Cooling an AMD X2 3800; Third Party vs. New Fan?

Tyrven · Post by **Tyrven** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:55 pm

The idea of using a stock cooler for a CPU seems stupid (from a noise perspective) but I did it anyway after reading this review. When I decided to go with the better value X2 3800, however, I didn't stop to think about the fact that it would be a different cooler.

The cooler that comes with X2 3800 isn't bad at all. At idle, my CPU remains at a modest 29*C and rarely bumps up above 35*C. It's also not that noisy, but it's still a contributor (especially as the CPU heats up). My plan was to try it out and if it wasn't quiet enough then replace it with a Thermaltake SI-120.

Given where I'm at now, I have two questions:

1. If I were to replace the 60mm stock fan (but keep the heat sink) with a quieter option, will this be adequate? My main concern here is whether a quiet fan will provide enough airflow to keep the stock heatsink quiet. If so, any recommendations? Nexus is my preferred fan, but I know they're also relatively low on airflow; perhaps Papst?

2. If the above is not recommended and I instead go with a SI-120, what is the preferred method of removing the stock thermal pad from my CPU die? Will this be a problem when adding, say, artic silver with the SI-120?

Thanks for your help. Any experience from people who have cooled dual core athlons would be especially useful, but general tips/thoughts are very welcome.

P.S., I am using a Lian Li PC-V1000 chassis, so it's sitting on the floor under my desk at least one meter away. As such, I don't need it to be absolutely silent but I do want it to be unintrusive.

Tyrven · Post by **Tyrven** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:19 am

Oh, c'mon-- I'm sure someone has something to say about this

Anyway, revision: the stock heatsink fan is actually a 70mm not a 60mm. Given that 70mm is even harder to find quiet fans at than 60mm (given the odd shape) I am thinking of just going with the latter option (using either a SI-120 or a Ninja). Now I just need to confirm that either of those will fit in my Lian Li PC-V1000 chassis.

I'm also assuming that removing the stock thermal material from the CPU die and applying AS5 ought not be a problem.

Can anyone confirm any of this?

Juliusz · Post by **Juliusz** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:45 am

I can say about it something. I've used that stock cooler. I removed the stock material with AS5 but only because of that i must mount it for the second time. I remove it using cosmetic alcohol. I think it'll fit but i'm not sure... In my opinion the stock heatsink has bad fins construction to work with low rpm/low cfm fans. I think the MORE better choice is buying a scythe ninja. you'll be very happy with it like me

Tyrven · Post by **Tyrven** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:58 am

Awesome. Thanks for your reply, Julius. I'm going to put in an order for this tomorrow. Once I'm done I'll post this to the user projects forum

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Currently, the fan on my X3800 almost never turns on -- but when it does, it's irritating. Also, I'm thinking about overclocking it a tad (as it's a very overclockable chip, in general) and I'm sure that'll benefit from some extra cooling. I'm hoping the Scythe will allow me to increase the clockspeed while not increasing the noise.

Juliusz · Post by **Juliusz** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 2:24 am

No problem

And about overclocking using Scythe i can't say much about it. I don't OC my CPU because it's enough fast for meand i don't wan't to have any heat related prob with chipset or something. OCing it's not good idea when you have low airflow system. But when You add some airflow onto the components which are mainly exposed to overheating : chipset(only when passive), ram, mosfets and other things like that

that thought

I think it'll fit but i'm not sure...

is related to your considerations about Ninja(it's not clear in my previous post)

Ironic · Post by **Ironic** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:07 am

error sorry

Ironic · Post by **Ironic** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:07 am

If I had a good spare 92mm fan, replacing the stock one is what I would try first.

That's what I did with my 3000+ (which is a bit overclocked at stock voltage).
I have the box heatsink with a 92mm SE2 mounted with wire and I find the result satisfying.
The 3800+ is not exactly in the same league as the 3000+ in terms of power consumption but the heatsink is better so It could be ok.
It also depends on the quietness of your other parts.

Tyrven · Post by **Tyrven** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:16 am

Ironic: I have a spare 120mm but no spare (quiet) 92 (or below). At a 70mm heat sink I'd definitely have to mount the fan separately with wire. Alternatively, my case ships with an optional 120mm case fan that can be put above the CPU, albeit about 60mm above the heat sink (not sure if that'd be too far away, although it's also only about 80mm from the rear exhaust fan (pushing inward) so that might do the trick.

