Danamics...

Cooling Processors quietly

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walle
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Danamics...

Post by walle » Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:19 am


jaganath
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Post by jaganath » Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:33 am

very interesting for SPCR (supp. silent). the liquid metal is probably a gallium compound, won't be cheap!

walle
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Post by walle » Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:44 pm

Thought more people would find this product interesting.

anyway…

I recon your spot on there jaganath when saying that this will be all but an el cheapo cooler ! but, it might just be worth the plunch if it actually would perform as Danamics seem to state.


Added:

Missed the most obvious one I guess, its height, could become a problem.

Cistron
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Post by Cistron » Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:30 pm

This probably won't perform that much better than normal heatpipes. Liquid metal is not likely to undergo a phase change to gaseous, such as water does in the normal under-pressurised heatpipes. Water has the highest warmth capcity and enthalpy of vaporisation, therefore absorbs a lot of energy during the phase-change. The only big advantage is the higher density and consequently a swifter warmth transport to the circulating medium.

thejamppa
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Post by thejamppa » Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:09 am

Its still very intresting thing. Electromagnetic pump and all. It probably be even more expensive than TR IFX-14... Depending how well it perform, price tag might have good basis but it should clearly beat most effective air coolers and some water cooling system if its price is like 90€'s or more..

liquid metal, electromagnetic pump.. doesn't sound budget cooler by a longshot...

matcote
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Post by matcote » Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:56 am

For the electromagnetic pump I found something that is very interresting.

http://www.novamaxindustrial.com/docs/E ... r%20NX.pdf

This is an existing electromagnetic pump thats have the capacities for computer cooling. Thats to give to the SPCR community an idea of the cooling capacities of this kind of system.

The metal liquid can be: lithium, sodium, potassium, or sodium-potassium alloys are pumped. Other metallic and nonmetallic liquids of sufficiently high electrical conductivity, such as mercury or molten aluminum, lead, and bismuth can be used.

This kind of thechnology is used on nuclear cooling application.

jaganath
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Post by jaganath » Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:07 am

The metal liquid can be: lithium, sodium, potassium, or sodium-potassium alloys are pumped
the melting point of all of these are too high for PC cooling application. fine for nuclear reactors, because operating temps are much higher.

Cistron
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Post by Cistron » Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:20 am

Lithium, sodium and potassium alloys? You do realise that these things blow up in contact with water or oxygen? Especially a sodium/potassium eutectikum is ... well ... veeeeeeeery anal to handle.

Are they really used in nuclear reactors?

edit: also, those compounds are not magnetic.

jaganath
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Post by jaganath » Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:53 am

Cistron wrote:Lithium, sodium and potassium alloys? You do realise that these things blow up in contact with water or oxygen? Especially a sodium/potassium eutectikum is ... well ... veeeeeeeery anal to handle.

Are they really used in nuclear reactors?
technically they don't blow up (detonation), they catch fire (deflagration).

http://www.igcar.ernet.in/igc2004/sg/sodiumfire.htm

mostly it has only been used in experimental reactors:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superphenix
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LMFBR

Cistron
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Post by Cistron » Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:10 pm

might be http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galinstan
Though I'm not sure how this would be moved by an electromagnetic pump.

Vicotnik
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Post by Vicotnik » Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:27 pm

It doesn't look very interesting to me. Copper base, heatpipes and aluminium fins does the job pretty well at a decent cost. Danamics will have a niche product I think, aimed at extreme overclockers with money to spend.

frostedflakes
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Post by frostedflakes » Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:58 pm

Very interesting, I can't wait for somebody to review it. I'm curious as to how well it performs.

wojtek
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Post by wojtek » Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:18 pm

Nice idea, but.... In late 1970's and 1980's Soviet Union operated a number of nuclear submarines with reactor cooled by liquid metal. This construction has one important downside - they had to keep cooling system hot when reactor was off because temperature of the coolant should not drop below certain level. Interesting, how they solve this problem in this case.

