Scythe S-Flex - Any Good?

acaurora · Post by **acaurora** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 3:59 pm

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/ ... 33af41f23c

Was looking at these, they have 3 different models. One spins SLOWER than the Nexus, but of course has less CFM. The link above is for the medium range one. Anyone have any thoughts/opinions/experiences with these?

frankgehry · Post by **frankgehry** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:49 pm

Scythe S-Flex = rebadged adda. The bearing is hyped as FDB and patented by sony, but is nothing more than a sintec sleeve clone - sintered metal sleeve bearing.

acaurora · Post by **acaurora** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:11 pm

frankgehry wrote:Scythe S-Flex = rebadged adda. The bearing is hyped as FDB and patented by sony, but is nothing more than a sintec sleeve clone - sintered metal sleeve bearing.

So is that a good or a bad thing? lol

xxx?

jwoolen01 · Post by **jwoolen01** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:14 pm

I've tried the 800rpm one, and I was not impressed at all. In free air, the fan had a whine as well as bearing chatter. I never even installed it in the system. The scythe df series fan I have was much better than the s-flex in my opinion. The df fan was close to the yate loon d12sl-12 fans that were once in my system, but the loonies were better.

acaurora · Post by **acaurora** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:26 pm

Okay. I think i'll just stick to my P180 that has all TriCools that cam ewith it as well as 2 x Nexus real silent 120's.

frankgehry · Post by **frankgehry** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:32 pm

It's neither good or bad - just overhyped. A yate loon or scythe df would be better and less expensive. Also search for globalwin ncb.

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:49 pm

Greetings,

I'll put in a vote for the Scythe DF model, and for the GlobalWin NCB (ceramic bearing) model. Both are around 1200-1300RPM at 12v.

dealerovska · Post by **dealerovska** » Mon May 01, 2006 2:28 am

jwoolen01 wrote:I've tried the 800rpm one, and I was not impressed at all.

maybe you got a monday sample from scythe

weelkes · Post by **weelkes** » Sun May 07, 2006 3:30 pm

frankgehry wrote:Scythe S-Flex = rebadged adda. The bearing is hyped as FDB and patented by sony, but is nothing more than a sintec sleeve clone - sintered metal sleeve bearing.

The two are not mutually exclusive. Most of the low-end FDB (e.g. Nidec's RM-D series) do use a sintered sleeve these days because it is a lower cost solution. Nevertheless, they are still FDBs and have all the typical advantages of long life and low noise. If it's not an FDB then Scythe is simply lying; perhaps this is what you meant?

Dan

frankgehry · Post by **frankgehry** » Sun May 07, 2006 5:11 pm

The term FDB is not very specific. It has been applied on this site to panaflo hydro-wave bearings, some hard drive bearings, and the scythe S-Flex. Panaflo uses a dynamic FDB with grooves that flow lubricant along the bearing length even when mounted horizontally. The sony FDB is a static sintered sleeve bearing with one bearing surface. The papst sintec is a sintered sleeve bearing with two bearing surfaces providing more stability. The service life of the S-Flex is less than either the panaflo or papst. I believe that some spcr readers have found that the scythe DF and globalwin ncb are quieter than the S-Flex. The S-Flex does not represent any new technology.

weelkes · Post by **weelkes** » Sun May 07, 2006 6:16 pm

frankgehry wrote:The term FDB is not very specific. It has been applied on this site to [cut for brevity] I believe that some spcr readers have found that the scythe DF and globalwin ncb are quieter than the S-Flex. The S-Flex does not represent any new technology.

No, it doesn't, you're quite right. You're also quite right to mention that everybody has variations on the FDB theme, but that it just what they are - variations on a theme. Ball bearing manufacturers like Minebea, Koyo Seiko and NSK all used to boast about their different technologies as well, but they were all just ball bearings at the end of the day. The significant issue is that the S-FLEX uses an FDB and lower noise, especially in consumer electronics applications, has been a (maybe "the") major reason for the entire HDD industry shifting to FDBs. In my meetings with Nidec and Minebea over the past 3-4 years they have pointed out many times that any modern FDB is quieter than a BB fan or can be made quieter for the same performance with far less effort, which is why HDD makers were prepared to swallow the extra cost.

Subjectively we may all draw different conclusions from actual use. All I can say is that installed at home in a quiet case in a quiet room, the S-FLEX at 800rpm generate so little noise that I have to put my head right next to the fan hole to hear them. To my ears they are significantly quieter than the other Antec and Scythe case fans I have, but these are turning at higher rpm and as far as I know they're also ball bearing fans...

With the S-FLEX I certainly don't hear any obvious high frequency sound such as tinniness, resonance or whining. Makes a kind of hhhhhhhhhsh noise.

