CPU Cooling in a SFF case

[Grump]

I am putting together a system in a AeroCool M40 case. It's not the smallest SFF case, but it does have a hinged upper half that limits the height of a CPU cooler, unless the user is willing to cut a hole in the second floor.

Click pic for full-size.


My choice is to go with a decent P55 motherboard with a i5 750 CPU. I'm not a gamer, but I do graphics and image editing, as well as using MS Office Professional. So, I expect my needs for really high performance cooling are not as much as a gamer. But given the small size and restrictive air flow of the case, I still need a fan on the cooler. But it has to be low profile in order to fit without cutting the floor of the case half above it - I think that would not be all that effective anyway.

My case fans are Noctua, so I thought a good solution might be the NH-C12P SE14. Since one of the most important criteria for this build is silence, but being a SFF case, it also needs something that will promote good air flow, maybe the Noctua cooler would meet those needs.

Your opinions and suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Grump

[ces]

Are you sure an NH-C12P SE14 is going to fit? Even if it does you should have one fan width of space above it. That would be another 25mm.

Probably the best you can do is a Big Shurekin. Get the special mounting kit for it so you don't have to rely on the push pins.

See:
http://www.frostytech.com/top5_lowprofile_heatsinks.cfm

[Grump]

The distance from motherboard mounting plate is 130mm. Subtract the thickness of the motherboard PCB and the stand-offs and there's 122mm. The Noctua is 114mm high, which leaves only 8mm, but that also doesn't take into account the CPU mount thickness. I wouldn't even know how much to guess that thickness is.

It looks like I would have to cut a hole in the floor of the top half of my case to make this work.

The Big Shuriken has plenty of height clearance, being only 58mm tall, add a little more height to that if you use a standard thickness 120mm CPU fan (that would make it 70mm). But the most oft reported problem with the cooler is it blocks RAM slots, or at the least, requires low profile RAM. That further limits the options.

Boy, this is a tough one. There just doesn't seem to be a lot of options for quiet and low profile. I haven't settled on the motherboard yet, but even if I did, the measurements between components is usually not reported. Some of the boards I have looked at seem to have pretty good clearance around the CPU socket. One I like is the Gigabyte GA-P55M-UD4, but that looks pretty close to the DIMMs too.

I wonder if maybe I would be better off just cutting a hole in the floor of the top half of this case. There's nothing above the CPU area. The top half is where the optical drive and hard drive are mounted, but both are at the front of the case.



Thanks,

Grump

[BlackWhizz]

Maybe you can create a 120mm fan mount somewhere and use a Corsair h50?

[Grump]

Sorry, liquid cooling is not something I'm comfortable using. I do appreciate the suggestion though.

Grump

[BlackWhizz]

Sorry, liquid cooling is not something I'm comfortable using. I do appreciate the suggestion though.

Grump

Not to disrespect your opinion but the H50 is a sealed system and tested by Corsair for leaks? Why would you be unconfortable with that?

Also corsair probably would use a non-conductive liquid?

[Grump]

Not to disrespect your opinion but the H50 is a sealed system and tested by Corsair for leaks? Why would you be unconfortable with that?

Also corsair probably would use a non-conductive liquid?

I understand you meant no disrespect and none is taken. I did a little research on the Corsair H50 and found no information regarding the fluid they use. I would imagine the use of a non-conductive liquid would warrant a mention as an additional selling point. Or maybe non-conductive liquids are the norm now? I still worry about it and I don't need anything more to lose sleep over.

The Corsair H50 appears to be an excellent choice for a gaming or overclocked machine. Mine will be neither. Although I will have some better than average components, my use is only moderately high in terms of heat generation. My biggest concern is to have adequate cooling and optimum silence.

The H50's stock fan is noisier than I would want, at nearly 30 dB(A). I realize I can swap that out for a much quieter Noctua, but then the fan isn't the only source of noise. I couldn't find any numbers on the pump noise, but several people said it was noticeable and I found a few YouTube videos that bore this fact out.

Finally, without some major modifications, this case can't fit the 120mm radiator and fan combo. There is only one 120mm fan location - in the front of the case:

Click for full-size.


That fan also has its own restrictions that will be addressed through some judicial modding, but it's primary goal is to supply air flow to the passively cooled video card I am considering.

So, even if I didn't have reservations about liquid cooling, the Corsair cooler has significant challenges to overcome for use in a SFF case.

Thank you,

Grump

[BlackWhizz]

Then that noctua cooler wil be ok. Just cut out the grill above the cpu cooler so it can get a little more air.

[Grump]

I cut as much metal out above the CPU area of the case as I dare. The opening is only 97mm wide - not big enough for a tight fit of the Noctua NH-C12P SE14. There is a possibility that cooler/fan combo would touch the bottom of the floor above it, if not extend slightly beyond it - in that case, it difinitely wouldn't work.



The Big Shurekin limits the height of RAM. I did, however, find a CPU cooler on that list ces provided (thank you again) that may be a good solution: Scythe "ZIPANG-2" 6Heat Pipes CPU Cooler. The height of this cooler, 106mm, should allow plenty of room.

My question now is, can I reduce the noise by swapping out the fan on that cooler for the Noctua NF-P14 FLX? I realize the ZIPANG-2 is considered a quiet cooler, but the fan whispers at about 23 - 29 dB(A) when it's going 1000 rpm, depending on what review you read (I didn't see one here that I remember). I understand that can be quieted by connecting it to the PWM fan header.

