Replacement for Zalman 7000?

Box · Post by **Box** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:23 pm

Hey, this is my situation:
I've been able to quiet my system down up to the point where the loudest parts are the psu fans and the fan on my zalman 7000.

The system consists of the following:
AMD XP 2600+ (Barton core) on Asus A7N8X-E deluxe (stock speeds)
GeForce fx5200, passively cooled
Antec 3700AMB, with the PSU that comes standard with it (SmartPower 350W ?)

Now, I'm planning on replacing the PSU with a Seasonic S12 380W (the lowest power Seasonic I can get my hands on in Belgium) because I've learned from reading that it's not worth trying to mod the one I have to quiet it down. Please correct me on this issue if I'm wrong!

The problem is that my zalman has started making a sort of humming noise lately. Turning the speed down (to about 700rpm) gets rid of all the wind noise but the humming seems to get even louder (could be subjective though). Now I was wondering if it would be best to do a fan swap on the zalman or replace the heatsink altogether (with a scythe katana, thermalright SI-97, ... other options are welcome)?
In case of fan swap, which would be a good fan to use (Nexus and Panaflo are not available here as far as I know)?
In case of new heatsink, what are your recommendations?

PS: If I replace the zalman, I have another system which I'd use it on that can use some quieting down, but silence isn't necessary there so neither is a fan swap. Just so you know the zalman wouldn't just go to waste

Thanks...

teejay · Post by **teejay** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:00 pm

My XP3200+ Barton chugs away nicely (and quietly) with a Nexus 92mm fan on it... slightly undervolted, it runs at ~1000rpm which is completely inaudible in my setup and even very quiet on an open testbench. At full load it gets up to about 58C in an Antec 3000B with 2x Nexus 120mm at 550rpm... but since it has been assigned file server duties it rarely goes above 45C (core temperature, socket temp is at or 40C). A fan swap is not difficult, although I have to admit destroying a perfectly good Nexus fan just by being impatient a few weeks ago

Why would a Nexus fan not be available in Belgium? I'm pretty sure silentPCshop.nl ships to most countries, so unless shipping proves to be insanely expensive... but there are other fan options, like Chieftec and Akasa... undervolted enough they might be good enough noisewise.

You won't regret getting a Seasonic: it's a good quality product and it will give you a bit of future-proofness. My only remark would be that it carries ATX12V 2.x specification whereas your board needs 1.3. In theory this could mean that the S12 might not have adequate power for the 5V lines, but in practice I highly doubt this. Plus it comes with a cool "powered by Seasonic" case badge... which gives you bragging rights in certain circles

diver · Post by **diver** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:06 pm

Humming at low fan rpm might be a cavity resonance. Listen carefully while removing the cover from your case and see if the hum goes away.

I managed to tune one of these out of my system through fan speed adjustments, changing the length of the CAG and blocking off some unneeded air intakes.

Box · Post by **Box** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:09 pm

Nope, no resonance. I actually took the whole system out of the case the last few days to be able to analyse the different sources of noise better. So you can rule that out...
As for the Nexus: shipping is usually pretty expensive (15-20€), but I guess I can have it shipped to my brother since he lives in the netherlands. How about Papst though? I know they're more expensive, but are they as good as the Nexus, because they are easier to get by over here...
Temperatures are not an issue btw. At the lowest setting I'm getting temperatures of ~40°C (~55°C on diode, I think) so I guess that's pretty safe. I've never seen it go over 45°C.
Can anyone else comment on the PSU? Does anyone think it can really become a problem? Other stuff I've got in the system are:
1 DVD-RW drive
1 Seagate Barracuda V 80Gb (used as backup, and usually not in the system)
1 Samsung SP120 200Gb
2 x 512mb GEIL value ram pc3200

A very basic system which I am not planning on upgrading/changing since it soothes my needs perfectly. The only thing that might get added someday is soundcard...

teejay · Post by **teejay** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:19 pm

If you're shipping to the Netherlands, azerty.nl has good prices (and service). The newest Papst are reportedly OK again, I only have experience with the older (white labeled) versions which were too much hit-and-miss for my taste. The problem with that Antec PSU is that you cannot lower airflow enough to achieve both adequate cooling and near-silence. Unless you build a duct for it: that way you can probably lower airflow by installing another Nexus... but that last statement is not based on any evidence, only experiences with my Zalman ZM400A which works fine like that with a Nexus 80mm at 750rpm.

