Fan Buzz

Control: management of fans, temp/rpm monitoring via soft/hardware

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cleb
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Fan Buzz

Post by cleb » Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:40 pm

I just installed my first fan controller, a VL System's Zephyrus, and found a couple of issues:

1) When I trottle the fans down the make a hum... I have several different fans all by different manufactures... and they all do it... though some more then others... most if not all noise disappeared when I held the fans in my hand an ran them... any ideas??

2) I had to pull out my two Panaflo 80 12L's as they would not run at anything but full power... all other fans would let me throttle down to different percentages of power... I was under the impression that the Panaflos were good for undervolting... these are the japan models too if that helps...

I also found that I was able to completly turn off most of my fans and still run pretty cold... I am using the temp sensors that the Zephrus has to check what MBM lists as my temps. I have one monitoring my CPU, One my north bridge and my last stuck in my PSU... so far with just my front intake (100%), cpu (50%) and PSU (100%) I went from a CPU temp of 32 to 37.... So I set the other fans to only kick off if I get a hi enough temp...

So are the any fans that buzz less when under volted.... or would I be better getting quieter... lower cfm fans...

thanks in advance

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Post by sthayashi » Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:33 pm

Welcome to the reason I hate PWM for fan controlling.

At least this is my speculation. The buzz could also be the fan vibrating on your aluminum case.

cleb
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Post by cleb » Fri Oct 22, 2004 3:17 am

The fans did not hum at all when run at full power... The hum when touching the case seems to come from the fan inself... I was reading some other posts about Attenuators... will they help??? or is this a lost cause... I am really scratching my head over this....

I am thinking I should just get some Silinx's that do not push much air and run them at full bore as I do not seem to need much airflow to keep my rig cool...

the reason I went with this controller is that my case has a door over the drive bays and I have slight less then 1/2 an inch of space... seems like most other controllers have controls the protrude further then that.

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Post by ultraboy » Fri Oct 22, 2004 3:55 am

Umm.. I have different issue with Zephyrus, my fans do not make any pwm noise at all(1 120 mm Tt:oops:, 1 ADDA 80 mm sleeve bearing, and 1 80 mm psu fan - Globe fan I think).:)

My issue is to get it autostart with Windows. Anyway...me back to fixing mode :(

cleb
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Post by cleb » Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:45 am

ultraboy wrote:Umm.. I have different issue with Zephyrus, my fans do not make any pwm noise at all(1 120 mm Tt:oops:, 1 ADDA 80 mm sleeve bearing, and 1 80 mm psu fan - Globe fan I think).:)

My issue is to get it autostart with Windows. Anyway...me back to fixing mode :(
my problem with the software is hibernating hangs the system... read in the manual after that the software needs to be unloaded first... Is there anyway to unload software when hibernating and have it load when resumed??

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Post by teejay » Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:46 am

Can you change the PWM frequency on the Zephyrus? It helped somewhat on my T-Balancer which also uses PWM. But I also ended up swapping fans (all Nexus now except for CPU because that needs more airflow when OCing).

Have you tried softmounting the fans?

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Post by cleb » Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:54 am

how do you soft mount a CPU fan...

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Post by ultraboy » Fri Oct 22, 2004 5:18 am

cleb wrote:my problem with the software is hibernating hangs the system... read in the manual after that the software needs to be unloaded first... Is there anyway to unload software when hibernating and have it load when resumed??
If you mean do it automatically, I don't think so. Probably have to do manual exit and manual open once resume. I think the same applied for standby mode.

Btw. did you use the updated software/usb drivers? and what's your OS? Their tech support is not very helpful, the only suggestion they made for solving my problem is to reinstall my Window XP Pro SP2 - which I did and didn't solve anything. The only thing left to do is clean install which I hate to do. :evil:

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Post by cleb » Fri Oct 22, 2004 5:54 am

Can you change the PWM frequency on the Zephyrus?
Not sure... I do not see anything about it... the only thing I can control is fan percentage...

