Silencing and Overclocking a 5930k

Cooling Processors quietly

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nintendoeats
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Silencing and Overclocking a 5930k

Post by nintendoeats » Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:50 am

Preface
I know that somebody is going to say this, so I want to make it clear that I fully appreciate the need to compromise between, performance, temperature and volume. I would like to find the best mid-point for my needs. I am also aware that every CPU is different and OC results will vary.

Introduction
I recently upgraded from a 2500k with a stable 4.4GHz overclock to a 5930k. My previous system wasn't "silent", but I could run all of the fans at their lowest setting all the time (or even turn some of them off when not stressing the machine). Given that I couldn't hear it at all when the fridge was running, even with the door closed, I considered this acceptable. I anticipated that the new chip would get hotter when overclocked, but I'm really struggling with finding a good balance. Part of the issue is that I am bewildered the array of OC options, and the other is that I clearly need to rethink airflow. Given that the old machine took all of my skill to put together, I am turning to you for advice. I felt it would be productive to make this post longform, so be prepared for a great deal of detail.


How I Use My PC
-General computing
-1080 and 1200p gaming (wide variety of genres)
-Unity development
-Basic audio recording
-Photoshop
-3D Max model creation and rendering
-GPU Folding@Home

Why I Upgraded
-CPU bottle-necking in some games (Just Cause 3, Cities: Cities Skylines, Sniper Elite 4)
-Improving 3D render times
-Potential for greater RAM capacity
-Opportunity for a bargain on Kijiji

Goals
-Achieve a stable overclock of 4.4GHz, or 4.3 if this is not possible
-Keep temps below 85 degrees Celsius, preferred lower
-Achieve near silence under personal worst-case stress test
-Spend little-to-no more money

System
The case is a Corsair Obsidian 550D (apologies for not including it in the chart)
Image

Case fans are 140mm, CPU 120mm. All fans have low-noise adapters installed to lower RPM threshold. Aside from the Accelero all fans, including CPU, are controlled manually by the Recon.

The change in fan configuration is because the GPU needed to be put in a lower slot on this mobo because of the Xtreme IV's upper heatsink. It was therefore competing with the intake fan instead of benefiting from it. This also meant that the side panel could be put back on the case. In practice this does not immediately seem to have made any difference to temps or volume. The case sits on a slatted wooden support which means that there should be good airflow from beneath.

XMP is disabled on the RAM.

Total Available Fans
1 * Be Quiet! Silent Wings 2 120mm
3 * Be Quiet! Silent Wings 2 140mm
3 * Be Quiet! Silent Wings 3 High Speed 140mm
1 * Be Quiet! Pure Wings 2 140mm
2 * Silenx 140MM HDB fans

How I Stress Test a CPU
For a real-world gaming test I run Folding @ Home on both the CPU and GPU. This simulates high usage of both components and can be considered a worst case for my needs, as I normally do not fold on the CPU. To test the at-the-limit CPU stability I run a long render in 3D Max. I cannot monitor temps while doing this as both monitoring programs I have used freeze during renders due to 100% CPU utilization.

Experiments Thus Far
(Note that ambient temperature is currently 28 degrees because the AC is due to be serviced. Ambient is unlikely to ever get much higher)

I am currently working with 3 fan profiles. #1 is "quiet enough" like before. #2 would be silent by most people's standards, but not mine. #3 maxes all four fans. This is still pretty quiet for a loud profile, but most people would find it unacceptable. I have created a custom fan curve for the GPU which I do not adjust with these profiles.

The CPU can run at 4.4 GHz with a voltage around 1.25v and while that was not stable I believe that further voltage tuning could get it there. However, temps can exceed 90 degrees which may be safe according to Intel (which lists an approximate TJMax of 98 by my calculation) but seems unwise for overnight renders. 4.3 is a bit better, peaking in the high 80s. Since there are so many OC settings to play with that I could spend the rest of my life working on that side, I decided to bring it down for now and focus on what I can achieve in cooling before playing with voltages too much.

I lowered the CPU multiplier to 42 and dropped the voltage to 1.2v. I ran two F@H tests, one on profile #3 for 20 minutes, then another on profile #2 for 20. I didn't run #1 given the results under #2.

Image
Profile #3 (max fans)

Image
Profile #2 (medium fans)

As you can see, profile #3 produces more or less acceptable temps and going up to 4.4Ghz should be possible. However, #2 is really pushing it. What this demonstrates is that there is still plenty of headway to be made by improving airflow. It also says to me that voltage adjustment is not going to be enough to get to a silent 4.4Ghz.