Dan

Mark65 · Post by **Mark65** » Sun May 07, 2006 7:46 pm

I just returned an sflex (1200 rpm). last week. The ticking noise it made drove me nuts. I hope it was a defect and the new one they ship out is ok.

weelkes · Post by **weelkes** » Sun May 07, 2006 8:19 pm

Mark65 wrote:I just returned an sflex (1200 rpm). last week. The ticking noise it made drove me nuts. I hope it was a defect and the new one they ship out is ok.

Let's hope so - I was planning to get a 1200rpm model!

It would be interesting to see SPCR have a closer look at the range. That would give us some hard figures that might help inject some objectivity.

Dan

mk · Post by mk » Mon May 08, 2006 12:27 am

I have tested the S-FLEX series on my website and I was impressed. They have no bearing noise and sounds very smooth in my ears.

I just did a roundup with Nexus, Yate Loon, Papst and Scythe and Nexus and Scythe comes out on top.

Sound level is measured at different RPM and at 12, 9, 7 and 5 volt. It is in danish but the tables pretty much explains them self. It is the most accurate noise measurement of thees fans that I know of.

Check it out here

McBanjo · Post by **McBanjo** » Mon May 08, 2006 12:59 am

I'm very satisfied with my 2 S-FLEX E. I could barely hear them from 1dm in free air at 12V.
It doesn't seem to raise much in the case either

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Mon May 08, 2006 2:42 am

I just did a roundup with Nexus, Yate Loon, Papst and Scythe and Nexus and Scythe comes out on top.

Shame they are both so expensive. Here in the UK you can't get a Nexus 120mm for less than Â£16 and the Scythe S-flex is >Â£23, whereas the Yate Loon 120mm is less than Â£10 from Silencio on Ebay.

weelkes · Post by **weelkes** » Mon May 08, 2006 4:32 am

jaganath wrote:Shame they are both so expensive. Here in the UK you can't get a Nexus 120mm for less than Â£16 and the Scythe S-flex is >Â£23, whereas the Yate Loon 120mm is less than Â£10 from Silencio on Ebay.

That *is* expensive. In Akihabara I think I paid 1400 yen for the 800rpm S-FLEX which is roughly 7-8 quid!

Dan

BillyBuerger · Post by **BillyBuerger** » Mon May 08, 2006 6:14 am

mk wrote:I have tested the S-FLEX series on my website and I was impressed. They have no bearing noise and sounds very smooth in my ears.

I just did a roundup with Nexus, Yate Loon, Papst and Scythe and Nexus and Scythe comes out on top.

Sound level is measured at different RPM and at 12, 9, 7 and 5 volt. It is in danish but the tables pretty much explains them self. It is the most accurate noise measurement of thees fans that I know of.

Check it out here

Does the '-' mean not measurable as in silent? Just by looking at the tables, it would seem the Yate loon would be the best. At similar RPMs, all fans have mostly the same dB rating. Yate Loon and Nexus have the lowest dB at 750 rpm. And the Yate loon is the only one you have shown with a '-' at greater than 700 rpm. The tables don't tell the story as far as any subjective noise though. Could you give some more info on why they Scythe come out on top?

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Mon May 08, 2006 7:36 am

That *is* expensive. In Akihabara I think I paid 1400 yen for the 800rpm S-FLEX which is roughly 7-8 quid!

Dan

You wouldn't by any chance be interested in setting up an import/export business for deserving SPCRer's now would you?

Mark65 · Post by **Mark65** » Mon May 08, 2006 10:18 am

Expensive for sure,,, atleast for me. with shiping and return shiping this fans gonna cost me 30 bucks. Oh well,, live and learn I guess

Tephras · Post by **Tephras** » Mon May 08, 2006 12:21 pm

jaganath wrote:Shame they are both so expensive. Here in the UK you can't get a Nexus 120mm for less than Â£16 and the Scythe S-flex is >Â£23, whereas the Yate Loon 120mm is less than Â£10 from Silencio on Ebay.

I think it's somewhat strange that the price on some products can differ so much between european countries, in Scandinavia you can get the Nexus for 9-10Â£ and the S-Flex costs 11-12Â£.

mk · Post by mk » Mon May 08, 2006 4:09 pm

BillyBuerger wrote:Does the '-' mean not measurable as in silent?

Yes the background noise at night is 14 - 15 dB(A). We can not measure any lower than that. All fans are practically silent at 14 dB(A) since a very quiet bedroom is around 14 dB(A)

BillyBuerger wrote:Just by looking at the tables, it would seem the Yate loon would be the best. At similar RPMs, all fans have mostly the same dB rating. Yate Loon and Nexus have the lowest dB at 750 rpm. And the Yate loon is the only one you have shown with a '-' at greater than 700 rpm.

