New here. Trying to construct a build.

Cooling Processors quietly

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dusky
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New here. Trying to construct a build.

Post by dusky » Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:19 pm

Hey I'm real new around here and finding the amount of information rather mind-boggling. I'm really looking forward to getting another desktop after 3 years with a laptop. I'm looking at building a fairly basic little machine to do some recording with. I need some suggestions re an AM3 motherboard with onboard video & firewire and a cheap, but not too cheap, CPU cooler. Here's what I was thinking so far:

CPU: AMD AM3 Athlon II X2 240e
RAM: Kingston 4GB DDR3-1333
HDD: Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB
Case: Antec Solo $112 (remove the stock rear exhaust fan, replace with a Nexus 120)
PSU: Antec Neo Eco 450C $59 (of course i'd like to put in a Seasonic X-400 Fanless Gold 400W, but I'd need a fair bit more gold for that!)

+ A motherboard. I was considering the Gigabyte GA-880GM-UD2H mATX, although it's not in stock around these parts for another month, so I'm open to some suggestions.

+ A CPU cooler. I was considering the Scythe Ninja 3 CPU Cooler.

Fire-Flare
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Re: New here. Trying to construct a build.

Post by Fire-Flare » Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:43 pm

I'd get Scythe's Mugen 2 cooler. It runs a few degrees cooler than the Ninja 3 and adding a low RPM fan on the back makes the primary fan have to work even less.

I'm using two Scythe Slip Stream fans at a dead silent 675 RPM, where they keep my AM3 6-core processor idling at room temperature.
My build: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=69018

Swiftech MCP35X review: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=65287

quest_for_silence
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Re: New here. Trying to construct a build.

Post by quest_for_silence » Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:11 pm

dusky wrote:HDD: Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB

IMO you shouldn't go for a 7200rpm drive, it's pratically pointless for a basic machine.
A WD Green is noticeably quieter, an F4 EG should be also better, even if the Solo would help a lot.
dusky wrote:PSU: Antec Neo Eco 450C $59

Enermax ECO80-II 400W.
dusky wrote:+ A motherboard. I was considering the Gigabyte GA-880GM-UD2H mATX, although it's not in stock around these parts for another month, so I'm open to some suggestions.

ASUS or MSI, forget those Gigabytes: you need a mobo with better support for SpeedFan.
dusky wrote:+ A CPU cooler. I was considering the Scythe Ninja 3 CPU Cooler.

The Ninja 3 is more probably that not an underperforming cooler.
I would advice you to pick the cheapest among the Cooler Master Hyper212+ (and a good PWM fan, as a Scythe Kama Flow or a Scyhte Slipstream) and the Scythe Mugen 2 Rev. B.
Regards,
Luca

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dusky
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Re: New here. Trying to construct a build.

Post by dusky » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:34 am

After reading a bit more around these parts it seems the Scythe Mugen 2 Cooler Rev B is a pretty good choice.

Motherboard? Well, I need one with firewire so I'm thinking I'll go with the ASUS M4A88TD-M EVO/USB3

quest_for_silence, thank you for the suggestion for a power supply, but the Enermax ECO80-II 400W does not appear to be stocked here in Australia. I've actually started to think I'd be willing to pay a fair bit more for the PSU, but reports around here of buzzing coming from Seasonic PSUs has spooked me a little... What would be the best non-seasonic PSU to use with this fairly low power setup?

Queelis
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Re: New here. Trying to construct a build.

Post by Queelis » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:24 am

A hard drive won't bother you much, since you'll be able to suspend it.

As for the changing of the back Tricool to a Nexus Basic 120 - best thing I've done to my case (Sonata Plus, in essence the same Solo).

quest_for_silence
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Re: New here. Trying to construct a build.

Post by quest_for_silence » Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:20 am

dusky wrote:I'm thinking I'll go with the ASUS M4A88TD-M EVO/USB3

That one or the not-M version, or a M4A89GTD PRO/USB3, or a MSI 880GMA-E55 (I mean it has just two fan headers).
dusky wrote:What would be the best non-seasonic PSU to use with this fairly low power setup?