As far as changes to fan organization, I tried creating a straight line up through the case by reorienting the fan on the Ninja 4 to face upwards. This at best made no difference and may have been slightly worse. Scythe specifically says that it should not be oriented this way (I think because it blows less air over the heat pipes) so I returned it to normal. The only other change I made was the switch from side to bottom intake as mentioned above.

If I had my druthers I would have purchased a Micro-ATX board and a smaller case in order to allow a more efficient use of air. Unfortunately the X99-A is what was available to me and I am not prepared to spend another $400+ at this time.

The Question
I would like to know what you would do to improve this setup and move towards achieving my goals. I am also interested in any advice you might have on overclocking on this board. I have read Haswell overclocking guides, but most of them don't mention anything beyond normal overclocking procedure. On my 2500k the only real options were multiplier and some voltages. Now there is strap, cache ratio and voltage, phase adjustments, active frequency mode, and many MANY settings I don't even begin to understand. That's before you enter "Tweaker's Paradise" in the UEFI.

Thanks in advance!

Image
Please excuse the mess, it's not quite properly cable managed yet. Yes, the Xtreme IV is absurd overkill on a 1060, I knew that when I bought it.
Last edited by nintendoeats on Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Silencing and Overclocking a 5930k

Post by CA_Steve » Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:53 pm

Maybe I missed it, but what's the case? :)

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Re: Silencing and Overclocking a 5930k

Post by quest_for_silence » Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:55 pm

nintendoeats wrote:The Question
I would like to know what you would do to improve this setup and move towards achieving my goals.

My "non-answer" is that your goals look like maybe a tad too much ambitious for your described resources.

Said that, did you tried the original Scythe fan on the Ninja?
And moreover, were those reported temps obtained with the side panel open or closed (I suppose the case is an Obsidian 550D, right?)?

nintendoeats wrote:I am also interested in any advice you might have on overclocking on this board.
About that, sorry, I can't help.
Last edited by quest_for_silence on Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Silencing and Overclocking a 5930k

Post by vishcompany » Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:55 pm

Which case is this?
Is it possible to remove the upper drive cage?
I would try to change the fan configuration to 1 back exhaust and 1 or 2 intake fans in the front. Then, if you really need it, reactivate the bottom intake and see if it helps. I would avoid conflicting directions in airflow (bottom-top crossing front-back). You might hear different opinions, telling you the concept of airflow is bs and all that matters is pressure. Try out, what works best for you.

Do you really need the extra fan controller? Your mobo has 2 CPU and 4 case fan plugs (all 4 pin, if I'm not mistaken). You could try Asus' own software or SpeedFan or maybe even be lucky and have enough options in the BIOS.
Personally I am using SpeedFan for years now in a variety of setups. Never lets me down. There is a bit of a learning curve, though, if you never used it before. Totally worth it.

Keep us posted! :)

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Re: Silencing and Overclocking a 5930k

Post by nintendoeats » Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:26 pm

My apologies, I meant to include the case in that chart. It's a Corsair Obsidian 550D.
quest_for_silence wrote: My "non-answer" is that your goals look like maybe a tad too much ambitious for your described resources.

Certainly a valid answer.
quest_for_silence wrote:Said that, did you tried the original Scythe fan on the Ninja?

When I got it yes. It was ok, but not as quiet as the Silent Wings. In any case, I think I gave it to somebody.
quest_for_silence wrote:And moreover, were those reported temps obtained with the side panel open or closed (I suppose the case is an Obsidian 550D, right?)?

Once I moved the fan to the bottom of the case I closed the side panel.