Sorry about poor English
Wojtek

blackworx
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Post by blackworx » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:50 am

Regardless of all the liquid metal and electromagnetic pump handwavium, the heat still has to get off the fins and into the surrounding air. Assuming that's the least efficient interface in the chain, surely the overall efficiency isn't going to differ much from a standard heatpipe design of similar proportions anyway? Or am I missing something?

NyteOwl
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Post by NyteOwl » Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:19 pm

An excellent solid TIM used in the 1970's and early 80's with metal-ceramic vacuum tubes to transfer heat to an external heatsink rather than use forced air was to use a small plate of beryllium between the bodt of the tube and the aluminum heatsink. Unfortuantely beryllium is a bit brittle (about like ceramic floor tile and the dust is highly toxic.

Just think though - if it can suck the heat away from a rf amplifier tube generating 1kw of rf energy what it could do for overclocking :)

ekerazha
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Post by ekerazha » Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:03 am

Danamics LM10 has been released today: http://danamics.com

Price is about €280 (about $360), not really cheap.

m^2
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Post by m^2 » Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:33 am

The metal in the pipes is NaK.
Source.

echn111
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Post by echn111 » Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:07 pm

Anyone find any reviews of this thing? It sounds interesting, but would like to know if it actually delivers.

m^2
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Post by m^2 » Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:30 am

echn111 wrote:Anyone find any reviews of this thing? It sounds interesting, but would like to know if it actually delivers.
I'm pretty sure there's nothing yet.
NordicHardware got a sample and is going to review it soon.

thejamppa
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Post by thejamppa » Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:27 am

retialing price of 280 - 295€'s + 100 €'s PowerBooster... its expensive... Its almost more expensive than my main system...

400€'s and you probably have to buy separate fan. If you buy that thing, I certainly hope Danamic's will at least send you a christmas card for that price...

echn111
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Post by echn111 » Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:40 pm

As previously mentioned, it does look like the heat "somehow" needs to get off the fins, liquid metal or no liquid metal. So it may not be as effective as even full watercooling much less a TEC or similar. I'm hoping to be wrong however...

But even if it's "almost" as good as proper watercooling with the convenience of air and more quiet than both (i.e. no active pump), then might still be worth a look. Except for that price...

Looking forward to that review from NordicHardware!

m^2
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Post by m^2 » Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:28 am

echn111 wrote:As previously mentioned, it does look like the heat "somehow" needs to get off the fins, liquid metal or no liquid metal. So it may not be as effective as even full watercooling much less a TEC or similar. I'm hoping to be wrong however...

But even if it's "almost" as good as proper watercooling with the convenience of air and more quiet than both (i.e. no active pump), then might still be worth a look. Except for that price...

Looking forward to that review from NordicHardware!
Look at heat dissipation area..it stands no chance when compared to PA120.3 with a good block even if metal works better than water and electromagnetic pump adds much less heat to the loop.

It's compact, foolproof and almost maintenance free though.

echn111
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Post by echn111 » Sat Nov 22, 2008 4:30 am

Yes - it certainly looks like it will not compare well against a PA120.3. Maybe we're missing something though. I still hope I'm wrong as I like new technology and innovation. But it's still got to be worth it.

m^2
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Post by m^2 » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:49 pm

Review.
Worse than TRUE.

wojtek
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Post by wojtek » Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:26 pm

Fortunately we don’t have free water inside our PCs and you will never hear a story of how a PC got damaged when the pipes of an LM10 started leaking. Unfortunately this means that the cooler will not be available in the USA, but only inside the European Union.
Some regulations? Somebody from US may explain this sentence?

m^2
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Post by m^2 » Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:07 am

I don't understand this sentence either, but I've heard that NaK can't be used in the US as it's explosive.

Bakkone
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Post by Bakkone » Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:01 am

Wow... that really sucks. I was really looking forward to this one...

CyberDog
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Post by CyberDog » Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:22 am

Do you guys and gals think that there is something funny on those charts? Look the temps or TRUE...

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