Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee
Ok, that's done. Now, onto the problem at hand...- cooler: Mugan Max will be overkill unless you plan to overvolt the CPU
Running stock everything, heck no turbo even, here is what I get. BTW had already cleaned off the TIM and applied a fresh coat of the "premium" goo to the CPU previously. Briefly tried adaptive/offset without significant improvement unless I start getting aggressive with the offset amount. Overall, manual gives more control as expected.CA_Steve wrote:A couple things you can try..
- Try running at stock speed / Vcore and see what temps you get at idle / load. If the cooler isn't seated well, the temps will still be way high. If they are, it's time to remove the cooler, clean/reapplying TIM and reattach.
- Instead of manual Vcore, try offset or adaptive modes for a less aggressive Vcore.
Indeed, no p95, occt or anything artificially insane. Doing primarily realbench and the custom x264 loop script from overclockers.net. Both of these are the medium potency stressors. Probably more realistic as I do occasionally need to encode cartoons onto the kid's ipad.mokodi wrote:What are you using to load test? Prime95 with 8 threads with small FFTs can easily heat up the CPU very quickly and cause 90+ degree temperatures. I have never tried an i5 which should run cooler but on my other computer using an i7 4770k temperatures will quickly jump to 100+ causing immediate throttling.
The SPCR tests run Prime95 with a 4x blended setting which does not load it as much.
I reverted back to a (near) silent CPU fan profile which is attached. It was slightly more aggressive for the stress test. Also attached is the TIM pattern on the initial application where I applied too much I thought. The second time around I used much less and did the line to correspond to the skylake die. Not planning for delidding.CA_Steve wrote:So, ~60C at load with stock voltage and clock. What did the TIM pattern on the CPU IHS look like when you removed the cooler? Was it smushed to a practically transparent layer in the center, or was it thick/opaque and/or did it have fractal patterns in the center?
Also, what's the fan rpm profile like?
I noticed throttling at 100C. Below that it seemed fine. Attached is the CPUID HW Monitor vs Thermal Radar 2 as requested:mokodi wrote:Yeah that's way too much TIM. You only need a bit in the middle (a few grain sized worth) and the mounting pressure of the heatsink will spread the paste. There's no need to spread it out like butter on toast
Can you compare the CPU temperature reported by the Asus Thermal Radar 2 with the values in CPUID HWMonitor? On my computer the Asus tool always reports lower temperatures. I am not sure which is more accurate but the Asus tool is important because that's the temperature it uses to control the fan speeds.
Another indication of high temperatures is throttling. CPUID HWMonitor showed high 80s when I ran Prime95 on my 6700k but the frequency stayed locked at 4200 (max turbo). If the processor were really getting too hot I would expect it to throttle hard. The lack of throttling and lack of stability issues on my own computer made me think that perhaps CPUID isn't reporting the right temperature.
Thank you a lot for sharing!stumbler wrote:Hey there, twitch. De-lurking for a bit to ask a question about your mounting method.
/u/Stumbler Thank you so much for that info. I suspect I may have the same issue. There is more wiggle than I would like with the extra spacers installed for the 1151 board. We recently moved and the cooling has gotten much worse (now hitting 100c) again supporting your theory. The noctua should be here Tuesday from Newegg but your story is encouraging me to attempt one last remount before giving up on this cooler. Given how popular these coolers are on this board I am surprised no one else brought this up in my struggle with the cooler this past month. TBH, this cooler has been much more of a hassle than the prolimatech megalems I put on my old sandybridge many years ago which is much larger.stumbler wrote:Hey there, twitch. De-lurking for a bit to ask a question about your mounting method.
First, some background: a few months ago, I upgraded my system to a new E3 1240 v5 Xeon (that's the newest Skylake E3) using a Kotetsu for cooling. Included in the Kotetsu's various bits of mounting hardware was an extra packet with a pair of spacing washers and special instructions for mounting on a socket 1151 system. Because of the widely reported Skylake damage caused by overly tight installations of certain HSFs, the Kotetsu included, this was Scythe's solution. The extra spacing reduced the mating force, protecting our expensive processors.
The problem, at least with my Xeon, was that it was too much spacing. With the washers installed as directed, the Kotetsu was so loosely coupled that it would wiggle when I touched it. Even though the mounting screws were bottomed out, I could twist it back and forth a few degrees with no noticeable effort. It was so loose that the Ceramique 2 TIM I used to mount it acted as a lubricant instead of a thermal conductor.
Though this was my first experience with an after-market HSF, I knew they should clamp more than hard enough to stay put. So I remounted it without the extra washers, taking care not to tighten it too much, for a guesstimated "too much." I'm not even sure I got the screws on both sides tightened evenly, but it works great.
I don't know if there are any differences in the substrate or heat spreader between the Skylake E3 and i5/i7 chips, but I wouldn't expect any. Based on the amount/pattern of TIM on your heat sink and processor, it looks to my inexpert eye like you didn't have nearly enough contact pressure. So, my question is this: did you use the extra washers for socket 1151 processors? Because that may be the problem.
If you're worried about trying the mount without the extra spacers and the possibility of damaging your costly equipment, as I was, you may take some comfort in knowing that Intel's HSF mounting guidelines supposedly allow for up to 50 pounds (!) of force between the HSF and processor (the first paragraph in the link).
As I noted above, the Kotetsu does very well in my system, a Xeon/Kotetsu in a Fractal Design Define R4, and my Xeon and your i5 have identical stock clock speeds.
It is slightly (1.3x) thicker than a standard credit card. Tried to take a pic of the thickness but the focus was off. Additional pics below.CA_Steve wrote:Before stumbler posted, I didn't know Scythe had added a spacer on the Kotetsu for Skylake/1151...previously, they said only the Mugen and Mugen Max were affected. The thickness difference between Skylake and Haswell is very small - probably a turn or less on the cooler screws. If you get a chance, please post a pic of the spacer - perhaps while threaded on a screw so we can get a size perspective.
...also, if you had taken a second dismounted cooler/cpu picture we could have seen if there was enough mounting pressure...