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Re: Silencing and Overclocking a 5930k

Post by nintendoeats » Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:37 pm

vishcompany wrote:Which case is this?
Corsair Obsidian 550D
vishcompany wrote:Is it possible to remove the upper drive cage?
I already have, unless you mean the 5.25" bays in which case no.
vishcompany wrote:I would try to change the fan configuration to 1 back exhaust and 1 or 2 intake fans in the front. Then, if you really need it, reactivate the bottom intake and see if it helps. I would avoid conflicting directions in airflow (bottom-top crossing front-back). You might hear different opinions, telling you the concept of airflow is bs and all that matters is pressure. Try out, what works best for you.
This selection is based primarily on this comparison by bit-tech. The original configuration was as you described and the improvement was noticeable when I changed to the side intake. Of course, that was back when I was using a Hyper 212 on my 2500k so this setup might behave differently.
vishcompany wrote:Do you really need the extra fan controller? Your mobo has 2 CPU and 4 case fan plugs (all 4 pin, if I'm not mistaken). You could try Asus' own software or SpeedFan or maybe even be lucky and have enough options in the BIOS.
Personally I am using SpeedFan for years now in a variety of setups. Never lets me down. There is a bit of a learning curve, though, if you never used it before. Totally worth it.
Honestly, I don't. My old motherboard wouldn't run the fans anywhere near low enough, but the new one almost certainly would. I have been considering handing off the CPU cooler to the motherboard so that it can scale the fan with load, though this wouldn't resolve the peak airflow problem.
vishcompany wrote:Keep us posted! :)
Will do! Thanks for the tips.

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Re: Silencing and Overclocking a 5930k

Post by quest_for_silence » Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:59 pm

nintendoeats wrote:
quest_for_silence wrote: My "non-answer" is that your goals look like maybe a tad too much ambitious for your described resources.

Certainly a valid answer.

Well, my first concern is that an oc'ed Haswell-E is a tad too much hot for a Ninja with a low spinning fan: while this heatsink is perfectly adequate for a 115x CPU, an oc'ed 2011-3 one is >100W hotter than the smaller siblings, and that's the main reason why you got higher temps.

Moreover you have a too restrictive vents for such an hot crittie: obviously, you may increase the airflow (at a noise cost), for instance with a pair of front intakes as already suggested, but nonetheless that heatsink is really pushed hard.

nintendoeats wrote:
quest_for_silence wrote:Said that, did you tried the original Scythe fan on the Ninja?

When I got it yes. It was ok, but not as quiet as the Silent Wings. In any case, I think I gave it to somebody.

That's another issue: although less quiet, it's more efficient than Be Quiet SW so it can squeeze more cooling prowess from the Ninja.

nintendoeats wrote:
quest_for_silence wrote:And moreover, were those reported temps obtained with the side panel open or closed (I suppose the case is an Obsidian 550D, right?)?

Once I moved the fan to the bottom of the case I closed the side panel.

So were the running temps always recorded with the side panel in place, right?

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Re: Silencing and Overclocking a 5930k

Post by nintendoeats » Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:14 pm

quest_for_silence wrote:Well, my first concern is that an oc'ed Haswell-E is a tad too much hot for a Ninja with a low spinning fan: while this heatsink is perfectly adequate for a 115x CPU, an oc'ed 2011-3 one is >100W hotter than the smaller siblings, and that's the main reason why you got higher temps.

That's a fair point. I will consider that as a possible future upgrade point.

quest_for_silence wrote:
nintendoeats wrote:
quest_for_silence wrote:Said that, did you tried the original Scythe fan on the Ninja?

When I got it yes. It was ok, but not as quiet as the Silent Wings. In any case, I think I gave it to somebody.

That's another issue: although less quiet, it's more efficient than Be Quiet SW so it can squeeze more cooling prowess from the Ninja.
Ok, That's something I will bear in mind as well. While looking to see if I still have the scythe I did find a Cougar V12HB in a drawer, so
I will see if that is a better pairing (though I suspect it might not be).

quest_for_silence wrote:So were the running temps always recorded with the side panel in place, right?
All temps in that post are with the side panel closed. Several of them were matched by performance with the side fan mounted and the upper part of that opening covered by foam and tape.

On that note however, I just tried removing the covering I had put over the top front fan mounting point. I could feel air being sucked through it immediately, and repeating the stress test with profile #2 on produced results 3 - 5 degrees lower. Based on various thermometers in and outside the case ambient has dropped at most a degree, so that is significant. I am wondering if opening up the side panel and uncovering the upper blockage might produce results. I believe I will experiment with that now.

EDIT: Nope, actually a few degrees worse and much louder

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Re: Silencing and Overclocking a 5930k

Post by CA_Steve » Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:20 pm

Sounds like restricted airflow...I don't recall if the 550D has fan filters...if so, try removing and see if that helps.

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Re: Silencing and Overclocking a 5930k

Post by nintendoeats » Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:13 pm

CA_Steve wrote:Sounds like restricted airflow...I don't recall if the 550D has fan filters...if so, try removing and see if that helps.
It does, but only on the intake panels. I will experiment with removing them, though I suspect that the underside one may be worth the restriction.

