A most novel and promising idea...

Dominic · Post by **Dominic** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:19 pm

I've just been surfing, and found this article ! I think many here would find it most interesting: A fan/blower which (apparently) moves 1600cfm with no moving parts, producing only 3db of noise!

Edit: not to mention it removes almost all (99.97% of) particles larger than 0.1 microns! Hey, no more dust!

Post Scriptum: I stand corrected - it blows 850cfm.

Moderator edit: the article mentions 850cfm (cubic feet per minute), and 1,700fpm -- which seems to mean "feet per minute". In other words, it is a velocity, and not a volume. BTW, it also mentions the 1,600fpm number in the one caption.

sthayashi · Post by **sthayashi** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:48 pm

This sounds strangely like the Ionic Breeze by Sharper Image. As for the points made, I'll believe it when I see it. My internal BS meter is going nuts right now.

Dominic · Post by **Dominic** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:00 pm

Hehe, mine was too, trust me!

However, seeing that they've apparently been contracted by the U.S. Navy to produce their device for use on ships, I'm inclined to believe it works!

milleron · Post by **milleron** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:04 pm

sthayashi wrote:This sounds strangely like the Ionic Breeze by Sharper Image. As for the points made, I'll believe it when I see it. My internal BS meter is going nuts right now.

Not mine. Looks legit, but it also looks as though it'll be a long time before we see it used in computer components.

Ron

sthayashi · Post by **sthayashi** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:26 pm

Dominic wrote:However, seeing that they've apparently been contracted by the U.S. Navy to produce their device for use on ships, I'm inclined to believe it works!

And they've been contracted by a company that uses magnets for pain relief. And just because a large government entity is cited, doesn't mean that you should believe that it works.

Plus, that amount of moving air in a small space is not likely to be quiet, let alone 3dB.

This isn't to say that it doesn't work, but I remain skeptical until proven otherwise.

frostedflakes · Post by **frostedflakes** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 7:12 pm

I think this technology looks very promising. I'm not sure if it will ever become practical for personal computing, but I'd love to see what kind of applications this can be used for. The article touches on a few, such as air filtration.

BrianE · Post by **BrianE** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:03 pm

I'll believe it when I see it....

Maybe it's hugely expensive or something, because right now, this sounds like the be-all and end-all of air moving technology. According to their website http://www.kronosati.com/index.html this product is up to 10 times more energy efficient than normal fans (?!?).

Or maybe it needs frequent cleaning....

They say it's fully scalable, so it should make for some reasonable PC cooling options with fewer CFM. If it works.

frostedflakes · Post by **frostedflakes** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:11 pm

Is it that hard to believe? Without friction from bearings or fan blades to rob power, no reason it shouldn't be more efficient.

This tech. sounds so promising, and has so many potential applications, I wonder if it would be a good idea to invest in some stock?

aowen512 · Post by **aowen512** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:27 pm

using the electrostatic crap... wouldnt that interfere with computer components some?? just cant see how that would be safe (im no scientist or anything!!) but it just seems some problems would come from blowing eletricity type through electrical components

liquid_celica · Post by **liquid_celica** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:29 pm

way cool post OP.

It makes sense. The thing is....wouldn't it be hazardous to a PC? Shooting magnetic ions across HDD and circuit boards isn't too safe.

. But if you can forget about that, it'll sure beat a panaflo!

Thunder · Post by **Thunder** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:32 pm

If the military is buying it you know its F'ing expensive and we wont see it for at least five years, look at solid state hard drives the military has had them for years and now even though we can purchase them they are way out of most of out price ranges

Dominic · Post by **Dominic** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:59 am

aowen512 wrote:using the electrostatic crap... wouldnt that interfere with computer components some?? just cant see how that would be safe (im no scientist or anything!!) but it just seems some problems would come from blowing eletricity type through electrical components

Even if it would interfere, which it won't, due to the field being localised, it could be isolated. Such issues usually become non-issues the moment there are good reasons to use new technology!

