Major problem fitting Scythe Ninja 1000 on ASUS A8N-E

[Flexo]

Hi Guys.

I've come to a standstill while building my new PC. I've attached my Athlon 3700+ San Diego CPU to the Asus A8N-E 939 Mobo, set up the Nexus 120 fan on the Scythe Ninja NCU-1000 HS and carried out the instructions for the mounting of the HS. But when I came to attach the mounting clips to the retention bracket they wouldn't reach!

Has anyone else managed to install this heatpipe on the same Mobo?

I've tried to use the supplied back plate instead of the Mobo backplate but it won't fit, plus I don't think it would of made a difference. The problem seems to be either the length of the mounting clips, about 1cm too short, or the 'arms' on the corners of the retention bracket should be higher. I've even tried to bend the metal that connents the clips to the HS but to no avail.

I have been forceful with the clips but they just won't reach. I wonder if my HS has come with the wrong parts?

I chose this HS over the XP 120 because of apparent easy installation! All the threads here don't seem to mention this problem. Have I missed something? Could anyone help me out?

Thanks

[BenW]

I don't know what the board and heatsink are like for mounting but read the instructions! Chances are it will tell you to use the back plate for a certain cpu socket type and show you some instructions for that socket.

Mounting holes are different for different socket motherboard.

Oh and installing my xp-120 took about 30 seconds on a P4

[Garry]

I have the Scythe SCNJ-1000 mounted on the A8N-E. I encountered no problem in using the Scythe back plate on the mobo, so I suggest you review that step. I did, however, find that considerable pressure was required to get the HS mounting clips attached to the retention brackets.

Here's a quote from the SPCR review of the HS: "Although I have not tried using the aforementioned large heatsinks on a large number of motherboards, my impression is that the Ninja wins hands down for ease and safety of installation on both 478 and 775 sockets. There's no reason to think it would not be the same for K8."

The A8N-E with its 939 socket is K8, and I have reason to think the ease and safety of installation may not be as significant as that experienced on the 478 and 775 sockets. Anyone else out there that can share his or her experience?

[Flexo]

I have the Scythe SCNJ-1000 mounted on the A8N-E. I encountered no problem in using the Scythe back plate on the mobo, so I suggest you review that step

Garry, on the back of my mobo theres some soldered blobs on the circuits. This prevents one of the 4 corners of the bracket (one closest to the port sockets) from being bolted down close to the mobo, and therefore unstable. Did you not have this problem?

Plus did you try using the Asus mobo bracket first and have the same problem as me?

I can't understand why using the Scythe back plate would make a difference because the retention bracket would still have to be mounted close to the mobo, thus bringing back the problem of not reaching the clips.

I realise a lot of force must be applied when clipping the HS, but I seriously can't manage to get close enough.

I can hook 2 clips from one side of the HS but it leaves the other 2 up in the air with the corner of the Heat sinks base pressed down into my CPU! This is no way to carefully mount a heat pipe on an expensive CPU!

Thanks for your reply

[kadiir]

I was able to get it on after about a 1/2 hour, lots of cussing, widening the angle of the bracket on one side, and, ultimately, getting it on and bending the corner of the bottom fin

Oh, yeah - A8N-E using Asus bracket (the Scythe instructions said to use the mobo's bracket if one if provided, so I did).

kad

ps - this HS is awesome I think - my idle (3800+ Venice) is 41 C or so (based bios reading) w/ an ambient of ~26 C. It's actually ~2 degrees lower than the system temp listed in the BIOS (I don't know where that's measured, though). Now, if I could just figure out why my NB (w/ NB47J) is so hot (60C idle according to a temp probe I had on the side of the 47)....

[Garry]

Garry, on the back of my mobo there’s some soldered blobs on the circuits. This prevents one of the 4 corners of the bracket (one closest to the port sockets) from being bolted down close to the mobo, and therefore unstable. Did you not have this problem?

