Help on reducing vibration of one fan [large pics]

aSASa · Post by **aSASa** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:13 am

I was hoping I could put a fan below my GPU fan, since it would cool it better and I could overclock more, but either the case or fan -- or something else? -- is vibrating when it sits on the mesh.

Here's a look at the mesh, fan, and GPU: ( Sorry for the blur, I didn't set the distance setting )

And here's a look at the overall case to see what I'm working around: ( Very shiny, heh, had one of those lights than you can move around facing at it )

widowmaker · Post by **widowmaker** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:30 am

Snake pit.

I would start off by cleaning up the wires as they definately restrict airflow. If you're into overclocking then you should also look into an aftermarket cooling solution. That would reduce noise, lower temps, and as a result, higher clocks. Using 12cm fans instead of smaller ones would reduce noise as well as increase airflow.

aSASa · Post by **aSASa** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:45 am

Thanks--

Yeah, lol, I know. I just got the case a few weeks ago and set it up with all the new parts. No cable management has been done ( Which, BTW, I have no clue how to do ), and those fans are from my old case

Currently, I have many other things to buy before a GPU aftermarket cooler

[ about $430 worth ( New CPU cooler, 5x Slipstreams, new HDD, and 850 watt PSU ), heh ]

I tried those rubber things on the bottom, and that got rid of about 40% or so of the buzz, but most is still there. This fan does do a pretty nice amount of cooling, too. I can have the GPU fan at 40% [ Inaudible ] + that fan [ Quiet without the buzz ] and have the GPU at about 40C idle.

jhhoffma · Post by **jhhoffma** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:02 am

aSASa,

You may want to poke around the General Gallery to see how cabling should be done (called "Cablegami"). Using the blank space under the motherboard tray and other nooks and crannies plus smart wiring practices to keep cable clutter to a minimum will help airflow immensely.

I would second widowmaker's suggestion on an aftermarket heatsink, particularly if you are overclocking, along with allowing the use of larger fans as they will push the same amount of air while running slower and quieter.

IsaacKuo · Post by **IsaacKuo** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:19 am

That is a lot of fans, there! I'm amazed you can even hear the difference, with that one extra fan.

To reduce the vibration, you can first try manually lifting the fan a little bit so it doesn't contact anything but your hand. This will confirm that the vibration problem is due to vibration transmission to that grill.

Assuming that's the problem, you'll have to come up with a better mounting system than those four rubber washers. They're transmitting too much vibration. One option is to use some string or twist-ties to hang the fan underneath the video card.

widowmaker · Post by **widowmaker** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:56 am

If you are planning on purchasing a new psu, that should help with the cable management. Go for something modular like a Corsair HX520 or if you really think you need more then go for the Hx650 or HX1000. I don't see why you would need such a high powered psu though. An HX520 should do nicely.

This reminds me of a tip I heard from an OEM system builder. He said that the PSU is the most important component in any computer. It's quite true too. If your psu fails, it could potentially take down every other component connected to it. I've worked at Apple for a year and have seen this happen literally everyday. Someone would send in their Mac's PSU for repair and along with it, their fried motherboard.

aSASa · Post by **aSASa** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:25 pm

Thanks for all the help everyone -- sorry for the delay, tornado spotting near by, etc etc --

@ jhhoffma: Thanks, I'll look for that. I knew about routing behind, but it seems hard, and if I had a new mobo, couldn't I lose some of the screw holders?

Also, my budget, currently, holds nothing for a new GPU Cooler - reason stated right above your current post.

@ IsaacKuo: Heh, they are all pretty silent. Its a very very high pitched vibration, and I think that's why I notice it so much. I have double checked, and it is the transferring from the fan through the washers onto the grate.

I wouldn't be sure how to hang someone from a video card, though. Care to explain how? Anything that can burn is definitely not going to work, since the GPU has hit 80C ( When I have the fan low and play something like Crysis ) and the PCB is hot to the touch.