I don't know about availability in Australia, at anyway something like the Cooler Master Silent Pro M500 should work equally well (in the USA it goes arounf 85-90USD).
Even the Antec True Power New TP-550/TP-650 is a good choice with reference to quietness, but it is Seasonic based.
Otherwise you may go for a Delta-based unit as the Antec EarthWatts 380D Green, but swapping its fan (it's very easy) with something like a Scythe SFF80A or the Noctua R8 (this mod void the warranty).

Other options might be some european suppliers as Nexus or beQuiet! or the Silverstone Strider, Element and Nightjar series, then the Zalman HP series, but I'm afraid they should be all more costly than the Antec Eco or the Enermax ECO.
Regards,
Luca

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dusky
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Re: New here. Trying to construct a build.

Post by dusky » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:45 pm

The Solo can fit both standard and Micro boards? Is there any advantage to getting the non-M version of the board?

And is there any great advantage to the ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3?

Thanks for all those PSU suggestions. The Silverstone Nightjar is an option. Although I must say I like the look of those Enermax PSUs. The lowest wattage Enermax I can find over here is the Enermax MODU87+ 600W, which is pricey and way way more power than I'll need, but then I think they come with a five-year warranty.

quest_for_silence
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Re: New here. Trying to construct a build.

Post by quest_for_silence » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:55 pm

dusky wrote:The Solo can fit both standard and Micro boards?

Yes.
dusky wrote:Is there any advantage to getting the non-M version of the board?

Usually an ATX board should give somewhat better reliability, expandability and mechanical compatibility/workability.
IIRC the ATX have better power regulation, USB 3.0 on board, instead of the external PCI-E card as the M does, and it is CrossFireX certified. It obviously have more expansions slots (mainly for a better hw placement).
dusky wrote:And is there any great advantage to the ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3?

Over the 880M? I think it has a better IGP, 1 SATA port more, a better chipset cooling (heatpipes), slightly better overclocking capabilities, plus the not-M version above quoted.

Just as a side note, ASUS site have a comprehensive product comparison feature, you may use it.
dusky wrote:The lowest wattage Enermax I can find over here is the Enermax MODU87+ 600W, which is pricey and way way more power than I'll need, but then I think they come with a five-year warranty.

They are not on the same league.
The Modu87+ you've found is a modular high end unit like the Seasonic X ones.
The ECO80 I advised for is a somewhat more basic unit with a very favourable noise level.
In the between there's plenty of choice (even if mostly Seasonic based, I guess).
Regards,
Luca

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Plekto
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Re: New here. Trying to construct a build.

Post by Plekto » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:51 am

ASUS or MSI, forget those Gigabytes: you need a mobo with better support for SpeedFan.
I'm not so sure. All of the fans in my system are running at fixed speeds and are directly wired into the power supply itself. Speed Fan and monitoring is simply turned off. I've been running it this way for almost three years and it's rock solid. Though it is a mess of wires and connectors that are at various voltages. Some fans are at 5v, some are at 7v, and so on.

quest_for_silence
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Re: New here. Trying to construct a build.

Post by quest_for_silence » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:06 pm

Plekto wrote:I'm not so sure.

Fixed-enough-low-fan-speed is a very limited scenario, to the extent that it can be almost an hazard: it can't be a widespread use, as it doesn't keep count of different usage patterns, ambient conditions, hardware differences, upgrades, failures, and so on. Moreover it likely requires more experience and tuning to play safe in the long run.

Broadly speaking, an effective fan management/control is definitely the way to go, either software or hardware, to have a really quiet "all weather/all terrain" system.

But all that seems a bit off topic to me, doesn't it?
Regards,
Luca

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CA_Steve
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Re: New here. Trying to construct a build.

Post by CA_Steve » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:06 pm

dusky wrote:I'm looking at building a fairly basic little machine to do some recording with.
What kind of recording? In a studio environment for audio/video? Or, as in, "I want to turn my PC into a DVR for TV shows"?

