Trying to choose between 4 heatsinks

Fedor · Post by **Fedor** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:03 am

So, I've been looking to upgrade my XP-120 since my CPU temps on load are at roughly 69 degrees. If you're thinking "huh?", well I'm on the Prescott 3.4Ghz LGA775 CPU which according to the actual intel power sticky rates at over 150W. So back to the main point, I was choosing between:
Zalman CNPS9700
Scythe Ninja Plus Rev B
Thermalright Ultra 120
Noctua NH-U12F

The trouble I'm having is that no single site has a comparison of them all, and lots of them have contradictory data (like x beats y on one, but y beats x on another). However, compiling the many many sites I've read, I would say that Zalman < Scythe < Thermalright in general, ie the Thermalright comes out ahead. However, the Noctua is really hard to get a feel for, where does it come in, does anyone know for sure?

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:33 am

Hello & welcome to SPCR,

The Zalman is probably not in quite the same league as the others. The Ninja will be best in lower air flow situations (if it mounts tightly on your mobo, which is sometimes an issue), ans the Ultra-120 may edge ahead of the Ninja in higher air flow situations, though they are very close. I think those two are both a little better than the Noctua, though I'm only guessing.

Fedor · Post by **Fedor** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:44 am

Thank you for the welcome, and the reply!

There was one review (unfortunately I can't remember it now) where the Zalman beat the Noctua by miles, so that further confused me, and it's the only reason I included it on my list. I'm glad you've confirmed that it really isn't quite up to the standard of the others, so I'm dropping it now. As for the Noctua, I've seen one review where the Ultra 120 beat it by 1 degree. Considering that SPCR's own Ultra 120 review had it tie with and beat the Scythe, I would assume that the Noctua should be pretty much on par with the Scythe. And speaking of that review, I found it surprising that you said the Ninja will be best in lower air flow situations since in the SPCR review I just mentioned the Ultra 120 did not lose to the Scythe under any fan voltages.

But yeah, even if the Ultra and the Ninja are more or less tied at low airflow, I'm still very curious to know where the Noctua comes in. For the record, the Scythe is on average at least 15USD cheaper than the Thermalright and the Noctua here in the UK, so it might win on that front if their performance is so similar.

J. Sparrow · Post by **J. Sparrow** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:49 am

I went through a similar selection recently. After reading tons of reviews, I've discarded the Ninja for the mounting problems, the Noctua for its (supposed) inferior performance, and the Zalman for the noise. I wanted something that worked straight off, and I was not interested in a passive or semi-passive setup.

If you don't mind doing some modding, the Ninja and the 9700 are both interesting options. IMO the 9700 might need a different airflow setup in the case to work well, while the others work in the same way.

Fedor · Post by **Fedor** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:56 am

Yes the Zalman has fallen off my list, and I've been having second thoughts regarding the Ninja because of the frequent problems (it doesn't take a lot of effort to see how many of those threads are on Page 1 here). That leaves the Noctua and the Thermalright, and you said the Noctua has inferior performance, but where did you get that impression from?

Also, now that you have the Ultra 120, are you happy? Are the temps what you had hoped for? Any complaints?

J. Sparrow · Post by **J. Sparrow** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:17 am

here are some comparative reviews:

SPCR's review, Ninja beats the Noctua hands down.
Madshrips's test, the Freezer Pro overtakes the Noctua (this one is a little weird); Madshrimps did a roundup, too
Frostytech results on their synthetic testbed, but they didn't use the same fan IIRC!

You can find many others by googling a little... I ended up with the feeling that the Ultra-120 and the Ninja should perform more or less the same (unless you go semi-passive), while the Noctua was a little behind. I tried semi-passive with the Ultra-120 and it works, but the temperature is more stable with a fan attached.

I'm happy with my choice, the core temperature went down almost 10 Â°C and it's much quieter than the Freezer Pro I was running. The first three flaws I can think of? it's too expensive! it needs the S-Clip on many A64 systems (doesn't affect you, anyway) and finally... it's too bloody expensive

Fedor · Post by **Fedor** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:42 am

Well the Madshrimps one also seemed to use different fans. Frostytech definitely did, as you say. The thing is that even looking at Madshrimps they aren't specifically testing with low noise like SPCR do, so the picture can get inverted when using a lower RPM fan. But yeah, anyways... As for the SPCR review, I didn't think that I could use that one for reference since they use the NH-U12, and not the NH-U12F. I'm not sure if the supplied fan is the only difference because even the weight seems to have changed.

What fan are you using with the Ultra 120?

crispyfish · Post by **crispyfish** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:28 am

Fedor wrote:What fan are you using with the Ultra 120?

... and at what voltage?

These are the first questions that need to be answered before even considering another HS.