@ Widowmaker: I really don't have the money for a modular PSU :/. I currently have a cheap 530 watt, and that would make me definetely not choose anything lower. I want a decent improvement to atleast 750 watts, but anything modular around their is crazy priced. I'm aiming for under $160.

From a PSU calculator, my future system [ I know, its not perfect, should be +/- 10% though ] was rated at 756 watts.

I know the psu is important, and thats another reason I want to get a decent quality one such as the CM Real Power Pro 850 Watt ( Say what you want, reviews give it 4-5 out of 5 stars because its pretty silent and very stable )

EDIT: Oh, and in the mean time I did a pathetic attempt at cable management. Its a tad better, with some moved up to above my DVD/CD RW drive, and a lot still hanging between the hard drive and motherboard area. Couldn't do much about that.

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:00 pm

From a PSU calculator, my future system [ I know, its not perfect, should be +/- 10% though ] was rated at 756 watts.

I would bet significant amounts of my own money that your new rig will use less than 400w. you're using a Q9450 and 8800GTS, right? even with overclocking it's almost impossible to break 400W. now, if you want to waste your money and get a high-powered PSU just for e-penis reasons, be my guest. Corsair HX620 is roughly $160.

oh, as for the vibrating fan, see if you have some foam lying around (the sort that comes with hard drives), cut it into little chunks and put that beneath the fan, it will stop the vibration.

widowmaker · Post by **widowmaker** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:47 pm

How are you possibly calculating 756W? Did you hook up a deep fryer to your computer that you didn't tell us about?

I don't think even SLI with a couple 9800GTX's could use that much power. I have an Athlon X2 6400+ and an BFG 8800GT OC2 and I'm thinking my HX520 is overkill. The psu fan is supposed to ramp up under high load but all the ramping up I get only gets me an inaudible increase in psu noise. This means it's not even operating close to max wattage while under load. I've always been skeptical of power consumption calculators, but that's just me.

You could also look around in the general gallery forum and check out other peoples' setups and see what psu works for them. That will give you an idea if it's overkill.

Skirge01 · Post by **Skirge01** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:00 pm

Okay, so, if you're looking to save money, then I sincerely think that some serious cable management is in order. Also, how many fans can your case support... actually mounted, that is!

I'd make sure that you have nearly identical flow into the case and out of the case, from the bottom up. Then, clean up that rat's nest so the fans can do their jobs. You'll be utterly amazed at what good cable management can do for you! You'll probably find that you need FEWER, LARGER fans pushing more CFM and, in turn, they'll be quieter.

Seriously, look at some posts regarding how to route your cables. Patience is the key and being willing to REMOVE the mobo to route everything properly under it, even just at the corners. Get some long cables if the ones you already have won't allow you to route them the ideal way.

Treat the CAUSE, not the side effect. The reason you feel the need for those little fans is due to poor airflow.

Keep us posted and feel free to post pictures of your progress. I'm sure we'd be able to give some cable routing tips!

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:08 pm

Hello,

Your case should look at least as good as this:

[Edit: Please notice that there are just 3 fans: 1 in the PSU, 1 exhaust, and 1 intake (because the 1 HD runs warm). This is an Athlon 64 X2 4200+ with dual 7600GS video cards.]

aSASa · Post by **aSASa** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:28 pm

@ Jaganath, I was actually counting in 2x 9800GX2s, 2 SATA HDDs, one SSD, a Q9450 @ 3.8GHz, a ton of fans, and a lot of other stuff.. so it adds up

.

@ Widowmaker: I could try, heh. The NB itself is essentially a deep fryer.

@ Skirge: 9 fans [ 5 120mm, and 4 60-140mm fans ]. I will hopefully get some pics tomorrow. I'm actually using my Mom's camera, which she does not want me using since it is very expensive, and shes sleeping right now an d its in her room... so I hope I can get it tomorrow morning. Again, I did attempt at some cable management and removed the GPU fan for now, for two reasons: Noise + requires me to get another cable which would add a ton more clutter.