I might OC it tomorrow and see how hot it gets (i.e., how much cooling / airflow I need to compensate). If I can get away with using my existing fans (or replacing them with super-quiet alternatives) that's obviously preferred to shelling out $50 for a Scythe. Although if the Scythe allows me to push it further while keeping it quiet (or visa versa) then that's money well spent!

slimeballzz · Post by **slimeballzz** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:17 am

I have a Scythe Ninja with 2 Nexus 120mm Fans being controlled by SpeedFan. I've also have it overclocked to 2.5Ghz (250x10 @ 1.40v ) and am running RMClock since I can't activate Cool & Quiet when overclocking.

The 2 Nexus runs at 50% when the computer is idling (250x6 @ 1.3v) and temp is at 43°C. However, my system becomes unstable if running at full load for a extended period of time as it gets too hot even when the fans are running at 100%.

Tyrven · Post by **Tyrven** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:28 am

slimeballzz wrote:The 2 Nexus runs at 50% when the computer is idling (250x6 @ 1.3v) and temp is at 43°C. However, my system becomes unstable if running at full load for a extended period of time as it gets too hot even when the fans are running at 100%.

Wow, that's good to know. I've read a number of places that the 2.5GHZ OC is relatively straight forward with that chip and I was going to aim for that -- but those weren't from sources that were concerned with noise and probably had far more fans than I'd prefer.

slimeballzz wrote:I have a Scythe Ninja with 2 Nexus 120mm Fans being controlled by SpeedFan. I've also have it overclocked to 2.5Ghz (250x10 @ 1.40v ) and am running RMClock since I can't activate Cool & Quiet when overclocking.

Is the inability to use C+Q while overclocking universal or specific to your board or chipset? Also, does C+Q relate to the PWM fan speed control or is it totally unrelated to fan speed (and more like Intel's Speedstep, say)? (I'm obviously new to the AMD camp; I did a quick search on AMD's site but it was just a bunch of marketing heehaw).

Part of my cost justifcation for the Scythe is the fact that with at most two major fans in my computer (120 rear exhaust and 120 on the Scythe) I can get away with using my motherboard's CPU fan control to keep noise bearable while still having he capacity to accomodate for load; if that ability is lost I'll need to invest in a fan controller as well (which may not seem like a bad idea, but I have expensive tastes apparently and the t-Balancer may just be too damned cool for me to compromise on anything else heh).

Unfortunately, while SpeedFan supports my chipset (and visa versa), my motherboard doesn't apparently tie into the proper interface. Only one of the fans and one of the sensors detected actually report properly and none of the speed controls function = disappointing. I took a risk on my motherboard purchase and this is the consequence

.

slimeballzz · Post by **slimeballzz** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:48 am

Tyrven wrote:
slimeballzz wrote:The 2 Nexus runs at 50% when the computer is idling (250x6 @ 1.3v) and temp is at 43°C. However, my system becomes unstable if running at full load for a extended period of time as it gets too hot even when the fans are running at 100%.
Wow, that's good to know. I've read a number of places that the 2.5GHZ OC is relatively straight forward with that chip and I was going to aim for that -- but those weren't from sources that were concerned with noise and probably had far more fans than I'd prefer.

I'm pretty sure you can hit 2.5GHz easy and maybe even stable at full load for any amount of time since your case has air coming in from the front of the case I believe.

Tyrven wrote:
slimeballzz wrote:I have a Scythe Ninja with 2 Nexus 120mm Fans being controlled by SpeedFan. I've also have it overclocked to 2.5Ghz (250x10 @ 1.40v ) and am running RMClock since I can't activate Cool & Quiet when overclocking.
Is the inability to use C+Q while overclocking universal or specific to your board or chipset? Also, does C+Q relate to the PWM fan speed control or is it totally unrelated to fan speed (and more like Intel's Speedstep, say)? (I'm obviously new to the AMD camp).

Part of my cost justifcation for the Scythe is the fact that with at most two major fans in my computer I can get away with using my motherboard's CPU fan control to keep noise bearable while accomodating for load; if that ability is lost I'll need to invest in a fan controller as well (which may not seem like a bad idea, but I have expensive tasts apparently and the t-balancer may just be too damned cool for me to compromise on anything else hah).

Unfortunately, while SpeedFan supports my chipset my motherboard doesn't apparently tie into it's controls. Only one of fans and one of the sensors are even detected properly and none of the speed controls appear to work = disappointing. I took a risk on my motherboard and this is the consequence .

I'm pretty sure it's universal that you have to disable C+Q when overclocking. Sorry I don't know much either with C+Q since I've never actually used it before because I overclock straight out of the box.

Heh wish I had the $$$ for a T-Balancer

What motherboard do you have?

Tyrven · Post by **Tyrven** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:03 am

Yeah - the airflow on the V1000 (at least across the CPU) is really quite nice. I'll give it a shot and see what I can do.

