Want a passive cooling solution

Listener · Post by **Listener** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:59 pm

I built a PC dedicated to playing music with the following:

Antec Solo case with stock Tri-cool fan on low
Seasonic S 12 II 380 W power supply
Intel E6300 Core 2 Duo CPU (Retail Box) with stock heatsink/fan
(CPU running at std. speed and voltage)
I replaced the pushpins with a bolt-through mounting.

Intel D945GCNL motherboard (integrated graphics)
2 X 1 GB RAM

1 Seagate 500 GB hard drive (SATA)
1 Western Digital 1 TB Green Power hard drive (SATA)
The hard drives are mounted on the Solo's pull-out trays with
soft grommets.

1 AudioTrak Prodigy HD2 PCI soundcard
1 ESI Juli@ PCI soundcard

1 Lite-on DVD drive (SATA)

EDIT: I've had most of this system in place for many months. I know how the Seagate and Western Digital drivees sound and the Tri-Cool fan and the CPU fan.

This PC is reasonably quiet but not silent. I'd like to reduce the noise level somewhat. The CPU heatsink/fan seems the place to start.

EDIT: I do not intend to go completely passive.

I'd like to try a bigger heatsink without a fan. The Ninja Mini gets mentioned so I have a couple of questions.

Q1. How much margin will there be if I'm not using a heatsink fan?

Q2. How easy is it to attach a bolt-through kit to the Ninja Mini? Is the Scythe kit the one to use or a kit from a different company? I noticed that newegg.com has not had the kit in stock in recent weeks.

Q3. Are there alternatives to the Ninja Mini that I should consider? (I don't want a 150-160 mm high heatsink.)

I'd appreciate hearing your experiences or knowledge.

Bill

LodeHacker · Post by **LodeHacker** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:14 am

I have some recommendations, but can't answer to your quesitons as I have no experience with the Scythe CPU coolers. First, I have the Core 2 Duo E6300 as well and till now I have always cooled it with a good full copper heatsink and a very low speed fan. Going totally passive with the E6300 is not impossible, it will just idle at around 50C versus 35~40C using a very low speed fan.

Anyway, why on Earth do you have both the Juli@ and the Prodigy? I've never seen someone need two *professional quality* sound cards for just playing music! Either you are doing something very unusual or special, or the PC is not only for the task you mentioned (any chance of this being a DAW PC?)

Also, I recommend to ditch out that 1TB dive and make it somehow external using a separate enclosure or something, because if you're going all passive you must make sure there is not too much heat inside the case, otherwise you'll fry your CPU after a few long audio listening sessions.

Have you ever considered to change the TriCool to a better solution with higher CFM but still lower noise levels? Here are a lot of experts who know a lot about TriCools. They (TriCools) aren't so bad, but even at LOW they are making noise plus they aren't as effective as some other good fans out there (yes I had a frustrating experience with the Antec Three Hundred which had TriCools as well).

- LodeHacker

jessekopelman · Post by **jessekopelman** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:15 am

Listener wrote: 1 Seagate 500 GB hard drive (SATA)
1 Western Digital 1 TB Green Power hard drive (SATA)

2 hard drives, especially if one of them is a Seagate are going to be far noisier than a slow fan. You should figure out how you are going deal with that noise before you worry about going passive for CPU cooling.

Now, the Intel CPU fan is crappy sounding, but with PWM control it should be possible to get it quieter than your drives and still keep the CPU cool enough at low loads (music playing should be low load). If your BIOS isn't letting you get the speed low enough, try Speedfan.

Listener · Post by **Listener** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 4:21 pm

<Lodehacker>
> Anyway, why on Earth do you have both the Juli@ and the Prodigy?
> I've never seen someone need two *professional quality* sound cards
> for just playing music!

Pretty simple actually. I play music in more than one room from this PC.

> Have you ever considered to change the TriCool to a better solution
> with higher CFM but still lower noise levels?

I have considered it. The CPU heatsink fan appears to be louder in my system.

> because if you're going all passive

My thread title may have misled you. I'm only replacing the heatsink and fan. There will still be a 120 mm case fan and the power supply has a fan. The case fan will be pulling air through the CPU heatsink.

> Also, I recommend to ditch out that 1TB dive and make it somehow
> external using a separate enclosure or something

I have plenty of experience with external drive and don't see that as a win on noise.

<jessekopelman>
> 2 hard drives, especially if one of them is a Seagate are going to be far
> noisier than a slow fan.