@NeilBlanchard: It's nearly there

.

Skirge01 · Post by **Skirge01** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:22 pm

9 fans [ 5 120mm, and 4 60-140mm fans ]

WOW! That's a pretty large number of case fans. Which case are you using?

My thought is that if you have the right number of fans both taking in and expelling close CFMs, then you should achieve a good balance of cool and somewhat quiet pretty easily.

Remember that, in most circumstances, cool air should be coming in the bottom-front of the case, with hot air expelled at the top/rear of the case. But, that air needs to be able to pass through the rest of the case and REACH those top, rear fans. If there's a ton of cables blocking airflow, then you'll have more air coming in than you can expel and you'll have heat building up inside the case.

Without knowing your case, I'm thinking 2 large fans at the bottom-front and 2 at the top/rear of the case... to start (not counting the CPU fan). Clean up the rat's nest, crank up those 4 fans to the max and see what kind of temps you're getting. Cleaning that mess of cables is absolutely key to all of this, though!

This will take some trial and error and you'll be rearranging things several times, but I'm sure you'll be much happier with the results.

Just to give you an idea of what's possible, check out my own build log of an HTPC I put together over the winter. While it's not a mid or full tower case, you can certainly see what's possible with some time and effort put into cable management!

aSASa · Post by **aSASa** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:32 pm

Hey again;

Thanks for the response.

I have a Cooler Master Stacker 830 EVO.

Tomorrow I will sincerely try to get the pictures of my case after the little management I tried. For about 10 mins and just using stuff I could find in my room to hold the cables in place, I think I did pretty well.

I will read your, eh... thing. Topic? Not sure what to call it. Brain fart.

angelkiller · Post by **angelkiller** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:41 pm

aSASa wrote:I will read your, eh... thing. Topic? Not sure what to call it. Brain fart.

Thread.

Now about your system. First, fix that cabeling. You said you did, so I'll wait for pics.

Second take the fans off the VRM, the NB, the memory, and under the GPU. The VRM and NB have giant heatsinks. I doubt they need extra cooling. The RAM doesn't need to be cooled. If you're running some insane RAM speed (ie DDR2-1000+), don't. It barely helps anything. Why is there a fan under the GPU? The GPU is in a shroud and has its own fan. I don't see how a fan blowing onto another fan helps anything. The stock GPU cooler's fan can move air without the help of another fan.

Third, get a new CPU cooler. Luckily this is on your to-do list. Fourth, change the fans. (Slipstream 1200rpm imo) Don't get an 850W PSU. Are you seriously planning a Quad SLI system? If not get a good 500W PSU. (eg Corsair 520HX) Use the saved money to get an Arctic Cooling S1 for your GPU.

Do that and you'll have a decently quiet PC. And no vibrating fan.

aSASa · Post by **aSASa** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:59 pm

Heh, right, thread

.

Cables:
Again; It to me appears to be poorly done, but its still better than before[ the cabling ]. So I'll see your opinion tomorrow.

Memory fan:
The memory is running at DDR2 800 3-3-3-9. The heatsinks on it get very hot after an hour or two without fans. With a fan, its at most warm. I had instability issues before and I needed to put the voltage to 2.2V. With a fan I can run it stably at 2.00V.

NB Fan:
Oh, believe me, this is necessary. The NB and SB get so hot that if you touch them, you would go OW!!! The NB cools pretty well [ -5C after 5 mins, -12C after an hour ] and the SB does too [ -4C after 5 mins, -7C after an hour ] This is compared to it without the fan.

GPU Fan:
This lowers the idle temperature by 3C after about 30 mins and in loads about 8 or 9C. This way, I can feel safe with the GPU fan at an inaudible 40-50% fan speed.

CPU Cooler
Yeah, I plan on the HDT-S1283 because of its cheapness + decent quality.

