a tool like speedfan (Don't know of any linux variant, they'll probably be there. I'm assuming linux here since you're running a server), to contorl the fanspeed for you based on the load of the system.

My p4p800deluxe can control the CPU fan trough software, but not the casefan :-(..

And if you're sleeping next to it, yes you will need to have to do something about your PSU. I have the overture case, and altough I'm pretty happy with it, the PSU is just very loud (for my taste).. Also the exhaust fan, which has a temperature sensor attached is way too loud. Even when having the temp sensor in a cold place (outside of the case), the fan makes far too much noise to be acceptable...

Shad0
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Post by Shad0 » Thu May 06, 2004 2:21 am

I was already planning a fan swap for the psu...
so you're saying it's necessary for the fan case too ?
Ok, I'll try and tell you how it is for me (the compe will be just in front of my bed at head size).
I don't think I'll get another motherboard though, it's going to be a linux server supposed to be cheap enough, I can invest on things like HSF but for the motherboard I'd rather not :wink:
SLK3700 BQE
Athlon64 3200+ with 7000A Al-Cu
Radeon 9800 Pro HIS (w vga silencer)
Hdd Samsung 160GB SATA
(Silencing in progress)

Shad0
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Post by Shad0 » Tue May 25, 2004 8:09 am

I just saw on Thermalright's site that the SLK948U fits on Athlon64 too, that might be what's changed sinced the 947 (because of the "neo" backplate ?).
Since I'm gonna buy my main comp with an athlon64 in about a month, has anyone any feedback on this ?
And since that Atlhon64 3200+ is quite power hungry, would an SP97 fit too ?
'til today I had planned for a Zalmann 7000A Al/cu, but since I *might* be experimenting ducting, I wonder if the SP97 wouldn't be better (that and choosing my fan from the beginning).
Any comment greatly appreciated :)
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Radeon 9800 Pro HIS (w vga silencer)
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Post by Edward Ng » Tue May 25, 2004 12:15 pm

EDIT: Delete; my bad.

I will be receiving a Cooler Master HyperX from them directly (Cooler Master, Taiwan) very soon for review; if you can wait, you will find out from me how it compares to SP-94, which is the P4 version of SP-97. Hyper 6 will work on both, P4 and K8 platforms.

-Ed
Last edited by Edward Ng on Mon Sep 20, 2004 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Shad0
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Post by Shad0 » Tue May 25, 2004 11:42 pm

Ok, anyway I've still got a month or so before I buy all my stuff (even though I might buy the case (BQE) earlier to take it apart a bit and see what mod I can do before all's installed.
So I'll wait for your review, and stick (for the moment) to the Zalmann 7000 in my shopping list ;)

EDIT : I changed the topic since it isn't about cooling my duron anymore, now it's about cooling an athlon64 with ducting possibilities

EDIT 2 : I've read a few review about the Hyper 6 and it seems really promising, the only problem being the stock fan, apparently very noisy...could easily be replaced, probly :wink:
In a BQE with a push 80mm papst...and with bak fan pulling air outside the case... not even a need for a duct, is there ?
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spog
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Post by spog » Mon May 31, 2004 7:52 am

The SLK947U mounts exactly the same as a SP-97 for AMD cpu's. I have no idea what Edward is referring to since the clips are not used for amd or intel systems that have the 4 holes in the Mobo. The thermalright website does not show any clips in the installation detail drawings. I just installed a SLK947U and no clips of any kind were used, and the heatsink had very little room to twist or move (need to twist the heatsink back and forth to spread the AS ceramique). Am I missing something here?

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Post by Edward Ng » Mon May 31, 2004 8:33 am

The mounting plate and the frame around the sink do not move, that is correct, but the heatsink itself, which is held down by a combination of the frame and the clip together (there is a clip running through the center of the SLK-947U; the black hold-down frame pulls this clip down, which in turn forces the sink down on the chip) is quite free to twist and turn. Yes, it is tight against the chip, but it twists and turns quite freely. This is, as I said before, because the heatsink is not directly bolted to the board, it is the black metal frame that is bolted to the board. With SP-97, it is the sink itself that is bolted to the board, and it does not allow any slack or movement at all.

When you install your heatsink, you do not want to allow more than one or two twists to ensure pressing out air bubbles. With the SLK-947U, switching fans results in additional twists and turns, and with each and every twist of the sink, more and more TIM is pressed out. This does not occur on SP-97, because the sink does not shift, slide or twist when changing fans.