So the Nexus fans run quiet under PWM... how far can you throttle them... I can get the FBA08A12M's running at 30%... I would have no problem swaping out my fans if people think the Nexuses will run quiet... If so I will have some panaflo FBA08A12M's & L's I can Sell .... The M's let me throttle them down with the humm but the L's stop under 98 %...
Btw. did you use the updated software/usb drivers? and what's your OS? Their tech support is not very helpful, the only suggestion they made for solving my problem is to reinstall my Window XP Pro SP2 - which I did and didn't solve anything. The only thing left to do is clean install which I hate to do. Evil or Very Mad
I am running the latest downloads for both the software and usb off there web site... I am running WinXP Pro SP 2... I have had to restart the software a couple of times because it stopped working but other then the hangups on humernating I have had few problems. Sometimes the settings do not stick but I found if I set the control to manual and back they do...

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Post by teejay » Fri Oct 22, 2004 8:19 am

cleb wrote:how do you soft mount a CPU fan...
Well, I meant your casefans... but I actually sort-of-soft-mounted mine with a 80mm silicon gasket. I doubt it has a lot of impact on the noise signature but hey, it won't hurt.

The T-Balancer software also has some issues with hibernate/standby. I simply exit them before powering down.

cleb
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Post by cleb » Fri Oct 22, 2004 8:56 am

I am thinking about just getting a Zalman BR123 bracket and mounting a 120mm nexus over the CPU...

does anyone here drive the PSU fan with a controller... not sure if that one is a good idea...

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Post by ultraboy » Sun Oct 24, 2004 1:21 am

cleb wrote:does anyone here drive the PSU fan with a controller... not sure if that one is a good idea...
Well, I do. Through Zephyrus I set psu fan at 40% and temp trigger point at 45C for psu fan to speed up. The temp is measured by temp probe wedged in between psu heatsink. At normal use e.g. email, browsing etc. temp would be hovering around 43-44C (for comparison hot air exhaust from psu at that point would be around 33C). Btw my psu has its own air duct which you can see in the pic linked from this thread.

I've tried pushing psu temp to go higher than 45C and psu fan will start to ramp up until psu is cooled down below 45C again, at that point fan will go back to 40%. So it should be ok.

The only problem I have now is that I do not believe I could 100% trust Zephyrus software to run on its own as it seem to have some issues. And until I can assure myself that software is reliable I'll keep my eyes on it which kind of defeat the purpose. :(

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Post by cleb » Sun Oct 24, 2004 7:50 am

I think it needs to start after mbm finishes... of course this is just a guess... I think I am going to create a startup script and see if it starts better.... that is the only time I get a hang...

other problem I ran into was that I had to slow the machine down... I was running at 12.5 * 175 @ 1.525 volts... I had to increase power to 1.6 and change the fsb to 166 to become stable again... only change was installing Zephyrus

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Post by ultraboy » Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:29 am

cleb wrote:I think it needs to start after mbm finishes... of course this is just a guess... I think I am going to create a startup script and see if it starts better.... that is the only time I get a hang...
I'm in the process of formatting a spare Hdd, will try to do fresh install WinXP SP2, plus programs that come with MB. Then will install Zephyrus to see its behavior. Will report later. :?

Edit: Well, spent whole night for that and still have problem autostart Zephyrus (it failed 6 times out of 10). Back to problem solving mode. :(

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Post by cleb » Fri Oct 29, 2004 8:49 am

same here... just loaded MCE 2005 and after getting everything re-installed hangs on startup....I think I am going to have to create a startup script to delay startup until everything else has loaded...

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Post by ultraboy » Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:35 am

Yeah, try that and let me know.

Btw, I received a respond from their marketing guy (it's the 2nd respond in 2 weeks spread compare to my 5 emails to them, should not complain too much though at least they still reply :roll: ). He kind of try to suggest that I should look at USB port setting , but his advise was a bit confusing e.g. refering to document that he forgot to attach, calling 'Device Manager' a 'Managing Devices' (that's an easy one to guess) - so I sent back a few more questions for clarification. Will share here later once I get something back.

Nevertheless, have tried fiddling with USB Port Setting (slowing down transfer size) which seem to help Zephyrus program to load with higher success rate but not 100%. Sometime got side effect i.e. Z-Panel did not show any info at all :!: :?: So more questions than answer.

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Post by direavenger » Tue Jan 18, 2005 12:10 pm

I wanted to let you guys know that I've been using the Zephyrus since December, no issues with software install (though I only used the drivers/software from the website, not the disk). I've had the same problems with my Panaflo 80mm L1A's too. I have found the following anomalies with my fans:

Zalman 120mm fan on the 7700Cu - STRONG buzzing at anything other than 100%

Panaflo 80mm L1A - Works at 12V, buzzes from 90%-100%, will not turn below 90%

Antec 120mm case fan - Seems to work okay with PWM, will work in the 60-100% range without significant buzzing or stoppage.

