SI-128SE x Zipang x Noctua NH-C12P x other down-blowers

Holda · Post by **Holda** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:28 pm

Hi, my computer:
Q6600 G0, GB 965P-DS3, 1950GT with Accelero S1, all in CM Elite 334
Now I have Scythe Ninja+ with TR Bolt-Thru kit, but temperatures in burn are insane.
20mins of OCCT, CPU @3GHz 1,22V real and teperatures 66-68Â°C. VRM and NB is incredibly hot.
So I decided to buy new HS, some down-blower. I wanted Scythe Zipang, but IÂ´m afraid, that it is too big for my case, and will colide with PSU. TR SI-128SE is another option, but IÂ´m not sure, that it will perform better, than Ninja. I also saw Noctua NH-C12P, but is is little bit expensive, yes fan included, but I already have some Nexuses here.
Any suggestions plese?
Thanks

dhanson865 · Post by **dhanson865** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 2:23 pm

I think the Scythe Andy is still the king of the top down coolers at low or medium CFMs.

I have no idea if it will fit or not but it's not as wide as the zipang and it cools better than the zipang at most CFM levels.

Felger Carbon · Post by **Felger Carbon** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 2:50 pm

You didn't mention what fan (if any) you're using on your Ninja. A Slipstream 800 (or a 1200 on a fan controller) might be a cheap fix.

It's interesting that you're thinking of replacing a tower cooler with one of several shelf coolers. There's some really good, inexpensive, tower coolers out there. The Xigmatek S1236(?) is available for $32 several places, for instance. It's been reviewed here at SPCR and lotsa other places, all favorably.

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:03 pm

Since I currently use both the Zipang and the Ninja, I can say this.....If you are having CPU temperature problems with a properly mounted Ninja using it's supplied fan, a Zipang won't help much. It might lower the board temps somewhat, if you use a more powerful fan than that which is supplied with the Zipang.

But it sounds like you have some other problem....

elpibe10 · Post by **elpibe10** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 6:20 pm

I've tried SI-128, SI-128SE, Andy and Noctua NH-C12P and the one with the best performance is the SI-128SE.

It easily beats the Andy by 2 to 3 deg C * and the Noctua by 1 to 2 deg C *

* tested with Scythe Kaze Jyuni 800rpm fan (installed inside a case)

There are a lot of people out there who are confused between SI-128 and SI-128SE. Believe me ... these 2 are completely different beasts !

Welcome to my WiNDy House of Soldam :

http://www.freewebs.com/elpibe10/

dhanson865 · Post by **dhanson865** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 6:33 pm

1. His case exhaust is restrictive, definitely needs to have some metal cut away.
2. The case has a mount for an optional 120mm intake. We have no idea if he put one in
3. His motherboard has passive chipset cooling with no heatpipes.
4. He is overclocking his CPU by 25%
5. We have no idea what ambient temps are in his part of the world or in the room the PC is in.

It's entirely possible he just needs more airflow in the case and/or more airflow on the Ninja.

bgavin · Post by **bgavin** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:39 pm

Holda wrote:VRM and NB is incredibly hot.

I expect this with a side draft cooler, which is why I own three Zipang. AMD and Intel have a very good reason for publishing cooling specs for the VRM. Their cheesy coolers are designed to blow a good breeze on the VRM.

On socket 775, the Zipang does not over hang the mother board. Unless the mother board interferes with your PSU, the Zipang own't either. It will cool your NB and VRM with a sufficient fan. I use the Red Scorpion as a workable compromise between cooling and noise. I find them quiet enough. YMMV.

I do recommend using the TR 775 bolt-through kit with Zipang. It is a HUGE pita to mount them without a special Phillips tool, but it can be done a quarter turn at a time with needle nose. The end result is very sturdy mounting, and low temps.

The 140mm Yate-Loon D14SM-12, 1380 rpm produces this on my IP35 Pro/E8400 at idle:

Ambient 26C (Kodak process thermometer)
CPU 25C (BIOS readings)
SYS 28C
PWM 35C

These are with the 140mm Red Scorpion fan, same conditions

Ambient 25C
CPU 22C
SYS 27C
PWM 33C

It wanders around, but should give you a ball park idea.

Holda · Post by **Holda** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:45 am

well, i have one inteke and outtake Nexus@1000RPM, so airflow should not be a problem.
On Ninja is 2000RPM Nesus, thermal compund is MX-2, mounted with TR Bolt-Thru kit. I tried to install Ninja several times, but without efect. HP at the bottom are cold, but i checked IHS and HS surface, and they are flat.
I donÂ´t know where the problem is, maybe defective Ninja.
Also there is TR HR-05 on NB and S1 is cooled passively.
So you say, that SI-128SE is good solution? Zipang with backplate and screws looks great, but i really afraid, that it will collide with my PSU (S12-430W)
Towers...yes they are great, but i dont know, my mobo will be grateful for some flow on it.
I hope I wrote it understadable

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:15 am

Just how hot is the room where this computer is running? That means a lot when judging temperatures......