Either way, SP-97 is the superior heatsink, and will outperform SLK-947U, even on equal terms, not counting the issue of pressing out TIM, which can only occur on SLK-947U.

-Ed
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Post by RLiu818 » Mon May 31, 2004 12:07 pm

Edward Ng wrote:The mounting plate and the frame around the sink do not move, that is correct, but the heatsink itself, which is held down by a combination of the frame and the clip together (there is a clip running through the center of the SLK-947U; the black hold-down frame pulls this clip down, which in turn forces the sink down on the chip) is quite free to twist and turn. Yes, it is tight against the chip, but it twists and turns quite freely. This is, as I said before, because the heatsink is not directly bolted to the board, it is the black metal frame that is bolted to the board. With SP-97, it is the sink itself that is bolted to the board, and it does not allow any slack or movement at all.

When you install your heatsink, you do not want to allow more than one or two twists to ensure pressing out air bubbles. With the SLK-947U, switching fans results in additional twists and turns, and with each and every twist of the sink, more and more TIM is pressed out. This does not occur on SP-97, because the sink does not shift, slide or twist when changing fans.

Either way, SP-97 is the superior heatsink, and will outperform SLK-947U, even on equal terms, not counting the issue of pressing out TIM, which can only occur on SLK-947U.

-Ed
interesting.. u have any ideas when the SP will come out for A64's?

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Post by Edward Ng » Mon May 31, 2004 12:27 pm

Unfortunately, this is something I do not (yet) know. I will try to contact them and see if they have a release date on that item. The boxes for my SP-94 have been printed with a checklist on the side for a very long time, and the box for my SP-97 also had a checklist. The SP-97's box looks like this:

[ ] SP-94
[o] SP-97
[ ] SP-98

the brackets being 1/2" boxes, and the O being an orange 1/4" circular sticker they attached to mark the enclosed model. Of the two SP-94 boxes, the older box, belonging to the SP94 in Sigma One, is marked like this:

[o] SP-94
[ ] SP-98

the o being a green 3/8" circular sticker, and the newer SP-94 box, belonging to my SP-94 in Alpha Three, has these markings on the side:

[o] SP-94
[ ] SP-97
[ ] SP-98

the o, again, being a green 3/8" circular sticker. My guess is that that SP-98 has been in development for quite some time, and that they mark SP-94 with green sticker and SP-97 with orange sticker, just to differentiate markings even more.

I saw some specs for Socket-939 Athlon FX and noticed a different height to the socket/chip than for Socket-754 Athlon 64 and Socket-940 Athlon FX (which are the same height as each other); my guess is that this may be the reason for the delay of SP-98! Thermalright is probably trying to modify the design of SP-98 so that it can fit both, S754/S940, and also S939; that way, it will be able to cover all K8 platforms, and reduce the headache of differentiating different sink models for different sockets.

-Ed
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Post by tay » Wed Jun 16, 2004 3:47 pm

In your opinion would an application of RTV silicone fix the movement problem while still leaving the HS apparatus free to be uninstalled (ie not permanent)?

The 947U is 20 bux at svc while the 900A is 33. Thats my motivation. TIA!
Phenom II 555 (3 cores unlocked) 1.275v - 4GB - Xigmatek 1293 Cooler - WD 64 GB SSD -CM Mystique - Antec NeoHE 550 - Saphire 6870
e6300 - 2 GB DDR - P180 - Scythe Mine - Samsung 400 GB - 3 120mm fans
imac 7,1 C2D 2.0, 3 GB 250GB.
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Post by Edward Ng » Wed Jun 16, 2004 6:06 pm

This is something I honestly don't know; at only $20, it's worth a shot to try it (the SLK-947U). If you do not plan to mess around or tinker with it too much, that problem may not be such an issue for you.

I don't know about using things like RTV silicone; I say just try it as it is to see if it will be okay. It's only a $20 heatsink; not really worth that much craziness. That problem should only occur for those who tinker a lot with the fan and end up moving the sink around from doing fan swaps.

-Ed
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Post by DyJohnnY » Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:51 pm

i know this thread is slightly out of date but i've found some internet stores that apparently sell SLK947U's with some sort of revision i can't quite understand, but they are selling SLK947U (mark) I II's and III's...could that mark mean that TR has changed the SLK?
here is the link

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