EDIT: I installed MBM5 long before I installed any of the Zypherus software, and I've never had any issues with hanging on startup, or crashes of any type (running WinXP w/ SP2).

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Post by ultraboy » Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:18 am

direavenger wrote:I wanted to let you guys know that I've been using the Zephyrus since December, no issues with software install (though I only used the drivers/software from the website, not the disk). I've had the same problems with my Panaflo 80mm L1A's too. I have found the following anomalies with my fans:

Zalman 120mm fan on the 7700Cu - STRONG buzzing at anything other than 100%

Panaflo 80mm L1A - Works at 12V, buzzes from 90%-100%, will not turn below 90%

Antec 120mm case fan - Seems to work okay with PWM, will work in the 60-100% range without significant buzzing or stoppage.

EDIT: I installed MBM5 long before I installed any of the Zypherus software, and I've never had any issues with hanging on startup, or crashes of any type (running WinXP w/ SP2).
direavenger, thanks for sharing experiences with us.

For fan buzzing issue, try Nexus or Globe fan - seem to work well with pwm and low duty cycle. I've been using Globe 120 mm that can go as low as 20% without issue, also use Enermax 80 mm fan (made by Globe) that doesn't buzz although I do not set this one too low as it's my psu fan.

And yes, I've been using Zephyrus with most recent software since December too(also with WinXP SP2). It's been behaving much better than the time I had the discussion with cleb in this thread (Oh my, this is an old thread you dug up :wink:).

Unfortunately, my experience so far is not as good as yours. I've made my lastest observation about Zephyrus in this thread. Since then I found that sometimes Zephyus software stop responding once I get into gaming and out- this happen more than not. And even if I turn off the program (have to close it through Task Manager) - fans do not go to 100% as they should. For some reason Zephyrus hardware/software doesn't release the control on any fans. :?: Just check while writing this post - it stops responding again :roll: .

Anyway, may be I'm just unlucky with the unit I got. So if you've good experience with it - that what's matter. It's a cool product with good potential.

As for me, my T-Balancer with analog hub just arrived today :wink: :wink:

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Post by direavenger » Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:52 am

Thanks for the info, ultraboy. I've just run into another issue with it. The damn thing will not save any changes that I make in the setup! Whether it be a temp threshold or fan percentage, i changes right back to the defaults once I close the window (or even switch tabs in the window).

I saw mCubed's T-Balancer in Tom's Hardware a month or so ago, and it peaked my interest, but it was a little too expensive for me. Naturally I try to get something cheaper, and it only partly works! Sheesh...I'll wait for the next Zephyrus software revision, I guess.

Oh and I saw the timestamps on your posts after I posted my reply...I had hoped that someone was still watching :wink:

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Post by ultraboy » Sat Jan 22, 2005 6:52 pm

direavenger wrote:Thanks for the info, ultraboy. I've just run into another issue with it. The damn thing will not save any changes that I make in the setup! Whether it be a temp threshold or fan percentage, i changes right back to the defaults once I close the window (or even switch tabs in the window).

That's happenned to me too. :evil:

I found that when I made a change in one of the fan, if I clicked in the setting parameter of another fan so that cursor will move to that new fan - then close window. Once I open the program again that change I made would stay. :roll: :?:

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Post by direavenger » Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:36 am

Well ultraboy, I guyss it might be time to make a change...let me know how things work out with that T-Balancer, looks like I might make the switch if no software patches come soon.

Stupid $45 down the tubes! (that is, until the software becomes effective in the least)

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Post by direavenger » Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:52 am

Do you guys think that it would be good to start a Zephyrus thread, to chronicle the progress of the software, and to discuss our issues with it? I think it would be a goo idea, expecially considering that this software is in its infancy, and will (possibly) be changing quickly. Let me know what you think.