I'd had the Seagate for 2 years. The Western Digital drive replaced another 500 GB Seagate. I needed more storage space for music. I don't intend to get rid of either drive. I have done what I intend to do to make them quiet.

>Now, the Intel CPU fan is crappy sounding, but with PWM control it
> should be possible to get it quieter than your drives

Well, I'm listening to my actual system. Based on that listening, I think the CPU fan is not quieter than the drives.
----
I asked specifically for advice on a heatsink I can use without a fan. I'm still hoping to get the benefit of someone's actual experience with a fanless heatsink solution.

Bill

maf718 · Post by **maf718** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:58 am

Q1 It's certainly do-able with a Ninja Mini in a Solo, I have seen many such systems. Your margin will depend on usage patterns and ambient temperature, but playing music is not stressful on the cpu so you should be fine. (Fwiw I run a passive cpu cooler in a Solo, but it is considerably larger than a minja)

Q2 Pass

Q3 Having ruled out anything 150-160 mm high you have ruled out most of the alternatives to the Ninja Mini that are ok passive. Thermalright has recently released some lower height versions of the HR-01. They *should* be fine for your needs but it's probably a bit soon to get any feedback from someone who's used one. Also the released versions come with mounting kit fot Xeon processors so you would need confirmation that they can be converted with Thermalright's 775 bolt-thru kit.

Hope that helps in some small way

LodeHacker · Post by **LodeHacker** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:58 am

Listener wrote:Pretty simple actually. I play music in more than one room from this PC.

Please explain your setup... maybe via PM or in my sound cards thread in System Advice section. Thanks!

Listener · Post by **Listener** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:04 am

Thanks, maf718. Good info and very relevant.

> Your margin will depend on usage patterns and ambient temperature,

The case fan will be fairly close to the heeatsink so it should pull s0ome air through the heatsink, shouldn't it?

Task manager shows a steady %1 CPU utilization for playing standard 44.1 KHz 16 Flac files without upsampling or any other processing.

When I'm using the UI in the J.River media center 12 player, CPU utilization is 1 - 2% almost all the time.

> (Fwiw I run a passive cpu cooler in a Solo, but it is considerably larger
> than a minja)

I didn't realize that taller heatsinks would fit in a Solo case. What other alternatives should I consider?

What is your cooler?

What CPU and clock speed is in the computer?

Bill

maf718 · Post by **maf718** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:08 pm

Hi, yeah the case fan and PSU fan will pull plenty of air through a decent heatsink in a Solo. Especially if you're only listening to music at 1-2% cpu usage. My cpu cores run at 30Â°C when listening to music and surfing the web. That's with an Intel E2140 overclocked to 2.8GHz and the cooler is a Thermalright IFX-14. This heatsink is very large and a very tight fit in a Solo so I wouldn't recommend it (unconditionally) because if your cpu socket is shifted on the motherboard by 1cm+ compared to mine it wouldn't fit.

(You didn't mention where you come from, but I'm assuming it's not an extremely hot country, else using a passive heatsink could cause problems.)

A Thermalright HR-01 plus would be the ideal/best choice for your situation if you are willing to spend $50 or so. It is designed for passive cooling, is highly recommended by SPCR, comes with a bolt-thru kit and despite being tall would easily fit in a Solo. SPCR review. As I'm sure you are aware the possible major obstacle to a heatsink in the Solo is the crossbar below the PSU. With most ~160mm coolers the heatpipe ends/nipples are the only parts as high as this so it shouldn't be a problem.

If you don't want to spend as much then a Xigmatek S1283 is a cheaper alternative and would probably be enough, and to be honest if your maximum cpu usage is going to be 2% almost any large tower heatsink would suit your needs.

Listener · Post by **Listener** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:51 pm

maf718, thanks for the very thorough answer.

Since I strongly dislike the standard Intel push-pin arrangement, I'd want a bolt-through kit for the Xigmatek. So hte price difference would not be large.

I noticed that newegg.com has discontinued the HR-01 PLUS and carried a model specific to Socket 775 with push-pins.

FrozenCPU.com has the HR-01 PLUS for $ 55.

Thanks again.

Bill

maf718 · Post by **maf718** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:42 pm

No problem. I am sure you will be pleased with this cooler.

alleycat · Post by **alleycat** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:45 pm

I prefer the Ninja for its omnidirectional design and widely-spaced fins. It can best take advantage of the fan arrangement in your system. This project may be of interest to you.

Want a passive cooling solution

Want a passive cooling solution

Re: Want a passive cooling solution