J. Sparrow · Post by **J. Sparrow** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:07 pm

Madshrimps' round up has several pages, there's one "with similar fan". AFAIK the other difference between U12 and U12F is the mounting system (allows for rotation on AMD systems)

I'm using an SFF21F @ ~1050 RPM max, actual speed depends on load.

Fedor · Post by **Fedor** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:16 pm

crispyfish wrote:
Fedor wrote:What fan are you using with the Ultra 120?
... and at what voltage?

These are the first questions that need to be answered before even considering another HS.

Well, I already know the answer to that question. I will be using the same fan that I've been using with the XP-120, since I can't find anything else that will keep the CPU cool enough to not throttle due to the 75 degree barrier. Surprisingly it's just a Thermaltake fan - A1928. It's rated at 21db and pushes 78CFM - I've yet to find another fan this quiet that even comes CLOSE to this throughput whilst being as quiet as it is. I even got the Zalman ZM-F3 hoping I could use my fan controller to get a better performance/noise result but the Zalman was only marginally better at full speed which is 34db and is by comparison very very loud. The Thermaltake spins at 2000 btw.

But back to my "I can't find anything else that will keep the CPU cool enough to not throttle", that's why I want to upgrade, it will enable me to at least try to use an even slower fan (like for example the Xilence 12cm I have here) whilst keeping the CPU cool enough.

crispyfish · Post by **crispyfish** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:26 pm

Fedor wrote:But back to my "I can't find anything else that will keep the CPU cool enough to not throttle", that's why I want to upgrade, it will enable me to at least try to use an even slower fan (like for example the Xilence 12cm I have here) whilst keeping the CPU cool enough.

I'm very surprised that your temps are so high with a 78CFM fan. Have you tried reapplying thermal compound?

Fedor · Post by **Fedor** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:31 pm

crispyfish wrote:
Fedor wrote:But back to my "I can't find anything else that will keep the CPU cool enough to not throttle", that's why I want to upgrade, it will enable me to at least try to use an even slower fan (like for example the Xilence 12cm I have here) whilst keeping the CPU cool enough.
I'm very surprised that your temps are so high with a 78CFM fan. Have you tried reapplying thermal compound?

Yes, the heatsink has come off and back on 3 times over the last 2 years and the temps have always been what they are. I'm using AS5 btw. I've been building my own computers for many many years though, and I don't think there is anything wrong with my methodology. You have to remember that iirc these Prescotts were the hottest CPUs ever made.

crispyfish · Post by **crispyfish** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:34 pm

Fedor wrote:Yes, the heatsink has come off and back on 3 times over the last 2 years and the temps have always been what they are. I'm using AS5 btw. I've been building my own computers for many many years though, and I don't think there is anything wrong with my methodology. You have to remember that iirc these Prescotts were the hottest CPUs ever made.

Okay, just checking. Carry on then.

Fedor · Post by **Fedor** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:51 pm

crispyfish wrote:
Fedor wrote:Yes, the heatsink has come off and back on 3 times over the last 2 years and the temps have always been what they are. I'm using AS5 btw. I've been building my own computers for many many years though, and I don't think there is anything wrong with my methodology. You have to remember that iirc these Prescotts were the hottest CPUs ever made.
Okay, just checking. Carry on then.

Hehehe... That's why I was hoping to get one of these heatsinks, cause they should provide like a 9-10 degree drop looking at reviews. That would go far to keep my mind at ease since I'm near the thermal threshold all the time (I run BOINC 24/7 so I'm always at full load).

By the way, I doubt the Thermaltake is actually 78CFM, however it does provide performance that is almost equivalent to the Zalman whilst being WAY quieter.

thejamppa · Post by **thejamppa** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:29 pm

Newest Noctua doesn't have problems securing tightly as Ninja Rev B in some cases. And you can using silent dual fan with Noctua as they supply with the cooler supplies for that. 6 years warranty is not bad either and Noctua's customers service is good.

However its how you prefer. Ninja Rev B has had its issues with mounting. If you're insecure how Ninja might mount and affect your temperatures, then Noctua might be for you as there is no problems mounting Noctua tightly.

Noctua however is heavier, bit more expensive and has less heatpipes than Ninja, so Ninja might out perfrom Noctua in lower speeds. of course that is dependable on surroundings.

Ninja is good choice, even it have had some mounting issues as you might have seen in SPCR forums.

But Noctua is not Bad (NH-U12/F has collected pretty impressive amount awards and recomendations in short period of time but so has ninja) either nor is Thermalright Ultra-120 (al though its pricey its well worth paying little extra for Thermalrights quality. They don't make crap).

P.S. I am getting my Noctua NH-U12F tomorrow and I will install it using dual fans undervolted. I am pretty exciting about that.

Fedor · Post by **Fedor** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:10 am

Well, I think I'll be choosing the Thermalright then. I've managed to find it for 32 pounds, which is cheaper than the Noctua by roughly 8 pounds (albeit the latter comes with an excellent fan). As for the fan, I'll stick my Thermaltake on first, and then see what temps are like before I do anything else.