That'll make a difference on component choice for both silence and speed.
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, Asrock Z97 Anniversary, MSI GTX 1660 Gaming X, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic SSR-550FX. 35W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Plekto
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Re: New here. Trying to construct a build.

Post by Plekto » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:01 pm

quest_for_silence wrote:
Plekto wrote:I'm not so sure.

Fixed-enough-low-fan-speed is a very limited scenario, to the extent that it can be almost an hazard: it can't be a widespread use, as it doesn't keep count of different usage patterns, ambient conditions, hardware differences, upgrades, failures, and so on. Moreover it likely requires more experience and tuning to play safe in the long run.

Broadly speaking, an effective fan management/control is definitely the way to go, either software or hardware, to have a really quiet "all weather/all terrain" system.

But all that seems a bit off topic to me, doesn't it?
It seems to do just fine when it's doing this sort of web posting and also when it's being crushed playing games. The trick is to get the fans at a speed that it can handle gaming and heavy usage and leaving it there all the time. Everything is at a specific rpm and voltage as a result. Of course, I *do* have a huge Ninja on the CPU which is what helps a lot.

In short, what motherboard you chose is really not a huge issue as long as it has solid state capacitors.

ces
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Re: New here. Trying to construct a build.

Post by ces » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:30 pm

quest_for_silence wrote:Fixed-enough-low-fan-speed is a very limited scenario, to the extent that it can be almost an hazard: it can't be a widespread use, as it doesn't keep count of different usage patterns, ambient conditions, hardware differences, upgrades, failures, and so on. Moreover it likely requires more experience and tuning to play safe in the long run.
I think with modern components, fix it at one speed (low) and go works. I use it and I like its simplicity.
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quest_for_silence
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Re: New here. Trying to construct a build.

Post by quest_for_silence » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:31 pm

Plekto wrote:Of course, I *do* have a huge Ninja on the CPU which is what helps a lot.

Apart the CPU it isn't anymore the most important source of heat in modern systems, but your reasoning sounds to me more than a bit oversimplified (not to mention it keeps to seems a bit off topic right here) as it also doesn't address any of the points mentioned in my previous post.
Plekto wrote:In short, what motherboard you chose is really not a huge issue as long as it has solid state capacitors.

I beg your pardon, but it's just your mere opinion, to me even not fully grounded: a better BIOS/chipset implementation makes the difference from an average board and a great one, as well as a proper power management.

But this is a thread about a proposed parts list, and not a talk about how and where motherboards matters, so - again, I beg your pardon - I have nothing more to add about this specific question, here and now.
Regards,
Luca

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quest_for_silence
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Re: New here. Trying to construct a build.

Post by quest_for_silence » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:33 pm

ces wrote:I use it and I like its simplicity.
As I have right now said, it's just to oversimplify.
Regards,
Luca

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Plekto
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Re: New here. Trying to construct a build.

Post by Plekto » Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:55 pm

The deal about solid state capacitors and power regulation circuitry is that they can handle lower airflow or very little airflow over them. Most of these massive tower shaped CPU coolers actually make the problem worse as while they are great for low noise CPU cooling, they don't really cool the board itself very well.

I lost 2 boards (ASUS and Gigabyte) due to this that had normal capacitors. My Gigabyte UR board with SS caps on it is happy as a clam.

Yes, the Ninja is overkill, but it allows me to leave the fan on it at 7V. As for the fans, though, I had to run the thing running a serious game in demo mode and then carefully monitor the temps as I took each fan one at a time and lowered it to a proper level. My outtake fan, for instance, has to be at 9V. My intake fan is fine at ~5V. I also found that fan controllers either overheated or couldn't deliver proper voltages (roughly 11V actual max) - so I just hard-wired everything to one of the main 12V power connectors. One connector goes to the DVD and hard drives and the other goes to the fans only. It's a LONG chain of connectors and extenders and re-worked power connectors (by altering the pin orders, you can change the effective voltage). The "trick" was to make it all function as a big outlet strip so that a continuous 12V line went to all of the fan connectors(I changed the connectors coming from the fans).

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