Quiet 60MM Fan - Does One Exist?

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Blooz
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Quiet 60MM Fan - Does One Exist?

Post by Blooz » Sat Nov 06, 2004 8:32 pm

I just built an HTPC using a small case which only has room for a 60MM exhaust fan. It came with a Sparkle 200W PSU which also has a 60MM fan that is thermally controlled. (I bought the case about a year ago, and I can't remember the name it was sold under! It's black and silver, has a door over the DVD drive that says "Optical Drive".)

The exhaust fan isn't terribly noisy. I cut out the stamped grills both on the case and PSU which helped a lot with the noise. I also lined the edges of the exhaust fan cutout with rubber "U" shaped moulding, originally for looks, but it also cuts down on any vibration from the fan/metal contact.

I can barely hear the system run during quiet parts of movies sitting about 6' away from it, but naturally I'd like to make it quieter! The case is pretty nice, and was a steal at $35 with the PSU!

Any ideas on a replacement fan would be appreciated. The fan that came with the case is a "Top Motor" DF1206SM, which is a brand I've never heard of before.

Tibors
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Post by Tibors » Sat Nov 06, 2004 9:46 pm

Search the Fans & Control forum for 60mm fan. (Don't forget to select the second radio button!!) You'll find that the answer is that there are none. But some are less bad than others.

Blooz
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Post by Blooz » Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:56 pm

Well, I'm inclined to agree with you, Tibors, but the case in question doesn't leave any other options!

I did a lot of research this afternoon at many vendor sites. Many places don't list noise levels, so I was kinda going by CFM ratings, which, as we all know, aren't always to be trusted!

SVC and Directron both have 60MM aluminum framed fans which might fit the bill. The fan at SVC is an AOC that is thermally controlled and pushes 26CFM max at 4000RPM. There's a similar Evercool at Directron which is rated at 26.5CFM at 5000RPM, and is supposedly under 30dB's.

Directron also has a Panaflo (FBA06A12L1A), but it's only rated at 12CFM. The noise is rated at 24dB. Unfortunately, I don't think this is enough airflow for the application.

I've had good luck buying fans from non-computer accessory sites, but I've lost the list I had of Web addresses! I bought a bunch of Panaflo's from a place in Florida for $3 each, but I don't remember the name! Does anybody have any links to such places, pure electronics parts suppliers?

Sam Williams
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Post by Sam Williams » Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:59 am

Are you *sure* there's no way you can modify the case to accept an 80mm fan?

Come on... Your Dremel would love a piece of that action.

Blooz
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Post by Blooz » Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:45 am

Sam, believe me, there is no room for an 80MM on the back of the case! I thought about using a 60/80 adapter, but there's no room for that setup either, as it would be hitting the CPU sink. The area between the backplate and the top of the case is so small that it's a tight fit even for the 60mm!

I've already done a lot of Dremel work on the front of the case. There was a row of "fins" on the bottom of the plastic front, but it was solid plastic in between the fins. I cut slots with the Dremel in this area.

When the plastic front panel is removed, there was a 4"x2" area that was punched with holes, but was still pretty restrictive. I cut the whole panel out. It would be easy to install 80MM fans on the sides, there's plenty of room inside for that.

The mods I've already done seem to work pretty well - CPU temps at idle are 35-36C, and 41-42C when watching movies.

I should post some pics of this case - anybody know a good site for hosting pics?

Schroinx
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Post by Schroinx » Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:02 pm

I have been considering the same issue, since I'm get the Ahanix Dvine 5 case pretty soon, instead of my rather dull looking Noise Control Desktop (but it was my first attemt to build a silent PC).
Here is my findings so far:

Papst have the 612N/2GML, rated at 14,5 CFM@19db

However I also found these http://www.smartcooler.de/frscd31.htm But there is no mention of how much air they moves. The noise ratings look rather good, thou. It would be nice to know if anyone have any experince with the Smartcooler fans.

And pics, please :)

/Schroinx

Schroinx
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Post by Schroinx » Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:09 pm

Just an update. The Smartcooler 60x60x25 moves 42 cfm (25 m3/hour *1,699) at 2200 RPM and 18 dbA, as far as I can see. The 25 m3/hour is stated in the specs.

/Schroinx

(edit: I thought it sounded a bit high CFM rating, and it is.)

Schroinx
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Post by Schroinx » Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:17 pm

Sorry for my miscalculations. 25 m3/hour equals 14,7 CFM.

/Schroinx

Pauli
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Post by Pauli » Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:26 pm

Schroinx wrote:Just an update. The Smartcooler 60x60x25 moves 42 cfm (25 m3/hour *1,699) at 2200 RPM and 18 dbA, as far as I can see. The 25 m3/hour is stated in the specs.

