Proposed Ninja mod for better heatpipe absorption

miahallen · Post by **miahallen** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:39 pm

I recently upgraded to the Q6600 and wanted to OC it quite a bit. Right now I'm running it at 400x8 (3.2GHz) with 1.325V. Right now my load temps are hitting 68C. I'd like to bring the multiplier up to 9x400 (3.6GHz) but the processors going to need a healthy bump in voltage to get there (It'll boot Vista with 1.375V), probably 1.45V or so. So, obviously, I need more/better cooling.

I started by lapping the base of my Ninja, when I started it was shoing a bit of a convex base, but now it is a bit flatter. While I was doing this, I was studying the construction, and noticed how small the contact areas between the base and the heatpipes are. It seems to me the absorption could be increased significantly if the heatpipes were soldered to the base (instead of just glued).

So, I was thinking of attempting to do just that...fill in all that dead space with solder. I have very little experiance with soldering and wanted to ask what you though of my idea. What I don't was to happen is for the solder to melt (while the CPU is under load), drip onto other components, and short out/ruin my other HW. But the solder I picked up has a melting point of 180C, and I don't believe I'll ever see those temps durning operation.

I plan to block off the opposite side with Q-tips while I drip solder into the gaping holes. After one side is flush withe the edge of the base, I'll remove the Q-tips, turn the HS over and drip solder into the other side until flush.

Am I crazy? Is this a viable proposal? Should I be worryed about it melting during heavy loads? Will it even help?

Thanks for any input, I hope to try this soon, so please let me know before I do something stupid, thanks!

Blacktales · Post by **Blacktales** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:19 pm

I noticed the same thing and had the same idea before, but filling the whole volume between base and heatpipes won't be easy, for your solder will solidify way before dripping on the other side. So in theory it is a good idea (no way the CPU would melt the solder) but in practice.....

You would be able to somehow fill the gaps at the sides surface but not inside the base itself and the difference in performance that would make would be questionable (and your warranty voided beyond measure). You could improve thing by directly heating the solder dripped on the sides but i would be too afraid to damage the heatsink. And bringing the heatsink to the solder melting point is not advisable either

.

As an alternative, I saw another mod somewhere where a user tried to fill the gaps with thermal paste. He claimed it made a difference but i would doubt even that (the difference he saw was most likely due to lapping the base at the same time IIRC). I never tried that and probably won't but in case you're interested someone here might link to the original article.

ddrueding1 · Post by **ddrueding1** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:37 pm

Pretty much anything conducts heat better than air. Solder or TIM would both be significantly more effective at transferring heat than an air gap.

That said, the better question is whether that contact point is a bottleneck or not. Bluefront was doing a series of tests with a Ninja, and came across a specific "sweet spot" that was difficult to go below. Could this be the limiting factor? No idea.

My biggest concern would be heating the heatpipes to the melting point of the solder.

Best of luck!

miahallen · Post by **miahallen** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:36 am

Blacktales wrote:...filling the whole volume between base and heatpipes won't be easy, for your solder will solidify way before dripping on the other side.

I was wondering about that too, but I thought if I could get big enough drops, and get them hot enough (I have a 60W iron) they might be able to maintain a liquid state long enough to drop halfway through the heatsink's base.

no way the CPU would melt the solder

This was my biggest concern, but based on your opinion, I think I'll give it a shot.

miahallen · Post by **miahallen** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:37 am

ddrueding1 wrote:My biggest concern would be heating the heatpipes to the melting point of the solder.

Copper melts at about 1085C, so I'm not too worried about that.

CyberDog · Post by **CyberDog** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:50 am

Yes but there is liquid inside the pipes. Check this for heating heatpipes. http://www.silentmods.com/section2/item287/part14

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:05 am

Doing that operation with melted solder or lead would be difficult, not impossible. I'd first be temped to use epoxy, maybe "thermal" epoxy if you can find it. It would not require heating, and would stay in a liquid form long enough to fill in all the air gaps/cracks. The idea is to eliminate the little air pockets.....just like the TIM you use.

Now for the real question.....what would you gain in lowered temperatures? Probably not very much, but worth the try.

Go to an auto parts store....you can find stuff called "liquid metal". Might be perfect for this job.

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:32 am

Go to an auto parts store....you can find stuff called "liquid metal". Might be perfect for this job.

important: BF doesn't mean the liquid metal that eats away aluminium.

JoeWPgh · Post by **JoeWPgh** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:33 am

Maybe this?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835100005

Bluefront wrote:Doing that operation with melted solder or lead would be difficult, not impossible. I'd first be temped to use epoxy, maybe "thermal" epoxy if you can find it. It would not require heating, and would stay in a liquid form long enough to fill in all the air gaps/cracks. The idea is to eliminate the little air pockets.....just like the TIM you use.

Now for the real question.....what would you gain in lowered temperatures? Probably not very much, but worth the try.

Go to an auto parts store....you can find stuff called "liquid metal". Might be perfect for this job.

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:53 am

I've seen that Newegg stuff.....comes in two tubes. But it might not be enough to do the whole job. Two would cost >$22.

The liquid metal I'm referring to also comes in two tubes, in a much bigger quantity. The stuff I've used dries a gray color, and looks like aluminum. I've used this to repair aluminum pieces on cars. It's tough.....lasts forever, and can even be drilled and tapped. No it doesn't "eat" aluminum.

Oh....the stuff starts to dry quickly, so you have to be fast. It can be applied in layers.

WR304 · Post by **WR304** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:27 am

Blacktales wrote:As an alternative, I saw another mod somewhere where a user tried to fill the gaps with thermal paste. He claimed it made a difference but i would doubt even that (the difference he saw was most likely due to lapping the base at the same time IIRC). I never tried that and probably won't but in case you're interested someone here might link to the original article.

There's an article here where they filled the gaps on a Scythe Infinity with thermal paste:

http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getart ... rticID=567

I tried the same thing with my Scythe Ninja a while ago. It's seriously difficult just trying to push thermal paste into the gaps between the heatpipes.

It would probably work better in reverse if you were to get a syringe with a long thin nozzle and fill the gaps from the centre out. A hypodermic needle or similar would be perfect for fitting in the narrow gaps I think.

It's not the sort of thing most people have available though.

miahallen · Post by **miahallen** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:10 pm

WR304 wrote:
Blacktales wrote:As an alternative, I saw another mod somewhere where a user tried to fill the gaps with thermal paste. He claimed it made a difference but i would doubt even that (the difference he saw was most likely due to lapping the base at the same time IIRC). I never tried that and probably won't but in case you're interested someone here might link to the original article.
There's an article here where they filled the gaps on a Scythe Infinity with thermal paste:

http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getart ... rticID=567

I tried the same thing with my Scythe Ninja a while ago. It's seriously difficult just trying to push thermal paste into the gaps between the heatpipes.

It would probably work better in reverse if you were to get a syringe with a long thin nozzle and fill the gaps from the centre out. A hypodermic needle or similar would be perfect for fitting in the narrow gaps I think.

It's not the sort of thing most people have available though.

Well....did it work. Did it lower your temps?