Scythe Ninja or Scythe Kama Cross - Anyone Try Both?

Jason W · Post by **Jason W** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 5:54 pm

Has anyone tried both of these yet? I'm debating between these two for my next build. It will sit on top an E6600 on a P5W DH Deluxe mobo in an P180 or P182 case.

The Kama Cross looks like it would direct airflow towards the mobo, thereby offering some airflow across the northbridge heat sink and the rest of the mobo parts in the vicinity.

I'm also thinking that I'll have the rear case fan undervolted to keep the RPMs down and still evacuate the hot air. Not sure what I'll do with the top fan - use it or not?

I also plan on a fanless video card (Gigabyte 7600GT).

I'm not planning on this for a gaming rig build - the most intense operations to start with will be photo editing (Photoshop and the like), but could evolve into video editing down the road if I buy a camcorder.

I'm also on the fence about overclocking - I may or may not. Haven't decided that yet.

What say you?

andaca · Post by **andaca** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:35 am

none. both have poor mounting system. the Kama Cross will make your sys temps higher ( according 2 reviews) the ninja is a POS
( according my experience) go thermalright instead.

Jason W · Post by **Jason W** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:59 am

andaca wrote:none. both have poor mounting system. the Kama Cross will make your sys temps higher ( according 2 reviews) the ninja is a POS
( according my experience) go thermalright instead.

Wow, I haven't heard of these negatives here or elsewhere yet.

Which Thermalright product do you use?

thejamppa · Post by **thejamppa** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 3:40 am

If you want constructive criticism: Thermalright is greedy corporation that makes good HSF, but never supplies fan and delivers only few socket adapter's with its coolers, so you would need to go buy relatively expensive Thermy kits. While considering that Thermalright's coolers are either way expensive and you need to get fan and if you use some older sockets, sheeh... You can add 20 to 40$ bucks immediately to price of Thermalright's cooler.

And Ninja is not POS, its LGA-775 attachment is maybe not best one and needs and mobo needs to be taken out to make sure that the fourth push pin actually locks into its place. When Mobo is not removed for this, then its usually not locked, causing Ninja to have poor performance in LGA-775 socket in so many cases.

burebista · Post by **burebista** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 4:56 am

andaca wrote:[...]the ninja is a POS ( according my experience)[...]

According to my experience is brilliant.
- on my X2 is fanless
- on my brother-in-law E6400 stock is fanless

And we have here 38Â°C outdoor now.

Jason W · Post by **Jason W** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:27 am

burebista wrote:
andaca wrote:[...]the ninja is a POS ( according my experience)[...]
According to my experience is brilliant.
- on my X2 is fanless
- on my brother-in-law E6400 stock is fanless

And we have here 38Â°C outdoor now.

This is more along the lines of what I have been reading about the Ninja. I feel good about the Ninja, but was wondering if the Kama Cross might be just as good at cooling the CPU, but also provide the added benefit of blowing air across the northbridge and VRM on a Asus P5W DH Deluxe mobo.

thejamppa · Post by **thejamppa** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:10 am

Any downwards blowing fan would cool VRMS etc. But Kama Cross is not high end cooler, but rather a entry lever cooler. So it is not same level with Ninja or Infinity. It might be bit worse than Mine.

It still has very good side that it has 100mm silent fan and its 120mm fan ready. Its like "add Scythe S-flex 1200 rpm on me". But I am not sure how effective cooling that has, since fan doesn't blow thru fins like in standard fans, but fan is positioned up away from fins. This makes turbulence sound almost non-existing but it also affects cooling effectiveness.

crispyfish · Post by **crispyfish** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:50 am

andaca wrote:none. both have poor mounting system. the Kama Cross will make your sys temps higher ( according 2 reviews) the ninja is a POS
( according my experience) go thermalright instead.

In my experience, the Ninja mounting system is very easy and secure. I'm using it on a S939 board, and I didn't even have to change the mounting bracket. In comparison, the Thermalright SI-128 was a pain to install, and as thejamppa noted, it didn't come with a fan. Both have good performance, but the Ninja is easier to install and a better value overall.

thejamppa · Post by **thejamppa** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:07 am

crispyfish wrote:
andaca wrote:none. both have poor mounting system. the Kama Cross will make your sys temps higher ( according 2 reviews) the ninja is a POS
( according my experience) go thermalright instead.
In my experience, the Ninja mounting system is very easy and secure. I'm using it on a S939 board, and I didn't even have to change the mounting bracket. In comparison, the Thermalright SI-128 was a pain to install, and as thejamppa noted, it didn't come with a fan. Both have good performance, but the Ninja is easier to install and a better value overall.

Yeah, mounting however is different with Intels boards and AMD's boards. While AMD's installation is foolproof, LGA-775 boards should be removed so you can push all 4 push pins down and lock and make sure its locked. If you don't take MB out, you have change that one of the four pins is not secured, causing the poor pressure.

crispyfish · Post by **crispyfish** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:09 am

thejamppa wrote:Yeah, mounting however is different with Intels boards and AMD's boards. While AMD's installation is foolproof, LGA-775 boards should be removed so you can push all 4 push pins down and lock and make sure its locked. If you don't take MB out, you have change that one of the four pins is not secured, causing the poor pressure.