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Re: Silencing and Overclocking a 5930k

Post by quest_for_silence » Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:21 am

nintendoeats wrote:
quest_for_silence wrote:That's another issue: although less quiet, it's more efficient than Be Quiet SW so it can squeeze more cooling prowess from the Ninja.

Ok, That's something I will bear in mind as well. While looking to see if I still have the scythe I did find a Cougar V12HB in a drawer, so
I will see if that is a better pairing (though I suspect it might not be).

That Cougar shouldn't be that bad, but I guess it won't be a gamechanger (a german user comparison, if needed).

Personally I'd try to follow a different approach, I'd try if the SW3 140 HS alternative anti-vibration corners were somehow compatible with the Ninja's clips: in case, your heatsink should sport two pairs of clips, so my first move would be moving the 2 SW3 140 HS from the case exhaust (a bit pointless, IMVHO, using 1600rpm exhaust fans on a low noise rig) to the CPU cooler, because the SW 140 should push up to a 40-50% more air than the 120mm variant at the lower speeds, and the push pull is beneficial on the Ninja.

nintendoeats wrote:On that note however, I just tried removing the covering I had put over the top front fan mounting point. I could feel air being sucked through it immediately, and repeating the stress test with profile #2 on produced results 3 - 5 degrees lower. Based on various thermometers in and outside the case ambient has dropped at most a degree, so that is significant.
As I said in my previous post, talking of restrictive vents, as also Steve and others already noted/commented, your Corsair apparently is starving for air, so a couple of relatively slow running 140mm front fan may prove beneficial.

My gut feeling is that push pull fans on Ninja, three intakes (2 front/1 bottom) and one rear exhaust might turn out as a viable option, or at least, it could be something I'd try: it's a total of six fans, so given that you already have those six BQ SW 2/3 140mm, you have just to find the best controlling method (I guess ASUS BIOS/SW or Speedfan, albeit I'm not that confident SpeedFan will work flawlessly on X99: at any rate, give a read to the fine SPCR guide).
Last edited by quest_for_silence on Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Silencing and Overclocking a 5930k

Post by nintendoeats » Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:26 am

quest_for_silence wrote:
Personally I'd try to follow a different approach, I'd try if the SW3 140 HS alternative anti-vibration corners were somehow compatible with the Ninja's clips: in case, your heatsink should sport two pairs of clips, so my first move would be moving the 2 SW3 140 HS from the case exhaust (a bit pointless, IMVHO, using 1600rpm exhaust fans on a low noise rig) to the CPU cooler, because the SW 140 should push up to a 40-50% more air than the 120mm variant at the lower speeds, and the push pull is beneficial on the Ninja.
I will give that a try. In the meantime, I have put the Cougar in a push-pull configuration with the Silent Wings 2 and that has been worth a couple of degrees with no noticeable volume increase in profile #2.
quest_for_silence wrote:
My gut feeling is that push pull fans on Ninja, three intakes (2 front/1 bottom) and one rear exhaust might turn out as a viable option, or at least, it could be something I'd try: it's a total of six fans, so given that you already have those six BQ SW 2/3 140mm, you have just to find the best controlling method (I guess ASUS BIOS/SW or Speedfan, albeit I'm not that confident SpeedFan will work flawlessly on X99: at any rate, give a read to the fine SPCR guide).
Unfortunately those Silent Wings 3s are another example of taking what I could get for cheap on Kijiji. I know that I'm not really using them correctly, and the Silent Wings 2s are quieter at the bottom end of their RPM.

I am going to take some time to experiment with new configurations using more fans. I will report back with results. Thank you very much for your help!

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Re: Silencing and Overclocking a 5930k

Post by quest_for_silence » Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:37 am

nintendoeats wrote:Unfortunately those Silent Wings 3s are another example of taking what I could get for cheap on Kijiji. I know that I'm not really using them correctly, and the Silent Wings 2s are quieter at the bottom end of their RPM.

The 1600rpm SW3 HS has a min speed of a bit above 400rpm and less than 450rpm at the starting voltage (around 3.7V): so whether it can be more noticeable than a 1000rpm SW 2 when used as a case fan, more probably that not it will perform better on an heatsink, given that well inside the case there should not be any straight path from the fans to the operator chair (your seat).