Fans:
Don't worry, I have them on my list as well. For the case fans I am getting the 1200RPM and the CPU fan the 1900RPM. Yes, I do know, CRAZY, right? Well, since I can undervolt it [ @ 7V its extremely quieter, and I can go even lower with speedfan ] I will be fine. *HOPEFULLY*

Power Supply:
I know its completely unnecessary, but for the price increase over the 4-600 watt PSUs, I find it worth it. The CM 850 is said to be high quality and silent. Also efficient. My planned future system required around 750 watts at 100% load and 10% aging of the PSU. I don't want issues, heh.

GPU Cooling:
I actually plan on either the Accelero S1 or an HR-03GT, but thats not going to be until I manage $431 for stuff. In order of when I buy it [ AKA, once I get the cash for it, first to last ]

1.$90.02 - Scythe Slipstream 1200-1900RPM x 5 + Xigmatek HDT-S1283
2.$65.98 - 4GB ( 2x2GB ) Memory DDR2 800
3.$171.30 - Cooler Master 850 Watt Power Supply
4.$109.99 - Samsung F1 750GB Hard Drive
5.$60 - Antec Tri-Cool + HR-03 GT

~Thanks for your help!~

jhhoffma · Post by **jhhoffma** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:52 am

The reason you're finding better temps with more fan is because your airflow is all messed up. Too many fans blowing in too many directions...bad idea. When you get the new heatsink, you'll have a bunch of options open to you. Chief among them will be a duct for the CPU/VRMs to the exhaust fan. That will eliminate 2 fans, maybe 3 if you can run your CPU passive (unlikely with any quad-core).

If you have intakes in the front of your case as well, you can try to create another duct to separate the video card from the rest of the case and use the bottom intake for cool air for it and intake air from the front for the rest of the PC. It's not easy and will require much better cable routing, but it's doable. And remember, the fewer fans you use, the fewer cables you have to route!!

[edit]I just noticed Skirge01's first post which my post echoes...cabling is the place to start, not buying new hardware. You'd be surprised how much a little bit of good airflow makes over a lot of bad airflow.[/edit]

aSASa · Post by **aSASa** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:19 am

Yeah, I figured my airflow is screwed up.

Heres the after pics. I know, its blurry. Was in a rush to not get caught taken pictures, and ended up blurring everything I wanted it to not blur [ focused on near by stuff ].

Overall [ Still sucks, even after trying to optimize this PoS camera. ]

Closer [ Needed flash to even be mildly clear ]

Where the Cables Went [ Looked a lot better on the camera screen :/ ]

Skirge01 · Post by **Skirge01** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:33 pm

Definitely a step in the right direction!!! I would still work on routing the cables even further out of the way, along and under the motherboard tray. If you're overclocking, you need as much free airflow as possible. Again, though, HUGE improvement already!

Run Speedfan and see what kind of temps you're getting before making any further changes. Check CPU, GPU, hard drive, and system temps at both system idle and under load.

Do you have a fan in front of the hard drive at the bottom of the case? I'm assuming that blue glow is due to a fan.

Assuming you do, I'm thinking that you need another fan on the side panel (looking at the pictures you provided, it'd be the lower-right position), blowing INTO the case. Those 2, combined with the fan behind the CPU blowing out, plus the PSU fan sucking air out the case, should give you a fairly equal balance of airflow.

Now, for the time being, remove all the other additional fans you have installed and crank up the 3 fans I just mentioned to the max. I'd also suggest completely removing those 2 NB/VRM fans, as was already suggested by angelkiller. They may actually be impeding your airflow.

Check Speedfan temps again and see what has changed, then report back.

This is where the time and patience piece comes in! You'll be doing a little trial and error to determine where the hot spots are.