Nexus fans@1000rpms don't push much air......they are quiet. That's it.

Defective ninja? Not likely. Most/all Ninja problems are related to the attachment procedures.

Try running with the case open..... if the cpu temperature drops, you are suffering an airflow problem.

Over-clocking? Go back to stock speeds and then check temperatures.

Holda · Post by **Holda** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:42 am

Well my ambient temperature is now in summer 22Â°-25Â°C
At first, I also thought, that problem is with attachement procedure, but after several attempts I give up. MX-2 is uniforlmy spread oh IHS and HS, no gaps.
And lot mens, that I am unable to holt my finger on VRM, capacitors etc longer than one second, sadly my mobo doesnÂ´t support monitoring other temperatures than CPU and I assume NB.
Trick with open case helps a little, but we are speaking about 1-2Â°C difference.
I will try stock, but now I am under default voltage (1.3V) on 1,22V and only clock is higher...
I appreciate all your efforts

//edit: Everything on default, and after 30mins of OCCT 63-60-59-63

bgavin · Post by **bgavin** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:19 am

Holda wrote:Zipang with backplate and screws looks great, but i really afraid, that it will collide with my PSU (S12-430W)

Only if your PSU over hangs the mother board. The Zipang does not extend beyond the mother board edge. It can also be installed in four different rotations to suit your need.

The TR bolt-through kit and back plate does work, but it is a PAIN to install.

Zipang also makes you plan in advance connecting cables to the board. My IP35 Pro board has the 12v connector in the upper left (NE) cornere. This is completely covered and obscured when the Zipang is in place. To mount this board, I have to make sure the 12v connector is plugged in before securing the board. In the Solo case, you have to make sure the PSU is in place before mounting the board. The PSU will never go in after the board w/Zipang is installed.

velvet45 · Post by **velvet45** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 7:14 pm

Bgavin,
I am building a system and looking for a cooler as well. Thinking of a top-down cooler like the Zipang. Will it fit in a P182 case? Can you post some pics of your system with cooler in place?
To anyone.... what is the advantage, other than easier access/convenience to mobo components to a tower type cooler over one of these top down type coolers?

Felger Carbon · Post by **Felger Carbon** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 7:48 pm

velvet45 wrote:...what is the advantage, other than easier access/convenience to mobo components to a tower type cooler over one of these top down type coolers?

There are several advantages. One, the heat from the CPU is blown directly at the exhaust fan by a tower HSF. A shelf-type HSF blows the heat at right angles, and circulates the heat inside the PC case instead of exhausting it directly. On a tower HSF, the HS fan and the exhaust fan aid each other, providing greater airflow for a given noise level. If CPU cooling is what you're after, it's a fact that all the top HSFs (with a given fan and RPM) are tower HSFs. This is because there's no impediment other than the HS fins to airflow on a tower HSF because the air flows in a straight line out of the case. A shelf-type HSF has airflow blocked at both ends (mobo and case side). Very inefficient airflow, so the fan has to work harder and louder.

velvet45 · Post by **velvet45** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:00 pm

Felger,
Thanks for the information. I am still wondering though... if the temps for the newest design top-down coolers are close to the tower types (or within a few deg C) and the mobo components are kept cooler- VRMs, chipsets, and mem modules, then...all theories in air flow aside, does not the added advantages outweigh any small increase in temp experienced inside the case as a result of inefficient air flow?

Felger Carbon · Post by **Felger Carbon** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:29 pm

Velvet:
You have to decide what's important to you. For a given amount of CPU cooling, tower heat sinks deliver that cooling with the least amount of noise.

VRM cooling is an interesting subject. Only overclockers with high power dissipation CPUs stress most mobo VRMs. VRMs by their nature withstand very high temperatures. It's undeniable that a cheap mobo (intended for low-to-medium power CPUs) have their VRMs get really hot with high-power CPUs. There are so many variables that it's hard to provide useful general guidelines.

This is certain: if quiet is your primary objective, use a tower HSF and a low-power CPU with mobo-integrated graphics. Never never overclock.

MoJo · Post by **MoJo** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 4:30 am

To be honest, the temps don't look that bad. Keep in mind that they may improve significantly over time depending on what thermal paste you used. Also, make sure you have enough pressure on the heatsink.

For an overclocked quad core running a stress test like Prime95, under 70C is acceptable I think. In real use, it will never get that hot anyway, unless you like to run Folding@Home or something (which on a quad core costs you a small fortune in electricity).

Lapping might be worth considering. Also check what voltages you are running at - if you left the voltage setting on auto your mobo might have bumped it higher than it needs to be.