BTW I think you have to tinker a lot with the controlling method, to reduce the noise: I wish you every success in your work.

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Re: Silencing and Overclocking a 5930k

Post by nintendoeats » Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:43 am

quest_for_silence wrote: BTW I think you have to tinker a lot with the controlling method, to reduce the noise: I wish you every success in your work.
Thanks, I will keep this thread posted as progress is made. I am already seeing gains from fitting a 140mm on to the Scythe (thought it required a barely adequate kludge involving zip-ties), which I would never have thought to try if you hadn't suggested it. I think I'm going to have to keep my eye out for a good deal on a proper 140mm cooler :p

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Mid-Build Update

Post by nintendoeats » Thu May 11, 2017 10:13 am

While I haven't finalized the whole system yet (which could take weeks as I have to tweak and test OC settings), I thought you deserved an update because I have made good progress.

I managed to coax two 140mm fans onto the Scythe Ninja 4 (a Silent Wings 3 on the intake and Silent Wings 2 on the exhaust).

Image

I was also able to exactly fit a 140mm Silent Wings 2 into the front, encroaching into the 5 3/4" bays. Note that the standard front intakes are only supposed to fit 120mm fans, but there is just enough space...almost as if another version of this case has 140mm fan mounts up there >_>. Also observe the the holes drilled into the side which allow airflow without rendering the bays unusable. Ultimately I will have to clip those side panels out as much as possible because temps still increase by a few degrees with the door closed.

Image

Of course, I have also done some cable management and cleared air pathways as much as possible.
Image


Results
With this arrangement I am able to run folding on both the CPU and GPU at 4.3Ghz in fan profile 1 at an ambient of 26 while staying under 85 degrees on the hottest cores... so long as the case door is open. That is enough to make the difference between quiet enough for me, and quiet enough for non-anal people.

I have found that I can easily run higher overclocks when not performing GPU intensive tasks (such as when rendering 3D models or video). Prior to installing the front fan I was running 4.2 GHz for Folding, 4.3Ghz for rendering because 4.3 while the GPU was maxed produced intolerable temps. I have no doubt that there is more to be got from that CPU when the GPU is idling.

Moving Forward
Since it is preventing me from mounting the front fan further up, I am going to move away from the standalone fan controller to the motherboard headers. And yes, it WILL be nice to let the machine manage the transition between states and turn off fans when they aren't needed. I preferred to maintain absolute control at all times when it required very little management, but now I am transitioning between profile 1 and 2 reasonably often and it's a bit of a faff. Fan control on this board is about eight thousand times better than it was on my old board (not surprising considering the price gulf), so I shouldn't be losing anything by doing this.

As mentioned above, I will also need to remove the sides of the 5 3/4" bays to provide better airflow with the doors closed. I'm not sure how to do this without making a mess (though in the end it doesn't matter that much, since any rough edges will only be visible with the door open).

Eventually I will move to a proper 140mm cooler. Maybe a Raijintek Tisis Core Edition since I don't need the fans, but we'll see what comes up.

DUST!

Much more fiddling with overclocking, with separate profiles for CPU-intensive tasks and heavy mixed usage.

Once this build is at a point that I consider "finished" (which may be longer than a month, even if we ignore my hunt for a deal on a cooler), I will put together a full build guide in the appropriate forum.

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Re: Silencing and Overclocking a 5930k

Post by NeilBlanchard » Fri May 12, 2017 4:47 am

I think your case is the bottleneck. My current system is in a Phanteks Enthoo Pro M, and the key thing I had to do to get temps down AND make it much quieter - was to put in a top fan. I added 2 actually - the first one made a huge difference.

My current case has intakes galore - and yet I could only keep it cool and quiet when the door was off; until I added the top fans. My high temperature is on the lower EVGA 1070 FTW video card, and the 4gHz stock voltage i5 is fine with a Kotetsu.

***********

Are you using a top fan(s)?

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Re: Silencing and Overclocking a 5930k

Post by nintendoeats » Fri May 12, 2017 5:55 am

NeilBlanchard wrote:Are you using a top fan(s)?
I have a 140mm Silent Wings 3 as a top-rear exhaust fan, and the top-front mount is exposed because air likes to flow through it.

What is your reasoning about the case as a bottleneck?

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Re: Silencing and Overclocking a 5930k

Post by NeilBlanchard » Fri May 12, 2017 11:08 am

We both had issues until the side door was removed. Your case looks like the intakes are more constricted than on mine - and until I added the top 140mm fans, mine had issues.