I do agree with the others that you need to replace the CPU heatsink, preferably with a big tower like the Thermalrights and a good fan attached to it at some point. The HDT-S1283 you mentioned sounds like it'll work just fine, too. I'd have it blowing out the back of the case, not toward the PSU.

thejamppa · Post by **thejamppa** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:12 pm

Cabling starts look good. You could see if you can get cable wrap. Its increadibly good when you can bundle several cords into one tight wrap without using zipties. Generally cable wrap gives more finished look and in my experience is excellent way to keep cables in neat, tight bundles.

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:12 pm

Hello,

As others have said, it is improved. But, you still have way too many fans for this to be very quiet:

(2) in the PSU (80mm and 92mm right?)
120mm rear exhaust
Stock (70mm?) Intel
(2) blowers on VRMs
(2) 80mm "Stealth" (on RAM?) -- these are not quiet
GPU blower

Is there an intake fan(s)?

That's 9 (at least), maybe 10 or 11?

Compare this to my machine with just 3 fans -- and the rear exhaust only runs some of the time! My front intake is only there because one HD (of three) runs warm.

What do the fan and intake grills look like?

tehcrazybob · Post by **tehcrazybob** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:09 pm

aSASa wrote:Memory fan:
The memory is running at DDR2 800 3-3-3-9. The heatsinks on it get very hot after an hour or two without fans. With a fan, its at most warm. I had instability issues before and I needed to put the voltage to 2.2V. With a fan I can run it stably at 2.00V.

Even if you need a voltage boost to run stably, I don't think the fan will prove necessary. At the moment, you have fans all over the place disrupting the natural airflow in the case. If you remove the unneccessary ones, the airflow may improve to the point where the RAM can run happily with no dedicated fan.

aSASa wrote:NB Fan:
Oh, believe me, this is necessary. The NB and SB get so hot that if you touch them, you would go OW!!! The NB cools pretty well [ -5C after 5 mins, -12C after an hour ] and the SB does too [ -4C after 5 mins, -7C after an hour ] This is compared to it without the fan.

My northbridge heatsink is too hot to touch, but my computer is still totally stable. Also, if your fans are only getting you an improvement of a few degrees, they are probably unneccessary.

aSASa wrote:GPU Fan:
This lowers the idle temperature by 3C after about 30 mins and in loads about 8 or 9C. This way, I can feel safe with the GPU fan at an inaudible 40-50% fan speed.

One of your first purchases should be an Accelero S1, so your video card will no longer be a source of noise - an S1 with no fan at all will cool better than most stock GPU coolers do at 50-75% fan speed.

aSASa wrote:Power Supply:
I know its completely unnecessary, but for the price increase over the 4-600 watt PSUs, I find it worth it. The CM 850 is said to be high quality and silent. Also efficient. My planned future system required around 750 watts at 100% load and 10% aging of the PSU. I don't want issues, heh.

The PSU calculator you've been using is terrible, and routinely overestimates systems by as much as 100%. For example, it estimates my computer at 261 watts, while my Kill-a-Watt tells me it uses 157. Apply the 80% efficiency of my PSU, and my system draws only 125 watts DC. That's almost exactly half of what the calculator guessed. You should instead be using this calculator: http://web.aanet.com.au/SnooP/psucalc.php

aSASa · Post by **aSASa** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:03 pm

Hi again;

@ Skirge;

Thanks, good to know I did decent

. I really don't know where else to move them without cutting holes :/. Any ideas?

Speed fan has no config for my motherboard [ Striker II Formula ] so it's hard to know what is what, and believe me, I've tried. The best I can get out of it is the CPU temps. Then I could use EVGA Precision for GPU temps and Asus AI Suite for system temps.

Yes, I have the stock Stacker 830 fan right there. The airflow is VERY weak, worse than that of the 80mm stealths [ probably due to a meshed door, then a meshed 5.25" thing with a dust filter after the metal mesh ]. The exhaust fan, though, is strong and its also stock with the case.