Felger Carbon · Post by **Felger Carbon** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:38 am

Fedor wrote:[Surprisingly it's just a Thermaltake fan - A1928. It's rated at 21db and pushes 78CFM...

Fedor, I bet you believe everything you read.

The A1928 has a good chance of pushing 78CFM at 12V (full speed). At that speed, its noise will be in the 35-40dBA range, which is LOUD! It probably does measure 21dBA at its minimum speed, but of course pushes a whole lot less air at that minimum speed (whatever it is).

Measure 21dBA while pushing 78CFM? Do you believe in the tooth fairy and the Easter bunny?

Post by **MikeC** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:07 am

Actually, you should tell us your system config. With a fan like that, you'd think better cooling could be had with an XP-120.

BTW, if that fan is quiet enough for you, you should probably go for the Scythe Inifinity or Andy Samurai. Huge cooling surface area, tighter fin spacing. With high airflow, they probably beat just about everything else.

Erssa · Post by **Erssa** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:20 am

Fedor wrote:The trouble I'm having is that no single site has a comparison of them all, and lots of them have contradictory data (like x beats y on one, but y beats x on another). However, compiling the many many sites I've read, I would say that Zalman < Scythe < Thermalright in general, ie the Thermalright comes out ahead. However, the Noctua is really hard to get a feel for, where does it come in, does anyone know for sure?

Anandtech recently tested scythe Infinity and they mentioned, they have also Ultra-120, Noctua and Ninja Rev.B in the lab, so you can expect articles shortly. They already tested Zalman and it didn't fare so well in it.

Generally I don't give too much value for anandtech tests, but frankly I am really waiting to see the Ninja Rev.B results. People have given just too crossed information on it, so I cannot keep the SPCR (rev. a) test as 100% reliable information. I know at least Nici has asked SPCR to redo the Ninja test because of this similar thing, that alarms me a bit.

That said, I'm sure all of those heatsinks would do a fine job cooling your rig.

andyb · Post by **andyb** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:25 am

I was thinking something along the lines of the Infinity with 2 fans in a push pull config, you can have both fans ramp-up in unison as necessary, this should also reap the best out of the Infinity's close fin structure.

Also as Mike says, can we have your system specs.

It might be worth considering (depending on your mobo) a new CPU that is far cooler (and faster) to start with, thus solving your heatsink question, but this really depends on your mobo, and as far as noise is concerned - the rest of your system.

Andy

UrbanVoyeur · Post by **UrbanVoyeur** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:55 am

Just wondering - how's the overall airflow in your case? I wonder if you are pushing enough hot air out of the back or top?

I have a 3.4 Mhz dual core Intel with the SI-128 and 2.8 dual core with the XP-120 and I've never run temps that high, even after 7 hours of 100% load encoding video. I use them with 1200 RPM Scythe fans.

If you do use one of the newer thermal rights, be sure to get the LGA775 Bolt-Thru-Kit - the push pins are a pains an don't work well.

thejamppa · Post by **thejamppa** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:50 am

Infinity with Pull-Push configuration would be highly effective I think. I am bit worried though with Scythe's attachment on Infinity as that monstrocity is 960 grams alone, with 2 fans its over 1100 grams. A lot weight on VTMS... I'd prefer old "screws thru board" when your HSF cross' over 700 grams...

This is why I chose Noctua over Inifinity: Its lighter significantly, slightly smaller in size, has more secure attachment, supplies clips for two fans and you don't need to buy separate clips like in Inifnity or use DIY attachment, Noctua's fan is better than Scythe's when compearing bundled fans and Noctua's warranty is superior over Scythe's ( Noctua's 6 years vs. Scythe's 1 year )

I really like the secure attachement of Noctua and extra long warranty.

Fedor · Post by **Fedor** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:02 pm

Felger Carbon wrote:
Fedor wrote:[Surprisingly it's just a Thermaltake fan - A1928. It's rated at 21db and pushes 78CFM...
Fedor, I bet you believe everything you read. The A1928 has a good chance of pushing 78CFM at 12V (full speed). At that speed, its noise will be in the 35-40dBA range, which is LOUD! It probably does measure 21dBA at its minimum speed, but of course pushes a whole lot less air at that minimum speed (whatever it is).

Measure 21dBA while pushing 78CFM? Do you believe in the tooth fairy and the Easter bunny?

Well thats not really fair to say, as I mentioned earlier that I SERIOUSLY doubt that the fan pushes 78CFM. However, I do believe the 21db more or less, its the quietest fan in my case bar the X800XT cooler. Which reminds me, a number of you asked for system specs.