Your case also has more internal obstruction - the drive frames, in particular.

The Ninja 4 is one of the best coolers, and if it is struggling, with two fans and the rear exhaust as well, then I suspect case air flow.

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Re: Silencing and Overclocking a 5930k

Post by nintendoeats » Fri May 12, 2017 3:59 pm

NeilBlanchard wrote:We both had issues until the side door was removed. Your case looks like the intakes are more constricted than on mine - and until I added the top 140mm fans, mine had issues.

Your case also has more internal obstruction - the drive frames, in particular.

The Ninja 4 is one of the best coolers, and if it is struggling, with two fans and the rear exhaust as well, then I suspect case air flow.
I suspect that in the stock configuration you are right. Today I switched to Speedfan control, removed the fan controller and moved the front fan up so that it is a straight shot to the CPU. This means that both intake fans have an unobstructed path to the part they are primarily feeding, so aside from venting the front door I don't know if there is any way it could be improved (short of a smaller case which moves the front intake closer to the CPU).

While the Scythe is excellent, there is no doubting that a larger cooler would be able to take advantage of those exhaust fans better. How much of a difference that would ultimately make is another matter.

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Re: Silencing and Overclocking a 5930k

Post by quest_for_silence » Fri May 12, 2017 11:52 pm

nintendoeats wrote:I have a 140mm Silent Wings 3 as a top-rear exhaust fan
Did you try it as an intake? And what about flipping the PSU?

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Re: Silencing and Overclocking a 5930k

Post by nintendoeats » Sat May 13, 2017 3:35 am

quest_for_silence wrote:
nintendoeats wrote:I have a 140mm Silent Wings 3 as a top-rear exhaust fan
Did you try it as an intake? And what about flipping the PSU?
Do you mean as a top-front intake or top-rear intake? I haven't tried either.

If you mean flipping it on its top so that the vents face down, the manual specifically says not to do that because it relies on residual airflow from the case to cool itself (fanless remember).

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Re: Silencing and Overclocking a 5930k

Post by quest_for_silence » Sat May 13, 2017 5:15 am

nintendoeats wrote:Do you mean as a top-front intake or top-rear intake? I haven't tried either.

Flipping that top fan is such a quick check that you should.

nintendoeats wrote:If you mean flipping it on its top so that the vents face down, the manual specifically says not to do that because it relies on residual airflow from the case to cool itself (fanless remember).

Broadly speaking, PSU manuals are more a marketing matter, than a technical one.

Actually it's rather immaterial what you do, as well as Seasonic knows and tells: even better, more probably that not you should flip the PSU according to the previous Seasonic link.

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Re: Silencing and Overclocking a 5930k

Post by nintendoeats » Mon May 15, 2017 4:37 am

quest_for_silence wrote:
nintendoeats wrote:Do you mean as a top-front intake or top-rear intake? I haven't tried either.

Flipping that top fan is such a quick check that you should.
And I certainly will give it a shot when I get back home.

quest_for_silence wrote:
nintendoeats wrote:If you mean flipping it on its top so that the vents face down, the manual specifically says not to do that because it relies on residual airflow from the case to cool itself (fanless remember).

Broadly speaking, PSU manuals are more a marketing matter, than a technical one.

Actually it's rather immaterial what you do, as well as Seasonic knows and tells: even better, more probably that not you should flip the PSU according to the previous Seasonic link.
That page also states that fanless PSUs should be mounted with the vents up. I appreciate the advice, but in this instance I would rather not take the risk, particularly given that this machine runs at near full-power 24/7.

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Re: Silencing and Overclocking a 5930k

Post by NeilBlanchard » Mon May 15, 2017 4:44 am

My guess is that trying to have an intake at the top of any case is not going to be helpful. The natural convection is for warmer air to rise, and the best air flow set up works with this; not against it.

There is only one or two coolers that has better cooling than the Ninja 4, and the Ninja is probably the best with low air flow. If quiet is what you want, I think you would be hard pressed to find a better cooler.

Installation and / or CPU spreader flatness is something we haven't discussed (at least that I saw). Have you looked at this? How much thermal paste did you use?