I encountered no solder blobs significant enough to interfere with installing the back-plate supplied by Scythe for a socket 939 mobo.

Plus did you try using the Asus mobo bracket first and have the same problem as me?

I did try using the original Asus mobo back-plate (not bracket), but ran into some kind of incompatibility problem with the Scythe retention bracket for 939 mobo's. I'm not sure on the specifics of the incompatibility problem at this point in time.

Kadir said

Oh, yeah - A8N-E using Asus bracket (the Scythe instructions said to use the mobo's bracket if one if provided, so I did).

My reading of the Scythe instructions recommends using the original back-plate if compatible with the Scythe supplied retention bracket.

Bottom line is (I think): The A8N-E requires use of both the Scythe back-plate and retention bracket.

I do agree that the force needed to attach the HS clips to the bracket is considerable. I too found myself concerned about damage to my CPU although I'm now up and running cool with no evident problems.

[Oliver]

I am thinking about getting this heatsink or some of the other Scythe heatsinks, but I cannot for the life of me understand how to mount them.
I downloaded the instructions, and what confuses me is the use of the 4 point 'x' shaped backplate. But on socket 939 motherboards, is not there usually a bracket already firmly affixed to the back of the motherboard?
On the A8n-E is the factory backplate already glued solid to the back? Like some of the other A8n motherboards?
Are you supposed to somehow remove that, or just put the new backplate over top that?

It looks like the instructions for socket 939 only want 2 screws to come through and afix the new front plate. Did I read that right? Is this correct? Do those 2 screw holes align with the 2 screw holes that hold on the stock factory frontplate? Can you just unsrew the factory frontplate and screw on the Scythe frontplate without messing with a new backplate?
I just don't get it as some of these backplates are really glued on???????

If so, then why cannot you just use the backplate and the 2 holes in it that are already there? Or do you have to line up the backplate with some other holes in the motherboard? (I forget were there 4 other holes there that the factory backplate did not use?)

[alleycat]

I just built an A64 system two days ago using a Scythe Ninja heatsink. I used an Asus A8V motherboard, so maybe my experiences will be relevant to other Asus s939 boards.

I removed the Asus retention bracket, but not the back plate. You must use the two screws that come with the Ninja to attach the Ninja's retention bracket. If you look carefully at the instructions that come with the Ninja, you will see which screws to use. The holes in the Ninja's retention bracket are in exactly the same place as the Asus retention bracket. When I placed the HS onto the CPU, it did seem that the clips were a long way from the retention bracket, so for a moment I did get worried.

Anyway, I just tilted the Ninja over a bit so that I could get one of the clips loosely hooked into the bracket. Then, holding the Ninja near the base, I tilted it over towards the diagonally opposite corner (thus gaining leverage) and pushed down on that clip as well. This required a bit of force, which may concern those who aren't familiar with mounting heatsinks like these. With two diagonally opposite corners in place, it was fairly easy to push the other two clips down, although they also required firm pressure to get them properly clipped onto the retention bracket.

[Flexo]

Thanks for all your replys guys!

After reading Kadiir's post, I changed my approach to the mounting. First I took off the Nexus fan, and realised that some of the mounting clips were nearer to the bracket holes than others. So I hooked one of these first (clipping the most difficult of the clips) and then the clip on the opposite corner. This method was much easier then attaching 2 clips on the same side of the HS. Then it was just a matter of clipping the other 2 corners, without having 2 worry about the HS moving around creating possible air bubbles in the Ceramique.

Originally I was worried about the force required to mount this HS, which is why I had little success early on. So I just decided to go for it, even if the Mobo snapped! So to any newbies to CPU HS like myself, don't be put off by the forced required when pushing down on the CPU.

I did try using the original Asus mobo back-plate (not bracket), but ran into some kind of incompatibility problem with the Scythe retention bracket for 939 mobo's. I'm not sure on the specifics of the incompatibility problem at this point in time.