I don't know if I can really justify the T-Balancer. This started out as a $750 secondary machine that I could use as a basic terminal server (for the few programs I still depend on Windows for); then I decided to run Vista on it which added a couple hundred to the hardware requirements (namely a video card); and then I decided to make it quiet as well -- and I'm sure you know the rest. I'm already reaching close to double my original budget and while it's a fun challenge I'm sure there are home maintenence projects that are falling behind as a result

.

I got the Biostar TForce non-SLI motherboard. It was one of the few motherboards on NewEgg that was under $200 and wasn't chock full of reviews complaining about compatibility issues, DOA notices and instability concerns. Overall, it's been a pleasant surprise: the packaging was beautiful with lots of extras, it's a nicely designed board and the support has been exceptional. There are a couple of minor layout issues with it and I had to dig up some beta drivers for the NVidia NForce4U chipset to get the sound and LAN to work in Vista, but that would have applied to most any board I got. The overclocking on it seems really solid (I'm a noob on that front, but it has received good reviews and seems to have everything I need to push my system a bit further).

But yeah - lack of SpeedFan (or whatever the bus interface it uses) support is annoying (although I understand that to be intermittent with most manufacturers). Also, it has a few quirks (such as the front audio port connectors disabling the rear audio ports) or two of the SATA II headers being really close to the PCI-Express port. Outside of that, it's a great board for $85.

Shadowknight · Post by **Shadowknight** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:35 am

http://www.shoppts.com/scniw12nesic.html
Ninja with Nexus fan for $48

Tyrven · Post by **Tyrven** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:37 pm

Wow, sweet - thank you! I was going to order GlobalWins but the only retailer I can find just sold out yesterday and doesn't expect them back until mid-late March. That said, this is a great deal and makes getting the Nexus a no brainer.

TooNice · Post by **TooNice** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:53 am

Lucky!

That is half the price of a Ninja + Yate Loon over here!

Actually, I have a similar problem now. I have an Opteron 165, but I am not sure whether to stick with the stock cooler, or go ahead and get the Ninja. The Ninja cost a fair fortune here ($55), though I already have some 120mm Yate Loons at my disposal. I do intend to overclock.

Is it worth giving my system a go with the stock cooler, or is it most likely going to be inadequate?

If I hold back now, I am pretty sure I'll get the NCU-3000 when it is released.

Tyrven · Post by **Tyrven** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:44 pm

Does your Operton ship with the new AMD stock cooler? The one with the heatpipes? If so, I'd stick with that -- from what I've read, it's not a huge performance difference between the stock cooler and the best CPU coolers.

Of course, you might want to undervolt the Delta Screamer (or let your motherboard manage it, if it's not already).

hvengel · Post by **hvengel** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 3:58 pm

I have a 4800+ and ran the stock cooler for a while. I have since replaced it with an SI-120 with a Yate loon fan and it runs about 10C cooler and is significantly less noisy. So the stock cooler is better than I had expected but not nearly as good as the better after market coolers.

Tyrven · Post by **Tyrven** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:02 pm

That's good to know. If I can get better cooling performance I'll definitely be happy as that gives me more room to OC w/out adding too much noise. I ordered the Ninja w/ a Nexus yesterday.

TooNice · Post by **TooNice** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:43 pm

Is there anywhere I can get a review/comparison of the stock heatpipe AMD cooler and some of those larger towers?

Tyrven · Post by **Tyrven** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:49 pm

I've come across a number of reviews of the stock cooler for the AMD Athlon X2 4400 and above (the one with the heatpipes). While most of them aren't compared directly to the tours or approached from the perspective of noise, the conclusions I keep seeing is that they're competitive.

This brings up a quirk of testing processes: most people immediately dismiss the stock coolers (for obvious historical reasons). However, AMD seems to be doing a good job shipping with decent CPU heatsinks now; while the fans may still need to be replaced, I'd like to see more reviews including the stock cooler.

One of the challenges for this from SPCR's perspective, of course, is that they are generally measuring on a controlled setup using a specific prescot processor (which makes a lot of sense as it provides a level playing field for testing heat sinks). Getting these heatsinks and then being able to fit them accordingly will be a challenge.

TooNice · Post by **TooNice** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:16 pm

Ah, didn't think of that point.

Guess I'll try out this stock cooler. Actually, I don't even know if I have a heatpipe version. My opteron is still boxed (and being a low end dual core Opteron, it might not have heatpipe based coolers.

Cooling an AMD X2 3800; Third Party vs. New Fan?

How viable is replacing my stock CPU fan?

Cooling an AMD X2 3800; Third Party vs. New Fan?