The difference if no more than 1 dB(A) and since the measuring accuracy is + / - 1 dB(A) it is not enough to really stand out.

BillyBuerger wrote:The tables don't tell the story as far as any subjective noise though. Could you give some more info on why they Scythe come out on top?

All the fans tested are really good fans when it comes to acoustic noise. What the tables don't show is vibration and overall smoothness. All fans was suspended in rubber bans during the test to avoid measuring vibration induced noise.

Picture from the article explaining the test method

When Nexus and Scythe comes out on top it is simply because they are smooth and has little vibration. The Papst fans has small clicking sounds and vibrates more than the other fans.

The Yate Loon is very similar to the Nexus but is not sold in Denmark that is why it is not among the winners. Otherwise it would have been. If you get a good sample it matches the Nexus.

Mark65 · Post by **Mark65** » Thu May 11, 2006 9:22 pm

Ive tried 2 sflex 1200 rpm fans,,both make an audible clicking sound. I cant use em. I managed to find 3 yates for $18.00 shiped, I hope I have better luck with these.

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Fri May 12, 2006 6:51 am

The Yate Loon is very similar to the Nexus but is not sold in Denmark that is why it is not among the winners. Otherwise it would have been.

I'm pretty sure Silencio ships to Denmark, but of course technically you are right, the Yate Loon is 'sold' from Germany.

Mark65 · Post by **Mark65** » Thu May 18, 2006 6:10 pm

Just thought I would update my findings about my sflex. It seems they dont like PWM much. Running a straight 12v is the way to go. Or even a non PWM fan controler im guessing. Im happy with it now. Quietest fan in my p 180 now. Have 2 more on order.

GHz · Post by **GHz** » Fri May 19, 2006 7:47 am

I was working on a fan review but I never had time to finish it. Here are some of my notes regarding the Scythe S-FLEX series:

[quote]SUBJECTIVE TESTING

Spin Test â€“ Moderate bearing noise: intermittent â€œshhâ€

EndoSteel · Post by **EndoSteel** » Sat May 20, 2006 11:09 am

frankgehry
Scythe S-Flex = rebadged adda
As it turned out, Scythe S-Flex = rebadged Sony Airflex

.

Link

These were originally used to cool plasma panels and were not intended to be sold to anyone outside Sony - that's why so little is known about them.

frankgehry · Post by **frankgehry** » Fri May 26, 2006 12:06 pm

The only thing that Sony owns is the the s-flex trademark. As far as the bearing, a patent has been applied for, but it is still a basic sintered metal sleeve bearing. These are simply pressed powdered metal cylinders that support the blade assembly shaft. Sintered metal is very porous and can contain as much as 30% oil. There is no mention of the magnets that are supposed to stabilize one end of the shaft. Isn't that also part of the Sony invention? This idea seems to infringe on the principle used in Sunon Maglev fans and that didn't go very far.

As a marketing document, the idea seems to be that Sony had previously not made there superior fan technology available to other manufacturers to maintain their competitive advantage, but now anyone can buy a fan and take advantage of Sony technology. There are only a few fan manufacturers and I seriously doubt that Sony actually manufactures any part of the Scythe fans. Would Volvo start making knives?

This photo is from the madshrimp fan roundup and shows the scythe s-flex frame and blade assembly.

This photo is from the madshrimp fan roundup and shows the adda dustproof frame and blade assembly. As far as I can tell, the scythe and adda assemblies are identical. The Sony bearing looks very similar to the adda fdb bearing, but who knows what is actually inside the motor housing. Does adda even make their own bearings?

weelkes · Post by **weelkes** » Sat May 27, 2006 3:50 am

frankgehry wrote:it is still a basic sintered metal sleeve bearing

You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about this; after all any FDB is ultimately just metal and oil! How does the S-Flex bearing you've so described differ to the widely used Nidec RM-type fluid dynamic bearings? The short answer is that it doesn't. Both are FDBs. If you were being reductionist you could call an FDB a type of sleeve bearing, but this completely misses the point. It's a very long way in terms of performance from the old-style bearingless sleeve of the sort used on a low-end brush motor.

Using a sintered metal part does not mean that these are magically no longer FDBs. They are simply FDBs that have progressed to using lower cost processes. The end result is still an FDB and it still performs like an FDB and Nidec's customers are using them in droves - including in drives designed with quiet consumer electrics applications in mind (e.g. DVD recorders). Use of sintered parts does not mean an inferior quality product.

Dan

EndoSteel · Post by **EndoSteel** » Sat May 27, 2006 10:11 am

frankgehry
As far as I can tell, the scythe and adda assemblies are identical.
The fans look identical, but specs differ.

Does adda even make their own bearings?
They have their own version of a sealed sleeve bearing called 'hypro'. And older Scythe fans, which were indeed addas, had 'hypro' written on them.