From Garry

I stuck with the Asus back-plate, and found the screws your instructed to use by Scythe do fit it along with the Scythe retention bracket, so I used this setup when mounting. I don't know why your Mobo should fit the Scythe back-plate and mine doesn't. Those solder blobs simply making it impossible to tighten the back-plate.

It looks like the instructions for socket 939 only want 2 screws to come through and afix the new front plate. Did I read that right? Is this correct? Do those 2 screw holes align with the 2 screw holes that hold on the stock factory frontplate? Can you just unsrew the factory frontplate and screw on the Scythe frontplate without messing with a new backplate?
I just don't get it as some of these backplates are really glued on???????

From Oliver

Both the screw holes on the Scythe back-plate align and fit the mobo and the supplied Scythe black plastic retention bracket to clip the HS. But in my case (and I may be in the minority) the solder blobs under the Mobo interfer with one of those 'X' corners on the Scythe back plate, leaving it all wobbly. The Asus Backplate is not glued on, its screwed on from the front with long screws that pass through the original stock retention bracket meant for the Stock HSF that comes with Athlon CPUs.

If so, then why cannot you just use the backplate and the 2 holes in it that are already there? Or do you have to line up the backplate with some other holes in the motherboard? (I forget were there 4 other holes there that the factory backplate did not use?)

From Oliver

Yes,you can in my case. Plus those 4 smaller holes on the Scythe back-plate are meant for different CPUs ( I think socket 478). You only have to worry about the 2 larger screw holes for 939 sockets.

Thanks for all the advice. I off to finish my PC

PC Specs

CASE: Acoustic case C6607b with 2 Nexus 120mm fans (front +back)
CPU: Athlon 64 3700+ san diego CPU
CPU Heatsink: Scythe SCNJ-1000 Ninja + Nexus 120mm fan
MOBO: Asus A8N-E Nforce4 Ultra (939) + Zalman ZM-NB47J NB heatsink
VGA: Sapphire X800xl PCI-E ultimate
PSU: Seasonic S-12 430w
RAM: OCZ 1GB (2 x 512MB) DDR PC3200 EL Platinum REV 2
HARD DRIVE: Samsung SP120 200GB (SP2004C) SATA
OPTICAL DRIVE: Pioneer DVR-A09XL DVD/RW
FAN CONTROLLER: mCubed T Balancer XL Analogue fan controller + 2 extra analog sensors

[Garry]

For those of you reading this thread and considering the purchase of a Scythe Ninjya for a 939 board, I consider allycat's opposite corners first mounting tip a much better method than the one side first and then the other method I used. Sure wish I had thought of that at the time. There's no way for me to know for certain, but I suspect allycat's "firm pressure" involved less force than my "considerable pressure". I hope my experience does not discourage others from using the Ninjya since I consider it a fine HS and the ideal HS for the P180 case.

[Oliver]

wow all this talk about firm or considerable pressure.... has me scared to get this thing after my failure to succesfully mount the stock amd cooler -- I permanently bent (not broke) the board with the stock cooloer. (more on that below).

Would it not help to prevent board bending if you mounted this thing outside the case, with one hand on the back plate underneath the board, and the other applying this pressure.

Is the pressure more than is needed to mount the stock a64 amd heatsink?

If you lifted the board out, and eyed the edge of the board, do you think the leverage from its own mounting is bending the board or not?

You think a SOnic Tower is easier to mount, with less chance of permanentlly bending the board?



By the way, I bent (permanently warped) a board trying to get the stock heatsink on, after the board was mounted on the standoffs inside the case. Followed the directions and the board made all these crackling noises. I think some of the noised came from the standoff screws scraping inside their holes, but after removing the board later, and seeing the permanent warp (and the warp was centered between the standoffs) I think some of that sound was from the layers of the board being bent realative to the fiberglass stuff holding them together.

I must be an idiot, but I think the people who write the directions do not do a good job.