P4 3.4GHz E (Prescott on LGA775)
MSI 925XE Neo Platinum
1GB DDR2
Powercolor X800XT w/ Arctic Cooling Silencer
Seasonic S12 600W PSU
Lian Li 6070 Silent Case

As for fans, 2 x 80mm intake (the very quiet ADDA fans that came with the case) is installed, as well as an 80mm exhaust (thats all the case supports I'm afraid, and the inner structure wouldn't allow using something like a 80mm-120mm fan adapter) working together with the 120mm fan in the PSU to push air out.

Back to the CPU fan though, it may not be 21db but it's most certainly quiet, and it may not be 78CFM but it does as good a job temps-wise cooling my CPU as the Zalman fan on full speed, although the latter is WAY louder.

Thanks for all your input folks.

PS The case is clean, it has fan filters and stuff but I clean them regularly as well as anything else that needs cleaning, dust is not an issue.

Edit - Another PS - I can't buy a way faster and cooler CPU cause although the board is LGA775, the 925XE chipset doesn't support C2Ds or even the P4 dual-cores (not that they were cool by any means hehe).

UrbanVoyeur · Post by **UrbanVoyeur** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:44 pm

Edit - Another PS - I can't buy a way faster and cooler CPU cause although the board is LGA775, the 925XE chipset doesn't support C2Ds or even the P4 dual-cores (not that they were cool by any means hehe).

I guess that depends on how much you want to spend. I have two of these @ $50. They've worked flawlessly for the past 8 months. They support dual cores (I have 9xx series) and the Core 2's. Might be a path to a quieter, cooler CPU.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813157092

Fedor · Post by **Fedor** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:33 pm

Yeah, but 50 for that, more for the CPU itself, and then I'd be tempted to buy DDR2 800 ram to overclock the C2D if I had one. But I do see your point.

Anyhoo, I went for the Ultra-120 and it got delivered to me today. Man, it took hours to get everything right. Firstly, I had the XP-120 on there for about 2 years, and like the Ultra-120, the XP-120s backplate has a sticker type thing. That sticker was basically fused to the mobo after the two years, it took like half an hour to get the backplate off cause of how hard it was stuck on, and then well over an hour to try and get rid of as much of the remaining bits of sticker that were on the mobo and didnt come off. Had to gently use a knife to avoid scratching the mobo itself. Nightmare!

So, then once I got to the actual installation, things seemed REALLY easy. The spring screws that just stop turning is a fantastic, fool-proof way to mount, much better than the XP-120. So then I went to slide the mobo tray back into the case, and voila, the cooler was so tall that it didn't clear the case. So I had to unmount, and remount once the mobo was in the case. I only bothered measuring width, height and length, and didn't realise there was less clearance for the mobo tray! But yeah, got it on eventually.

Sitting on the Ultra-120 right now, full load with BOINC in the background as always. It's at 48 right now, and has peaked at 53 since I booted up. So we are talking like over a 15 degree boost, truly amazing. I also used Shin-Etsu X23 instead of my AS5 since I took the liberty of ordering it with the new heatsink. Despite the troubles I mentioned, these kinds of results were totally worth it.

Two other things. One, my system temps are now cooler also. Most reviews criticise the tower heatisnks for not cooling the motherboard, but it appears to me that by directing all the hot air straight towards the exhaust, it doesn't circulate, and thus the overall temps inside improve. Surprising, but true (system temp at 34 right now). Second thing is that I also bought the Vantec 80mm fan vibration dampener kit just to give it a try since I was ordering stuff, and it really works quite well! Considering it costs next to nothing, pick some up if you get a chance!

Conclusion - I'm very happy with the Ultra-120! So is my Prescott

Thanks for all your input folks!

J. Sparrow · Post by **J. Sparrow** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:26 am

Glad to see you're happy about your U120.

I agree with you on PWM cooling, the ultra-tall-120 seems to blow enough air over PWM to provide effective cooling.

Fedor · Post by **Fedor** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 5:28 pm

Just my luck about the Extreme version coming out now huh? Haha, oh well that's life for you (well, me

).

J. Sparrow · Post by **J. Sparrow** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:15 pm

Hmmmm the new U120E isn't listed on TR's own site, yet.

We should organize a class action and get all recently sold U120 replaced with the Extreme for free

Fedor · Post by **Fedor** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 12:38 pm

J. Sparrow wrote:Hmmmm the new U120E isn't listed on TR's own site, yet.

We should organize a class action and get all recently sold U120 replaced with the Extreme for free

If only :p
And if the Extreme version wasn't enough of a slap in the face, the IFX-14 certainly is!

J. Sparrow · Post by **J. Sparrow** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:37 pm

That IFX doesn't look too sexy to me. And the name... EXTINGUISHER! crash the case window in case of fire pffffftttttt

Trying to choose between 4 heatsinks

Trying to choose between 4 heatsinks

Re: Trying to choose between 4 heatsinks