idle over 50c, harmful?

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SilenceOfTheFans
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idle over 50c, harmful?

Post by SilenceOfTheFans » Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:22 pm

i was thinking about buying a used shuttle until i heard that it had been running at over 50c idle (who knows what at load) for the last 2 years.. its an xp3200+, do you think it could have harmed it? would it be best to avoid it?
Thanks

ntavlas
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Post by ntavlas » Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:01 pm

I assume it was the cpu that was idling at that temperature. I don`t think it`s harmfull, even in the long term. Many systems are idling at that temp (especially laptops) yet we don`t hear of many cpu failures. I might worry about other components in a low airflow system if the ambient temperature was high though.

What kind of gpu is that system using?

tehcrazybob
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Post by tehcrazybob » Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:39 pm

Computer components can take some terrifyingly high temperatures. My laptop, for instance, idles at 50-60°C and loads well into the 70's, and has been rock-stable for almost five years. In general, if the component is hot enough to cause any damage, the computer will also be extremely unstable. The only time I've heard of a stable computer frying, it was a totally fanless system and one of the voltage regulators exploded; the processor was still just fine.

weboweb
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Post by weboweb » Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:38 pm

I have that CPU, those temperatures are normal.

It's a horrible CPU and will heat up a room in no time without a window open. Right now, I have my PSU fan and an 80mm fan at full speed as an exhaust, with another 80mm fan wedged into two open 5.25" bays with cardboard sucking air in. Current idle temp is 54 degrees, normally 60 without the ghetto intake modification. I've seen it get up to 70ish after a game of Crysis.

When I first got this system the whiz that put it together used an abnormally small heatsink. The CPU fried itself after a game of Battlefield 1942, I think the temperature was at about 75 when that happened.

If you live in a warm climate you'll need to underclock it to avoid heating up your home. Doesn't undervolt without cutting up the traces (based on my own research - nobody's tried it yet afaik).

So yes those temps are fine for the CPU. Just check to see if it's baked any of the surrounding capacitors.

Edit: Forgot to mention, if you get S2KCTL from http://www.stargaz0r.nm.ru/, it will drop system temperature about 5 to 10 degrees. Underclocking to about 1GHz through the clock multiplier brings temperatures down to the 43ish range.

jessekopelman
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Post by jessekopelman » Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:56 pm

50C idle is fine.

Just a note on all those using mobile CPU temps for comparison, though -- don't! Mobile CPU are rated for much higher temperatures than desktop parts. This is one of the reasons they cost so much more money.

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Post by thejamppa » Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:45 am

Considering your CPU is last generation of Socket A's, the best Barton with around 70W's TDP ( my old 3000+ Barton with FSB 333 had 72,5 W TDP and higher TDP rated than my brothers 3000+ Barton with FSB 400 )

Socket A CPU's don't C'n'Q, so they run hot "all the time" without throttling down like modern CPU's. My barton was Idled around 51 - 54 degree's with heavy heatpipe cooler and 92mm fan. It was rock solid years. For socket A's 50 degree's or over Idle temperatures are pretty common. You have nothing to worry about.
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Post by teejay » Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:21 am

You can manually underclock the CPU from Windows to throttle down for normal desktop use (I used ClockGen for this on my old file server). My Barton idled around 45C with a Zalman 7000 in a well-ventilated case and has run for ~4 years, 24x7 without fail. Under (occasional) load it ran up to 62C. Re-applying TIM is a good idea if you decide to get this little machine.

From my experience with Shuttle machines from that generation, a visual inspection of the on-board capacitators is probably a good idea (check for bulges/leakage).
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tehcrazybob
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Post by tehcrazybob » Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:36 am

jessekopelman wrote:Just a note on all those using mobile CPU temps for comparison, though -- don't! Mobile CPU are rated for much higher temperatures than desktop parts. This is one of the reasons they cost so much more money.
Safe temperature on a Barton 3200+ is 85°C, not far below the threshold for many laptop chips. Thermal design power is 76.8 watts, and back then those numbers didn't cover a whole range; the processor may very well pump out that much heat. I suppose you could experiment with undervolting if you'd like to cool things down for your own purposes, but as long as the computer is stable, the chip hasn't been damaged by its past.

SilenceOfTheFans
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Post by SilenceOfTheFans » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:02 pm

do you think the xp3200 with fanless 6600 and 1gb ram would use half as much power as a 6000x2 with 8800gts and 2gb ram? if so the system would pay for itself in a year

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Post by jhhoffma » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:39 pm

My WHS is running a 2500+ right now, that used to be OC'd to 3200+. It idles at 50-51C. You can probably bring it down a little by using S2kCtl to disconnect the bus when not in use. That will maybe give you a few C, depending on your setup. I have 5 HDDs in my WHS case, so there's not much else to do as far as cooling goes. You can also use 8rdavcore to lower your Vcore even farther than the mobo allows to reduce temps a little.

I was a good CPU for it's time (remember the days of the P4?), and definitely not a "horrible CPU" as someone called it. When undervolted/underclocked it's still capable of performing most tasks that could be asked of it. My setup used to be in my HTPC, but was not capable of decoding h264 video at resolutions higher than 720p.

I'm all for reusing old systems, and depending on what you want to do with it, it might be fine. But if it were my money and I were doing anything like modern gaming or media, I'd save my money and buy a newer system.
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ntavlas
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Post by ntavlas » Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:12 pm

I forgot to mention something relevant. Bartons have an on die temp sensor which should give you the most reliable reading. Here is what happened to me: my barton was running quite hot (80 degrees @ load) due to a badly mounted heatsink but the motherboard sensor reported only 63. Reseating the heatsink dropped my temperature by more than 20 degrees, in spite of that the motherboard reading barely changed.

So, you might want to look into it.

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Post by pony-tail » Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:58 pm

With a Shuttle the I.C.E. fan spins down at idle and speeds up as the CPU temp increases becoming very loud at full speed . It has been quite a while since I had a socket 462 machine but mine was a Shuttle SN45-G it had an idle temp of 45c and load temp of 55 -60c but it was a 400fsb 3000+ not a 3200+ . I gave it to my youngest daughter because the noise was abysmal but it was a good stable machine . It is possible too that the ICE has become clogged over time and is making it run a bit toasty . I really like the idea of the Shuttles (small is good ) But with upper end CPUs and Graphics cards they get hot and noisy . That said I still use an SN25p as a lug around / lan / club box .
If it is an SN42 - G2 or even an SN45 - G they are now a little old and a little slow so I would not be paying a lot for it - unless it is cheap there are better options .
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