On a QX6700 at 3.1GHz on auto voltage running P95 a short peek at 63C was seen. Pushing just 100MHz more to 3.2GHz made the system need a voltage bump and even then it failed P95 after a few hours, temperatures hitting 70C.

bgavin · Post by **bgavin** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:55 am

The Zipang fits into my P182 just fine, on an ABit IP35 Pro board. However, if you go this route, be SURE to connect the ATX12V connector BEFORE mounting the board. The connector is not accessible otherwise, unless you cut out the grille for the top fan on this case. I did this, and committed myself to a non-returnable case.

IMO, the P182 is much better suited as a server case. The door layout sucks. My P182 is on the right side of my desk, so I have to open the door 180 degrees to see the LEDs. The Solo is a more desktop-friendly case. Somewhat. You can remove its door, P182 cannot AFAIK.

As to VRM withstanding very high temps, I have a bin full of dead boards that say otherwise. The MOSFETS survive, the electroylytic caps die. Most older boards have cheap VRM caps, i.e. TEAPO, OST, or quality brands with bad materials i.e. Nichicon-HM. The new ECS boards I see at Fry's use even lower quality electrolytics. Cheap caps die quickly in the heat.

Only select new boards come with solid polymer caps as replacements to electrolytics. However, polymer caps are not immune to heat damage. Heat is the enemy. More heat = shorter life span. Polymer boards are too new, so I've not seen any fatalities yet.

Tower coolers are absolutely more efficient at air flow and heat removal. They are mandatory for 130w Prescotts. The problem here is the 130w Prescott is drawing 2x more power from the VRM. Do you need this cooling with a 63w processor? Not unless you run fanless. Big down drafters such as Zipang, SI128-SE, AXP-140 (coming) etc, also cool the NB and VRM components. Mine run completely cool to the touch at idle. My VRM, NB and SB are heat pipe connected, so all get the benefit of down draft cooling.

The P182 offers dual 120mm fans near the VRM. It would be interesting to see how well the pair cools the VRM with a fanless tower cooler. It should be done with the case covers installed, so a contact-type thermometer is required.

MC FLMJIG · Post by **MC FLMJIG** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:45 am

elpibe10 wrote:I've tried SI-128, SI-128SE, Andy and Noctua NH-C12P and the one with the best performance is the SI-128SE.

It easily beats the Andy by 2 to 3 deg C * and the Noctua by 1 to 2 deg C *

* tested with Scythe Kaze Jyuni 800rpm fan (installed inside a case)

There are a lot of people out there who are confused between SI-128 and SI-128SE. Believe me ... these 2 are completely different beasts !

Welcome to my WiNDy House of Soldam :

http://www.freewebs.com/elpibe10/

I have been looking through all of the SPCR forums but can't find much info on the Si-128SE. I am close to buying one but would like to know if it is good vs some of these other heatsinks. SPCR reviewed the SI-128 and I was turned off by it. But they have not done the SI-128SE.

Edit:
http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getart ... rticID=578

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=43 ... pert&pid=5

They are not SPCR but the reviews were interesting.

ronrem · Post by **ronrem** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 3:17 pm

Seems to me the best config for a table type heatsink is to suck the heat out the side with a big door fan,probably with ducting. Then you'd want to somewhat ration + locate your inlets to get the cool air effectively delivered to the right spot. Starting with a big quad or a Prescott is sort of like tuning a V 10 Viper for gas mileage. If I want a 150 mph car and a 40 mpg car....I'll get 2 cars rather than try to make one be both.

However, some high power rigs can be quieted if not silenced.

I've noticed that Biostar has been going to solid Caps even on some lower price boards and is heatpiping some of those. Nice. For awhile you had to get the high end Gigabyte or Asus with SLI and a lot of overkill to get features that ought to shine in a mid-power silent (AMD) machine

dhanson865 · Post by **dhanson865** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:15 pm

dhanson865 wrote:I think the Scythe Andy is still the king of the top down coolers at low or medium CFMs.

Noctua NH-C12P has surpassed the Andy in SPCR reviews and rankings

NG-C12P gets an 8.0 vs the Andy getting a 7.5.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article30-page1.html
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article846-page1.html

thejamppa · Post by **thejamppa** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 6:49 am

I really wish SPCR would get SI-128 SE. It may look same with some cosmetic changes but what I've read from the net they're completely different. I've been using my Silent Edition for almost a year and I am very happy with my cooler.

Orignal SI-128 didn't do that well in SPCR tests as it would have required faster fans more high impedance air flow... Maybe that part is true with SE, but peoples say its performance was very close to TRUE, some said that in their tests SE beated TRUE...

I know True is good, better than Ninja Rev B with fan in my own experience but it would be intresting to see how well it goes todays champions.

SI-128SE x Zipang x Noctua NH-C12P x other down-blowers

SI-128SE x Zipang x Noctua NH-C12P x other down-blowers

Re: SI-128SE x Zipang x Noctua NH-C12P x other down-blowers