/Schroinx

(edit: I thought it sounded a bit high CFM rating, and it is.)
18 dbA? At what distance? My guess is that you'd have to be 20 meters away or more for that reading. Ridiculous.

Schroinx
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Post by Schroinx » Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:33 pm

Whatever.

/Schroinx

Schroinx
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Post by Schroinx » Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:46 pm

There is an other Smartcooler running at 4000RPM, 42.5 m3/hour (25CFM) and 25 dbA. That might be interesting.

/Schroinx

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Post by Sizzle » Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:32 pm

Well, SilenX 60mm fan would be quiet, but it may click. Seem to be varying batches of fans experiencing this. All of my old 80mm SilenX fans don't do this, any of the ones I have bought since they labeled the iXtrema have clicked with the exception of the 40mm fans I bought from them. Those are awesome, I have the IC7 Max3 and I use it in the OTES shroud and one on the NB-1C for Northbridge. Quieter then any supposed low noise 40 mm fan I have, Papst nor Adda.

Never hurts to try, SilenX will refund your money if you are not happy. I sent back a 92mm fan and a 80mm fan because of clicking, the replacements were even worse, they just offered to give me a refund on them.

Back to your case, is it a tower or a desktop? What is the possibility of putting in a blowhole on the top?

Schroinx
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Post by Schroinx » Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:36 pm

Sizzle: I have the same setup. I glued a Zalhman NB coller on the NB. Removed the OTES crap, and it's running like a charm. The 40mm fans will always be shitty.

/Schroinx

Pauli
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Post by Pauli » Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:50 pm

Schroinx wrote:Whatever.

/Schroinx
I'm sorry Schroinx, I was not directing my comment directly to you, but to the manufacturer who published this specification. It's an ongoing point of discussion here about how manufacturers post dbA specifications, but don't say what distance it was measured at. Sorry for the confusion...

Schroinx
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Post by Schroinx » Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:57 pm

No problem.

/Schroinx

Trip
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Post by Trip » Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:06 pm

I use a ADDA 60mm fan that runs very quiet though it only pushes 13.2CFM

Someone in SPCR told me that SilenX uses ADDA fans.

Mouser also sells ADDA fans.

Mouser Catalogue will help you find the right fan. AD0612MB-A70GL looks good to me. 18CFM at 24dBA. You can see my fan there, though not the 12V version, which is 13.2CFM at 16.1dBA.

SilenX claims its 18 CFM is 16 dBA. dBA can be altered and if SilenX fans are made by ADDA, it's probably the 24dBA fan in disguise. EDIT: The fan is at least a little different b/c the wattage is 1.2W rather than 1.68W



Do you know how much CFM your PSU fan pushes?

How hot is the PSU exhaust air?

Make sure your fan is 60 X 60 X 25.

Blooz
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Post by Blooz » Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:32 pm

Trip, I have no clue about the CFM on the fan that came with the case.

It's doing a good job, I can barely hear it during the quiet parts of a DVD or when I'm running the PC as a jukebox and I'm choosing music.

As I said, the mods I've done must be working, because the system is running pretty cool. (see temps in earlier post)

Actually, the whole issue might have become a moot point! I was originally going to use the small case and mATX board. I had another system sitting here (Epox 8RDA+ in an LX-6A19 case, lots of modss done to it for quiet) that I was going to sell to my brother. He's a great mechanic, but an idiot when it comes to electronic stuff!

Anyways, he couldn't get good connections on "dial-up", and insisted on blaming the computer! To make the long and short of it, I wound up buying the system back, as it runs fine and has lots of quality parts. He bought a s***** Compaq, but thinks it's great!

So now I have a dilemma - put more money into the little system, or use the quiet, fast Epox system in the big case? The Epox has the MCP-T Southbridge with "Soundstorm", (yes, it's got an SPDIF connection) while the Biostar is MCP (also has an SPDIF, but no Soundstorm).

If I decide to use the Epox, I'd probably want to sell the little system, as I'll have no real use for it!

DrCR
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Post by DrCR » Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:58 pm

Blooz wrote: I should post some pics of this case - anybody know a good site for hosting pics?
photobucket.com :)

DrCR

________

Blooz
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Post by Blooz » Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:42 pm

Here's a shot of the rear of the system in question:

Image

You can see there's not enough room for an 80MM fan. (The ghetto fastening will be replaced with nuts and bolts soon! The plastic "fan holder" broke!)

Trip
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Post by Trip » Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:09 pm

The PSU fan is 60mm or 80mm?