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Re: Silencing and Overclocking a 5930k

Post by nintendoeats » Mon May 15, 2017 4:54 am

NeilBlanchard wrote:My guess is that trying to have an intake at the top of any case is not going to be helpful. The natural convection is for warmer air to rise, and the best air flow set up works with this; not against it.
That was my feeling also.
NeilBlanchard wrote:Installation and / or CPU spreader flatness is something we haven't discussed (at least that I saw). Have you looked at this? How much thermal paste did you use?
I didn't go nuts and put on too much like many people do, but I did have a bit of a faff getting the Ninja 4 on (because of my own idiocy) so it's conceivable that I may have introduced air bubbles. It's actually something that I've been trying to avoid thinking about :p

Beyond that, I'm not prepared to risk my processor by lapping and that's the only method of which I am aware to improve heat transfer at that point in the chain.

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Re: Silencing and Overclocking a 5930k

Post by quest_for_silence » Mon May 15, 2017 6:37 am

nintendoeats wrote:That page also states that fanless PSUs should be mounted with the vents up. I appreciate the advice, but in this instance I would rather not take the risk, particularly given that this machine runs at near full-power 24/7.

No, I'm sorry, but I guess you didn't take it that straight.

Those Seasonic official stamements, for what they worth, says two things to you: a) first of all, their fanless PSUs can run upside down (and particularly, they HAVE TO RUN upside down in top mount case where there's less than 5cm from top panel, as almost always), demonstrating it's a normal operation which DOES NOT shorten their life (so, set aside the manufacturer warranty, there's no risk to take); b) you have a huge heatsink at less than 5cm from the PSU vent, which is both a condition to flip the PSU and, above all, which means that you are actually heating the GPU (possibly speeding up its fans), which in turn heats up the CPU cooler (likely speeding up its fans/increasing the core temps).

About running at full bore at high temps, well, I think you could brush up on SPCR fanless PSU testings.

Said that, do always what you think best: it's the preferable option, moreover my actual experience and what Seasonic eventually says are different, but that can't clear anyone's bias/fear.

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Re: Silencing and Overclocking a 5930k

Post by nintendoeats » Mon May 15, 2017 11:33 am

quest_for_silence wrote:About running at full bore at high temps, well, I think you could brush up on SPCR fanless PSU testings.
That's actually very compelling. I get the reasoning behind flipping the PSU, and given the results you pulled with the 400W Seasonic (which is basically the maximum wattage I pull from this unit based on measurements at the wall) I think I would be willing to give that a go.

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Re: Silencing and Overclocking a 5930k

Post by NeilBlanchard » Mon May 15, 2017 11:41 am

Well, the heat transfer from the CPU to the heatsink base is critical, as I'm sure you know. The grain of rice size thermal paste is the gold standard, as far as I know. If you have a flaw there, then that is not going to be overcome with more air flow.

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Re: Silencing and Overclocking a 5930k

Post by nintendoeats » Tue May 16, 2017 10:56 am

Most recent changes:
Flipped the PSU (Did this yesterday. The difference was marginal, but better cable routing is possible with it flipped)

Figured out how to override most of the motherboard's fan control so that Speedfan can stop fans.
Removed the Ninja 4 and reapplied thermal paste, this time getting the cooler installation right the first time.
Some cable management below the GPU.
Removed the "Q-Connector" which made the power and reset button leads unnecessarily tall.
Clipped out more of the area around the front fan (still more of this to do).
Removed the grill below the bottom intake fan.
Removed the drive cage and used double sided tape to arrange my SSDs as seen below.
Image

Since I did all of the above, aside from the PSU, at the same time, it's hard to say what had the greatest effect. Unfortunately in this instance science had to give way to practicality. However, we are now cooking with gas so to speak.

I am now running at 4.4GHz (not confirmed stable, but folding has been running for a few hours now). Here is the volume as measured from the loudest point I could find outside the case (the loudest it gets is 42 dba):
Image

And here are our temps (ambient 27 degrees, with the front door open. They go up when it's closed which is my ultimate goal)
Image

Now, I still don't consider this to be quiet enough given how close it is to my desk, but I'd say that progress is excellent.

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Re: Silencing and Overclocking a 5930k

Post by quest_for_silence » Tue May 16, 2017 2:57 pm

Thanks for sharing.

I didn't understand two things: did you just remove the HDD cage or did you even mount a second front intake fan?
And what about flipping the top fan from exhaust to intake? Can't it be an easy experiment to carry on?

Last but not least, about the thermal paste, which one did you use?

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