Good point... why can't these people just agree on a single mounting mechanism? What does anyone gain by having so many different types?

thejamppa · Post by **thejamppa** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:23 am

crispyfish wrote:
thejamppa wrote:Yeah, mounting however is different with Intels boards and AMD's boards. While AMD's installation is foolproof, LGA-775 boards should be removed so you can push all 4 push pins down and lock and make sure its locked. If you don't take MB out, you have change that one of the four pins is not secured, causing the poor pressure.
Good point... why can't these people just agree on a single mounting mechanism? What does anyone gain by having so many different types?

General practice in engineering and commerce is that newer think as simple or make things as simply as layman would make it. Besides I don't think it would be any realistic anymore to expect AMD using Intels mounting like in times of K5's and K6's...

crispyfish · Post by **crispyfish** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:27 am

The thing is, AMD and Intel CPUs already have incompatible sockets. I can definitely understand the rationale for that. But you could have the same mounting mechanism for both, and the chips still wouldn't be interchangeable. Oh well, I'm sure there's a good business reason for it that I'm just not aware of.

thejamppa · Post by **thejamppa** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:28 am

crispyfish wrote:The thing is, AMD and Intel CPUs already have incompatible sockets. I can definitely understand the rationale for that. But you could have the same mounting mechanism for both, and the chips still wouldn't be interchangeable. Oh well, I'm sure there's a good business reason for it that I'm just not aware of.

You need to learn think like an engineer. Then this makes sense

crispyfish · Post by **crispyfish** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:32 am

thejamppa wrote:You need to learn think like an engineer. Then this makes sense

Apparently.

I used to be a programmer, and the general principle there was "just make it work." Now I work in the patent field, and the general principle is "make it so a jury will understand it." Maybe that's why I want everything to be as straightforward as possible.

Mr Evil · Post by **Mr Evil** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:38 am

thejamppa wrote:You need to learn think like an engineer. Then this makes sense

I don't know about that: As an engineer, I like standardization... and mysterious flashing lights... but mostly standardization.

Spanki · Post by **Spanki** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:42 pm

According to MADSHRIMPS review...

Pentium 524 @ 3682MHz - 1.36vcore
K7Burn @ 100% load, Room temp 22C, ambient noise 37.8 dBA

Ninja + NCB Fan @ High - 52.5C (47.3 dBA @ 5cm)
Ninja + NCB Fan @ Low - 55C (39.7 dBA @ 5cm)
Kama + STK Fan @ High - 55C (44.5 dBA @ 5cm)
Kama + NCB Fan @ High - 56.5C (47.3 dBA @ 5cm)
Kama + STK Fan @ Low - 63.5C (40.1 dBA @ 5cm)
Kama + NCB Fan @ Low - 67C (39.7 dBA @ 5cm)

...I'd also note that, at least in MADSHRIMPS earlier review (on an AMD platform), that the Scythe Mine cools as well as the Ninja when they both use the same fan, but the Mine actually cools the PWM/VRM better (both outperform the Infinity with that fan). So even though Scythe doesn't promote the Mine in the same 'performance class' as the Ninja, testing shows otherwise.

FrostyTech's testing of the Mine and Kama Cross also show a similar gap between these coolers.

Spanki · Post by **Spanki** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:49 pm

BTW, the 'NCB' fan referenced above is the GlobalWin NCB 1202512L and can be compared to the Nexus fan in this review for reference (appears to perform a bit better on a heatsink than the Nexus).

Spanki · Post by **Spanki** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:59 pm

thejamppa wrote:
crispyfish wrote:
andaca wrote:none. both have poor mounting system. the Kama Cross will make your sys temps higher ( according 2 reviews) the ninja is a POS
( according my experience) go thermalright instead.
In my experience, the Ninja mounting system is very easy and secure. I'm using it on a S939 board, and I didn't even have to change the mounting bracket. In comparison, the Thermalright SI-128 was a pain to install, and as thejamppa noted, it didn't come with a fan. Both have good performance, but the Ninja is easier to install and a better value overall.
Yeah, mounting however is different with Intels boards and AMD's boards. While AMD's installation is foolproof, LGA-775 boards should be removed so you can push all 4 push pins down and lock and make sure its locked. If you don't take MB out, you have change that one of the four pins is not secured, causing the poor pressure.

I think 3R System has come up with a good mounting system that addresses pretty much all of those concerns, except maybe not having a backplate to spread the weight of really heavy heatsinks (of course it might also interfere with PWM heatsinks on some boards).

Lt_Dan · Post by **Lt_Dan** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:05 am

i just installed the Ninja instead of my Zalman 7700alcu.
it cools much better!
and it's very easy to install!
but, it's default noise is nosier then the zalman.
thing is, i don't know how i can slow it down to make it quieter. - does anyone know? i have speedfan but it doesn't work to change the speed.
thanks.
Dan

thejamppa · Post by **thejamppa** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:14 pm

Lt_Dan wrote:i just installed the Ninja instead of my Zalman 7700alcu.
it cools much better!
and it's very easy to install!
but, it's default noise is nosier then the zalman.
thing is, i don't know how i can slow it down to make it quieter. - does anyone know? i have speedfan but it doesn't work to change the speed.
thanks.
Dan

you can try speed fan, (Zalman's) inline resistor, get fan controller or change default fan into more quiet fan, like Scythe Sflex-D or E models.

Lt_Dan · Post by **Lt_Dan** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:32 pm

i tried speedfan for some reason it doesn't control my spped