You were considering replacing which fan again?

What cpu are you using?

Watch your HDD temperature.

Schroinx, if you haven't ordered the ahanix case yet, take a look at this. More expensive, but with 80mm exhaust 8)

Also a better looking version of a case ahanix offers, here (same site).

Neither comes with PSU, but you may replace that PSU anyway.

With the Pentium M coming out, I've been dreaming of an upgrade to the Pentium M, but really I don't need the added performance.

Schroinx
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Post by Schroinx » Wed Nov 10, 2004 5:06 pm

Thanks for the suggestions. I know of the other Ahanix case, and I dislike the look of both because of them being higher than the Dvine 5, however the 80mm fan is a nice one.

Well, if an orange by accident dropped down in my turban, I would choose this:
http://www.atechfabrication.com/products/atech_3000.htm
Both low and less deep than a standart desktop case.

The addition of 70mm fans in the rear compared to the Divine 5's 60mm is a nice catch. Well, the Divine could be a really nice case with a few modifications, but it was for some strange reason designed with this HDTV tuner in mind. If you have a HTPC, why not just go for a PCI card? Or the parallel VFD, when USB have been around for quite some time? And there is plenty of room for another 3 1/2 bay. What where they thinking when they designed this case?

I hope that by the time I upgrade my HTPC, more options will be available.

There just don't seem to be any perfect case around for a HTPC. Hmm, maybe I should design one...

/Schroinx

Trip
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Post by Trip » Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:17 am

there really aren't any ideal cases.

Atech definately has the best, one model even has a 92mm fan hole. The price is just aweful though. My ideal case would cost ~ $550 from them I think.

If you want a little 3.5" drive, get a Mitsumi 2X external floppy. They cost ~$40 believe it or not, but are amazing little drives. I think mine on sale for less...

You've prob. seen silverstone's cases. They offer a few interesting ones. Most recent one looks really good.

Newegg has the older version. Can't locate this newer model yet.

I wonder what optical drives fit the newest model. I wish it was a slim, slot loaded slit.

Blooz
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Post by Blooz » Thu Nov 11, 2004 11:28 am

Trip -

The PSU fan is also a 60MM, but it's thermally control and very quiet. I've only heard it crank up once, and, naturally, then it was loud. The PSU is a Sparkle/Forton.

Here's a shot of the inside, with the DVD drive swivelled up - a nice feature of this case, the HD cage moves the same way! The both just slide out if you need to work on them:
Image

The CPU is an XP1700 "A" chip running at 1.83MHz. Last night I had the system running for 3-4 hours listening to music, and it stayed at 39-40C the whole time.

Trip
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Post by Trip » Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:38 pm

Wow, that's nice. I have the same 2 heatsinks and same silver & copper cables.

I bet your case vibrates a little from that HDD. Some rubber feet might help. Heh, I see you're using the other ear isolator :)

Too bad there isn't a hole for a second case fan. My case has the same problem...

What drive is that on the far left of the picture? is that a floppy?

Blooz
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Post by Blooz » Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:54 pm

That's a floppy on the far left. I still find them useful for BIOS upgrades, etc.

The system sits in a vertical position on the floor under the TV on a rug. As I'm usually sitting about 8-10' away, minor noise isn't an issue.

Those aren't isolators - if you look at the pic I posted earlier, you"ll see that those are zipties being used as ghetto fan holding devices! But the rubber trim acts the same as isolators would. That's how the plastic holder broke - the trim edges are thick enough to cause the "legs" on the holder to break off!

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Post by Chang » Fri Nov 12, 2004 8:20 am

Trip wrote:there really aren't any ideal cases.
Bah. I still think the older Silverstone mATX case (as seen in this review) is the ideal budget case here. It has a (semi-useful) duct to the CPU and has two 80mm exhaust fans. I've seen it priced recently for under $50 shipped.

Tibors
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Post by Tibors » Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:39 am

How about moving to a possitive pressure setup? The right side (as seen in the picture) of the case has enough room for two quiet 80mm fans. You'll need to raise it from the flour with something when you put the case vertical when you do that.

DG
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Post by DG » Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:56 am

Why don't you use an adaptor? 60->80 ?

Schroinx
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Post by Schroinx » Fri Nov 12, 2004 4:51 pm

Chang: mATX cases may be enough for some, but is for most people not an option.

Tibors: Linkage please

DG: If you had read the entire tread, you would know that Boolz have already stated that it is not an option.

/Schroinx

Mats
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Post by Mats » Fri Nov 12, 2004 5:10 pm

How about mounting a 80 mm fan with an angle?
Or maybe a duct directly to the CPU fan instead?

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