Later I realized there is a way to just perfectly coax the stock retention things into snapping place, but still a slight bending force must be applied, and the line between bending the board permanently, and not, is very close. I was very careful and tried coaxing and still bent the thing with the stock cooler. There is coaxing which makes scaping noises crackling noises, then there is zen coaxing. I think it is rediculous that the line is so fine between the two.

[alleycat]

I'll have to admit that the instructions that come with the Ninja are a bit 'minimal'. I mounted the HS with the motherboard outside of the case, and I did not have any sensation that the board was being warped. The pressure used on the clips wasn't that bad. Just push them down until they clip into place, don't worry. It's a great heatsink with a nice retention mechanism, which is quite easy to use if you follow the instructions I posted above. Once you've done it you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.

[Freelancer77]

I have no experience with the Ninja, and have no reason to downplay it. From all reviews, appearances and comments, it's a great heatsink.

But for anyone building a system with a San Diego core processor who isn't intending to overclock, I highly recommend the Arctic Cooling Freezer64. It is lightweight, a piece of cake to mount, has a remarkable thermal coefficient, and costs around half the price of a Ninja. The uncaged fan spins quite slowly, so is nearly silent, and does a terrific job of cooling.

Last night I ran Prime95 torture test for about an hour. The CPU temp rose from an idle of 36C to a max of 45C in about 6 minutes, and stayed there the rest of the run. The Freezer64 fan speed followed from a low of 867 to a high of 1382. Within 3 minutes of closing Prime95 the CPU was back to 36C.

I attribute more than half of those results to the San Diego core. It has incredibly low power consumption for the performance. But the heatsink absolutely does it's job very well. I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that AS5 was used as well.

This was taken just now, as I'm writing this post. All the fans are running, believe it or not. You can see one blade from the Freezer64.



The heatsink feels no warmer than ambient air...

[Vulcan]

The freezer 64 is definatly a great heatsink for the money. I think they need to make a version with a 120mm fan. I was going to get a ninja, but because of a lack of availability I'm goign to get a freezer 64 to hold me over.

[Oliver]

I'll have to admit that the instructions that come with the Ninja are a bit 'minimal'. I mounted the HS with the motherboard outside of the case, and I did not have any sensation that the board was being warped. The pressure used on the clips wasn't that bad. Just push them down until they clip into place, don't worry. It's a great heatsink with a nice retention mechanism, which is quite easy to use if you follow the instructions I posted above. Once you've done it you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.

Thanks for the info.

Yeh, since I did not think anybody was fussing over the amd heatsink clips, I figured that ignoring all that crinkly crackling scrapping noises would be fine, as everyone must experience because i did just like the directions showed me. But I wound up with a bent board.

Is the force required for the Ninja clips less than or more than the amd stock heatsink clips? Which needs more pressure to mount? Did you put your other hand on the backside of the boarrd on the backplate, while pushing the heatsink clips down? Wouldn't that help a lot to prevent board bending?

[alleycat]

No, I don't know what the stock AMD HSF is like. I installed the Ninja with the motherboard sitting on the table on that thin piece of foam that comes with the motherboard packaging. I didn't touch the underside of the motherboard, nor do I think you should. At no time did the force required seem so excessive that it would bend the board.

[Oliver]

Me with my bent board ....... I must be such a Noob!

Did your board come inside a antistatic bag, with the foam outside the bag, or did you board come from the manufacturer directly touching the foam? THe foam on my board was outide the antistatic bag, so I figured that I could not touch the board to the foam for fear of static. Is their a difference in foam? I noticed the amd processor has the pins in foam, but that seems like special foam.

So, in short, do you have to cut open the antistatic bag, and have the foam underneath, or can you take it out of the antistatic bag , and stick it directly on the foarm without fear of static ?

[alleycat]

I think I put it directly on the foam, but I'm not sure. I wasn't too worried about it. I always touch the PSU casing before I touch anything else, though.