I have tried adding the fans on the side, but, 80mm fans which are all I have for now are so crappy that the case [ Designed for 60-140mm on the side ] won't work easy at all and vibrate a lot. *Due to poor installation* ]

Although the two fans might be impeding airflow [ Which I pretty much would say is minuscule at most, since the intake fan, again, is weak from the start ], they are keeping the temperatures lower. The NB, I know, is supposed to run hot. BUT, this individual motherboard has issues at passive from some reviews and causes BSODs ( To some ) without any airflow on it. I have been having BSODs every once in a while [ Probably from a million other things though ], but I want to be safe. I don't want a $300 mobo dying on me.

------------------------

@ Thejamppa;

Thanks. Besides looking better, is there any real use? I know that that it looks great, but.. well, since I plan on screwing with my system for a while longer I don't see it being useful.

--------------------------------

@ NeilBlanchard;

PSU; since I can't see my system right now, I would have to guess, and I would say two 80mm's.

Then the intake and exhaust are 120mm.

Intel is something like that, but it really is pretty quiet.

Two [ semi-silent + extremely strong ] VRM coolers, yep.

And last, yep, two loud Stealth fans.

Then the GPU is something around 60mm. Its 45DB at max and 20CFM.

I will get pics of the grills.

--------------------------

@ tehcrazybob;

I really want it to last long though :/. The warranty does cover the 2.2V, but its just an eyesore and hardly damaging to airflow. I figure the fan on the memory is useful.

Mentioned the NB earlier, and it has instability issues for many without fans. Not sure if it will be for me, too, but I'd rather not have to worry about it.

Again, I might when I get the cash. This stock cooler though is quite good, and many people say its not even worth getting a new one. Inaudible at 40%, and its not bad temps either.

Lastly, that PSU calculator [ Which I had to change on a few things since it doesn't have everything exactly ] gave 705 watts. Hah, so, with the exact items I would have to imagine another 50-100 watts or so. The PSU calculator I used couldn't have been too bad, then. Probably quite accurate, actually.

Cistron · Post by **Cistron** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:02 pm

About your quad-SLI: I would wait a bit, since new GPUs are released this summer.

aSASa · Post by **aSASa** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:52 am

Yeah, I know. I don't plan on 9800GX2's.

Waiting for something like GTX280x2

Skirge01 · Post by **Skirge01** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:56 am

Get some temp readings however you can, just so you have something to compare to each time you make a change. Speedfan just happens to be the most common tool. Without something to gauge the temperatures, you have no way of knowing whether the changes are having an improvement or actually making things worse.

thejamppa · Post by **thejamppa** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:00 pm

aSaSa:

Now I'd recomend hold your horse with GT280 as nVidia will release DieShrink version of it in few months after GT280. That will run cooler and takes less juices.

About your NB and Mosfet fans, I was under impression that Asus recomended using those with passive or water cooling... As your have stock intel cooler there should be plenty overflow for them.

aSASa · Post by **aSASa** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:25 pm

@ Skirge; Okay, I'll get some, don't worry

.

@ TheJamppa; Well, thanks for the warning. I wasn't planning on buying them for awhile, anyway, but the warning is still appreciated. Not sure about the Mosfet and NB fans though. I can definitely "feel" the difference. Whether its helping or not I do not know. [ Besides the NB + SB temp readings in the BIOS. ]

And someone [ no offense to the asked, I just can't remember who

] asked for images of the mesh or something. Here they are:

Once again, these pictures suck. Its supposed to be a camera for people who shake a lot [ PowerShot A570 IS AiAF ].. but its really bad for computer pictures! [ my mom does ebay, and her clothes pictures are just amazingly detailed ]

Top:

Can't see it, but this too has the dust filters used on the side, except a tad bigger.

Side:

And theres a side panel thing to hold fans, with dust filters like the ones on the front as well, except.. well, square

Front:

EDIT: NEW QUESTION AS WELL:

I've read that the Stacker 832 can hold the Ultra 120's / larger heatsinks like the HDT-S1283 by removing just one fan off the bracket while on the other hand the 830 need the side fan bracket removed completely? Is this true?