BTW, I've contacted VLSysyem support through the "Q&A" section on their website, and they gave me a "we're looking into it" response. The conversation can be found here:

http://www.vlsys.co.kr/dboard/dboard.php?id=qna_english

Aparrently I'm the only one looking for support with this thing...or I'm part of a select few that bought it :roll:

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Post by ultraboy » Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:18 am

direavenger wrote:...or I'm part of a select few that bought it :roll:
Well, I counted 3 in SPCR that bought it :wink: :lol: Joking aside, I think they will finally get it to work as it should be. I've seen positive signs since the time I bought mine up to now e.g. new drivers/software update, new web page design as well as user forum just introduced (that probably explain why you're the only one - few months ago I can only email to them and wait for answer from the same guy 'Roy'). All these as least show some kind of 'commitment' , it's just that they now have to 'deliver' :wink:

Btw, forgot to ask last time - did you uncheck the safety limit (or whatever it's called) on the fan set up page. With this safety thingy checked, you can not set fan to lower than 60% duty cycle.

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Post by direavenger » Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:16 am

Nah, I left the thing untouched. I thought 60% duty cycle was about as low as I cared to go, so I didn't bother changing it. Did you find something else?

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Post by ultraboy » Sat Jan 29, 2005 1:49 am

direavenger wrote:.. Did you find something else?
No, not really. I played with Zephyrus a lot, and found quite a few glitches in their software either in the fan control as you mentioned or in playback function or sometimes MBM integration.. Somehow their software department is left behind.

Just went to their web and saw that they have not yet responded to your last question. Also noted that there're many people viewing your question - so you're not the only one - keep on pushing them. :evil:

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Post by ultraboy » Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:17 am

direavenger wrote:...let me know how things work out with that T-Balancer....
Just finished installing T-Ban + analog hub, took me a few days to do problem solving with mCubed tech guy 'Maik' (very efficient tech support :D - compared with Zephyrus it's like day and night). Turned out that they sent me T-Ban with old firmware - after firmware update everything works fine.

Now, I'm having fun playing with fan curve. :wink:

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Post by Bluefront » Sun Jan 30, 2005 5:11 am

My experience involves an LIS2.....same company, different hardware, same software issues. Their newest version for the LIS2 disables my auto-fan control. The version I use works ok (2.0.13). My fans don't start till the prog loads....is this normal?

Also who have you been contacting that actually brings a reply?

And...My Globe fans don't humm at any setting. Using Nexus(Yate Loon) fans, caused a humm below 100%.

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Post by ultraboy » Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:39 am

Bluefront wrote:My experience involves an LIS2.....same company, different hardware, same software issues. Their newest version for the LIS2 disables my auto-fan control. The version I use works ok (2.0.13). My fans don't start till the prog loads....is this normal?
I'm not sure about LIS2, but Zephyrus would (when it's working :evil:) start all fans at 100% - then reduce to what have been set once program loads.
Bluefront wrote:Also who have you been contacting that actually brings a reply?
A marketing guy name 'Roy' - I think it's the same one who now gives reply on their forum. Terrible track record on reply - did not respond to my last 2 emails at all.

And yeah, Globe fans are pretty good with PWM, no humm at all even at 20% - and I've been using 3 PWM fan controls already (manual Noise Isolator, Zephyrus, and now T-Ban). Never used Nexus or Yate Loon though.

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My own Zephyrus Experiences

Post by TellarHK » Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:36 pm

I've had a few glitches with this thing myself, having picked it up on sale at www.xoxide.com a few weeks ago. It turned out to be about half the product I was hoping for, and I'm glad I got it for $20 off the usual pricing. I haven't had much of a noticed problem with fan noise, but then I'm not generally in the "silent running" demographic I see around here. What I do notice for problems are the ones mentioned by other folks, but also problems brought on by a lack of decent software design.

I actually sent this guy Roy an email a week or so ago asking if there were any developer documents available so that people in the community might be able to write applications to control the Zephyrus themselves. I have a roommate that may be able to pull out some of this information (he did before using an XM PCR, which also uses Serial over USB to connect) and try and determine some control possibilities, but am wondering if anyone else might have similar ideas or a way to get information from VL System?

Roy never replied to my email, so I'm still hoping to move on this in other directions. I thunk the Zephyrus has good if not great hardware, but software so lousy I think they must have developed it under Windows 3.11.

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Post by ultraboy » Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:04 am

TellarHK - Welcome to SPCR!!!

I doubt that they will ever release the software code. Since Zephyrus software has not been developed on the open code basis - and I think some 'core' part of the software might have been done with an intention to be shared between their other products e.g. L.I.S.2 lcd display/fan control - so one more reason not to disclose.

Nevertheless you raised a very interesting point - Would it be possible for a software coder to work out some simple program by just looking at hardware :idea: .

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