The Noctua fan claims to run at less than 20 dB(A) at 1200 rpm - about 13 dB(A) at 900 rpm and 10 at 750. It seems like that fan is quieter than the fan on the ZIPANG-2, is the same size and shape and no doubt could be set up on the PWM header too.

Do I have these stats right? Will I have a quieter CPU cooler if I use the ZIPANG-2 heat sink and the Noctua fan?

[ces]

Do I have these stats right? Will I have a quieter CPU cooler if I use the ZIPANG-2 heat sink and the Noctua fan?

That isn't knowable without testing. They are both good fans. You can't compare different reviews from different reviewers. You just need to test both.

[BlackWhizz]

Did you take a look at this site? FrostyTech Top5 Low Profile heatsinks

[quest_for_silence]

The Noctua fan claims to run at less than 20 dB(A) at 1200 rpm - about 13 dB(A) at 900 rpm and 10 at 750. It seems like that fan is quieter than the fan on the ZIPANG-2, is the same size and shape and no doubt could be set up on the PWM header too.

Do I have these stats right? Will I have a quieter CPU cooler if I use the ZIPANG-2 heat sink and the Noctua fan?

AFAIK the Noctua is not a 4pin PWM one, but anyway, both fans have been tested by SPCR, and it doesn't seem to me that the Noctua is any quieter (rpm per rpm, or V per V).

Noctua NF-P14

Scythe Kaze Maru

Please take into account that the ability to run a fan quieter is more probably that not due to the specific motherboard PWM circuit.

Regards,
Luca

[Grump]

The Zipang2 arrived on my doorstep today. I was worried it wouldn't fit under the floor of the second story of this AeroCool M40 case. All the literature said the cooler was about 105mm tall. It was actually only 100mm tall (measured from mounting surface to top of the fan housing). The top clearance was close, but it fit fine.

Unfortunately, there was another dimension I hadn't considered. Comes with having my first SFF case and mATX motherboard, I guess.


Click above images for full-size.

There's not enough room to have a video card in the first PCIe slot. I could use this cooler and put my video card in the second PCIe slot, but that PCI Express 16 slot runs at x8 (PCIEX8), as opposed to the first PCI Express 16 that runs at x16 (PCIEX16). Granted, I don't know much about that technology, but I'm pretty sure that means my video card (hoping for a PowerColor SCS3 HD5750 1GB GDDR5) won't operate at peak performance or full power... or whatever.

It looks like even a 120mm CPU cooler might be too big. I have a feeling I will have to settle on a 92mm cooler. Even some of them are too tall though. There is one that has a unique design that might work. I haven't been able to see a picture of it mounted on a motherboard, but I think it can be turned in any of 4 directions. I'm talking about the Nexus FLC-3000:



If it can be turned, I think the top of it would fit through the opening I cut in the second level floor of the case. The cooler is reported to be 119mm tall, which is almost 20mm taller than the Zipang - and I doubt there was 20mm clearance between the top of it and the underside of the second level. Maybe half that, but prob'ly less.

I'm open to ideas. I should be able to return this Zipang to Performance PCs and they have the FLC-3000. If that's not a good choice, I will just get my CPU (i5 750) from them and get a cooler somewhere else. I'm even wondering if the cooler that comes with the CPU might be alright.

Thanks for any additional input, you guys. I appreciate the support so far.

Grump

[lodestar]

....PCI Express 16 slot runs at x8 (PCIEX8), as opposed to the first PCI Express 16 that runs at x16 (PCIEX16). Granted, I don't know much about that technology, but I'm pretty sure that means my video card (hoping for a PowerColor SCS3 HD5750 1GB GDDR5) won't operate at peak performance or full power... or whatever.

I assume you bought the Gigabyte GA-P55M-UD4 which as you say has two x16 PCI-E slots, with one limited to x8. The reason for the two slots is so that two graphics cards can be fitted, running in either CrossFire or SLI. If two cards are fitted, both run at x8 as they share the x16 bandwith between them. This is a limitation of the P55 chipset. So your board allows one graphics card at x16, two at x8, or one at x8. In fact x8 or x16 is not a fixed speed, it means up to a maximum of x8 etc. I suspect that this theoretical maximum is not going to restrain performance for cards like the 5750 and if running two 5750 cards at x8 on P55 boards was actually having an impact on performance I am sure we would have heard about it by now. So I think you can be sure it will not affect a single card in the x8 slot.

[Grump]

I assume you bought the Gigabyte GA-P55M-UD4...

Yes, I did. Looks like a nice board, but it sure is compact.

So your board allows one graphics card at x16, two at x8, or one at x8. In fact x8 or x16 is not a fixed speed, it means up to a maxium of x8 etc. I suspect that this theoretical maximum is not going to restrain performance for cards like the 5750 and if running two 5750 cards at x8 on P55 boards was actually having an impact on performance I am sure we would have heard about it by now. So I think you can be sure it will no effect on a single card in the x8 slot.

Except that the card won't be able to reach its maximum performance at x8, right? I mean, if there is a limitation in the x8 slot that is half of whatever the x16 slot is, it won't be the same. Sorry, I don't understand the technology much. I just don't want to sacrifice any of the video card's power just to use a CPU cooler that's too big for the computer.

Thanks,

Grump

[quest_for_silence]

Except that the card won't be able to reach its maximum performance at x8, right?

I guess the difference would be almost literally unnoticeable (even while using benchmarking software).

See: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/ ... ng/25.html.

Regards,
Luca

[Grump]

That's interesting, thanks. Looks like this may be just a matter of whether I want to give up the only standard PCI slot (the vid card is a double-wide). Thanks for the info.

Grump