Reachable · Post by **Reachable** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 7:07 am

Sounds wonderful!

I'm inclined to think that whether or not it's inherently safe it could be made safe to use near circuit boards, (although, as I understand it, electrostatic discharge is the very reason for precautions such as a wrist strap.)

I'm posting this mainly to keep the thread on the "front page" so that more people with knowledge of physics might notice it and comment on it.

Dragon Puppy · Post by **Dragon Puppy** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:06 am

I found this thread by searching for "blower" , and found out that they partnered with IKEA to produce "new consumer products that embed Kronos’ silent, air movement, purification and sterilization technology"

Kronos Advanced Technologies Partners with Ikea

It reads like there comming out with an air purifying sollution.
But when , what size and for how much?

EDIT: The announsment is dated 20 Jun didn't anyone see it?

IsaacKuo · Post by **IsaacKuo** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:37 am

IIRC, Consumer Reports has found that The Sharper Image's Ionic Breeze is simply not as good as normal air purifiers, and that it actually makes the air less healthful due to the ozone it creates. Kronos's air mover operates using the exact same technology, and apparently is "powered" by the exact same marketing verbage.

So, for purposes of purifying the air or improving one's health, this stuff is basically junk.

But what about quiet computing? Well, I wouldn't trust the exausted charged air to be in contact with computer components. However, I think it might work in a negative pressure case design where the ionic air movers are used to suck air out of the case. I'd be concerned about "coil noise", though. The high voltage conversion going on could lead to some seriously annoying high pitched whine. It'd be like a CRT monitor--if you're lucky, it's silent. If not, too bad!

Personally, I trust a silently undervolted fan more. It won't poison your air, and what noise it does create will be inoffensive low frequency noise.

Lubb · Post by **Lubb** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:37 am

I have seen electrostatic blowers before (used in industrial/lab equipment) and the problem with using them as a regular room-fan was always the same--ozone production.

peteamer · Post by **peteamer** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:19 pm

Lubb wrote:the problem with using them as a regular room-fan was always the same--ozone production.

Which is not good for Human consumption...

BrianE · Post by **BrianE** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:20 pm

peteamer wrote:
Lubb wrote:the problem with using them as a regular room-fan was always the same--ozone production.

Which is not good for Human consumption...

But at least then your computer will be germ-free.

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 2:06 am

Greetings,

It seems to good to be true. However, they do mention that corona wires are used in (most?) photocopiers -- and they don't produce any ozone. The article does also mention that they can prevent any arcing, which is what produces ozone.

My first job after high school was at a company that made the equipment to make high-density polyethylene plastic, and in order to print (ink) on it, they had to run it through a unit that had high voltage arcs that then allowed the ink to "stick". Man, that thing produced a bunch of ozone...it smells like burned watermelon: sweet and acrid at the same time.

ipfree · Post by **ipfree** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 6:27 am

I used to have an ionic breeze. It worked will when it was new. After a while it started making a relatively loud high pitched noise kinda like electrical transformers. Eventually it stopped working.

Also, if the kronos uses the same technology as the ionic breeze and it were to blow into your computer a black coating will eventually form on all your components, which is very difficult to clean. If the device has a collection plate, then it may be high maintence, requiring cleaning every week.

peteamer · Post by **peteamer** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 8:30 am

For the record:

As a long time photocopier engineer, I can tell you any copier that uses high voltage electricity through a thin wire will cause a corona effect and ozone will result. It's why copiers have ozone filters in them.
Newer copiers may use a 'comb' instead of a wire as then the effect needed is concerntrated in the direction needed and none is lost needlessly therefore meaning less ozone is produced.
Some new copiers may alternatively use a charge roller which because it is in direct contact with the drum has very little waste of electricity or ozone production.

All 'Corona wires' in copiers will produce ozone, if it arcs out you get much more ozone... and the copier stops working correctly.

Ozone can also smell a bit like rancid cat pee...

Bit long and prolly very boring...

Pete

A most novel and promising idea...

A most novel and promising idea...

Consumer level products from IKEA