Box wrote:... Can anyone else comment on the PSU? ...

Oops, didn't realize I didn't qualify for a response

Box · Post by **Box** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:28 pm

Oops, didn't realize I didn't qualify for a response Smile

I didn't in any way mean that

. I do appreciate all the advice you give. It just seemed to me like you weren't quite sure on the matter, so others peoples opinions are always welcome...

I'm actually also a bit concerned on the fact that the Seasonic, like just about every PSU out there nowadays, has the fan at the bottom sucking hot air in from the CPU-area. This makes it very hard to duct it without moving it forward in the case (which I probably will be doing in due time) ...

Is the Seasonic not going to ramp up when it also partially acts as a CPU cooler?

teejay · Post by **teejay** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:39 pm

Just kidding there

My point was: I have yet to cook a PSU with a low-airflow fan swap, but some of them have run very, very hot (over 70C on the internal heatsinks) so I really would not recommend that for a prolonged period of time unless you keep a keen eye on it. As long as you keep your rear case fan in your 3700 there is little change a S12 would speed up its fan a lot. I had a Nexus 400W powersupply with a Nexus casefan in my Barton-rig before I remodelled the case with a duct and that never used to speed up much. Since an S12 has ever higher efficiency it won't heat up quickly under load so it will probably keep its fan speed low.

Having said all that, ducting a bottom feeding PSU in a regular ATX case can be a pain in the (fill in some sensitive bodypart). My bottom line: if you are going for lowest possible noise levels, then with modding you could build a duct and install a Nexus 80mm on your existing PSU. Hook it up to the existing fan controller and you'd have a temperature controlled fan. Otherwise, the S12 will probably be in the same noise-ballpark and take (a lot) less effort to set up.

Tibors · Post by **Tibors** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:35 pm

Box wrote:How about Papst though? I know they're more expensive, but are they as good as the Nexus, because they are easier to get by over here...

I read this thread yesterday and thought about the Papst fans. Then I did a quick search on google.be. The first three suppliers I found, all had pictures of old (white label) Papst fans in stead of new (blue & white label) EBM-Papst fans. Then I gave up the search.

Box · Post by **Box** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:30 am

So what you're saying is best not go for Papst?
I take it with the "hit or miss" thing you mean that some are good and some aren't (I guess I got lucky then, I've got a 120mm white-labelled one which is a dream - at 5V at least...).
If I can get the new blue and white labelled ones, will I be "safe"?
If not I'll just see what I can do to get my hands on Nexus

Tibors · Post by **Tibors** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:04 am

I wasn't completely awake then, so it might have come out a bit confusing.

What I was trying to say is: White label have lots of reports of clickety fans (but not all) and I have personal experience with them clicking. For blue & white label I have only seen possitive reports, but no personal experience. There are also not many peple on these boards that have had the newer EBM-Papst fans, due to the $ vs. € not making them very availlable in North America.

It also depends on how sensitive to noise you are. I think the average user wouldn't really notice even a clickety Papst at 5V. For me it was enough to put them in the parts bin. I'll probably use some of them in my soon to be file server, which will get stuck in a kitchen closet. There I won't be able to hear them over the fridge.

Maybe you could mail some of the supliers in Belgium to ask them if they really still sell old fans or that they are just using old pictures on their website.

Box · Post by **Box** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:12 pm

Well I think I am pretty sensitive, and getting more so by the day. Lets just say Ive got to a stage where just about everyone I know is making fun of me because I'm trying to quiet down a sytem that's already 'silent' (to their ears).
I do think a clicking noise would bother me, although I haven't experienced it yet (my 120mm papst is dead silent; all I can hear with my ear within 5cm is a wee bit of wind noise).
The Zalmans humming isn't loud either, but it's there, and it's bothering me. Because when I want silence, it's not there (at least not when my pc is running). And the worst part is that that particular noise seems to be getting worse, because when I just had the Zalman I couldn't hear it at all over the PSU. Now, it's singing along (though I can't say for sure wether it really is getting worse, or wether it's my hearing getting more sensitive).
I guess I'll have a look around in a few shops and see if they have the new ones. Maybe they'll let me see some... If not I'll just have to go for Nexus (I will be save with those then won't I?), I don't feel like spending money on stuff that isn't going to help me...