Looking for reasonably quiet 92mm 2500 RPM fan

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Placid
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Looking for reasonably quiet 92mm 2500 RPM fan

Post by Placid » Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:59 pm

When it comes to silencing, slow fans are our ideal choice, when we can afford to lose cooling power. SPCR have a wealth of information on low speed fans, but there's not much when it comes to fans at higher speeds. Right now, a slow fan just won't cut it.

I'm looking for a reasonably quiet 92mm 2500 RPM fan (2600 RPM is also acceptable). My intention is to replace my replacement PSU fan (see my thread on the buzzing Rexus Panaflo viewtopic.php?t=49883). Although I would prefer sleeve bearing, the mounting orientation is not the best for sleeve, so I'll consider ball or other alternatives.

If you know of an appropriate fan and where I can find one, please let me know.

whiic
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Post by whiic » Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:13 am

Could the ticking be due to PWM control from within PSU? The fan you're replacing is a PSU fan, right?

Some otherwise non-ticking fans may make a ticking noise when driven with low-frequency PWM. Most modern motherboards use high-freq PWM but old mobos and most PSUs (probably even new ones) use low-freq. Try what kind of noise your original fan makes if you bypass PSUs fan control circuitry and offer it a constant undervolted power... like 7V or 5V.

Or did it tick without PWM as well?

The only 92mm I have experience with is Jamicon JF0925B1M. Never seen Jamicons on computer store shelves (I bought it from DIY electronics store) but this fan is actually quite decent when undervolted to 3.6 to 5.0 volts.
http://www.jamicon.com.tw/pdf/fan/JF0925-00.pdf
Ball-bearing 2500rpm 12V.

I have two 80mm Jamicons and one 120mm Jamicon as well. 120mm Jamicon sucks and ticks, the smaller ones undervolt much better. I'll probably do some noise testing with the 80mm fans to determine if they're usable for the box case build I'm about to do.

That 120mm Jamicon of mine won't be used for quiet cooling. I bolted it into a Nidec Beta V industrial fan (24v) since they have different rotation directions. Running them both this way creates a highly turbulent but highly directional airflow on high CFM... and like airplanes with counter-rotating propellers, this also makes much noise.

Placid
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Post by Placid » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:28 am

whiic wrote:Could the ticking be due to PWM control from within PSU?
The PSU does not have PWM. I have been able to confirm that the buzzing is caused by the fan itself buy connecting it to other power sources and undervolting it with a fanmate. So it buzzes no matter where I connect it.
whiic wrote:The fan you're replacing is a PSU fan, right?
I'm trying to replace the unsatisfactory Rexus Panaflow which had replaced the original PSU fan.

Placid
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Post by Placid » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:25 pm

Um, wow. I can imagine the tumbleweed passing by.

I guess almost everyone here haven't tried mid-speed fans? If I could, I'd go low, but that would seriously compromise this particular setup. The cooler weather is beginning to creep in, causing the fan to buzz more. Is there a better fan, or a better solution?

neumein
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Post by neumein » Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:07 am

Does your power supply actually _need_ 2500rpm? Unless you have the system running 100% percent output all the time, or if the machine is used for some mission critical application maybe, but I'd be willing to put in a 1500 or lower rpm fan, and let the psu run that couple of degrees warmer.

Placid
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Post by Placid » Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:07 pm

Yes, it does run close to its max. I really want to keep it as cool as possible without getting too loud. The original fan was a screaming 2850 RPM!!! 2500 RPM would be the best compromise. The fan spends most of its time at about 1500-2000 RPM, but during summer, or when gaming, I need the extra RPM.

The OEM's thermal design of the system was inefficient, and that required high RPM in the PSU. Of course, I implemented numerous improvements over the original thermal design. That allowed me to cut down on RPM (PSU can still run hot unfortunately). As much as I want to buy a new PSU, it is not an option due to the non-standard design of the system, and replacement parts are hard to come by. Most silencers are willing to compromise life of the components for low noise. I need the PSU to last, so I'm playing it safe.
Last edited by Placid on Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

matcote
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Post by matcote » Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:06 pm

This one is PWM, but with a little mod it is probably the best solution : http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku= ... ure=Scythe

Placid
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Post by Placid » Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:47 pm

I assume the orange wire is for the PWM signal? So if I leave it out, it should still spin? Getting that to connect to the PSU is out of my means at the moment. And it's sleeve bearing... not too good for horizontal orientation. I'll keep this on the side for now. Nexus also has one just like this, but with clear plastic.

I found 2 more 92mm 2500 RPM fans, but they seem very generic, and might be of low quality.
http://www.xoxide.com/92mm-ascent-highspaeed-fan.html
http://www.xoxide.com/92sunbalbear.html
Any experience with these?

Newegg, in addition to the 92mm 2450 RPM Rexus Panaflo (this is the one that's buzzing in my PSU), there's also the 92mm 2500 RPM Aerocool, but it's sleeve bearing and has LEDs that's bound to flash when undervolted. When it comes to fans of this size and speed, there's very little to choose from.

confusion
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Post by confusion » Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:08 pm

The Delta AFB0212M runs at 2450 RPM and is a ball-bearing fan; their fans are high quality.

Delta has a reputation for noisy fans, but I think really that's because they are best known for high-speed/high-airflow fans used in servers etc.

I don't have the same standards for low noise as most posters here but I've found lower-speed Deltas to have a non-annoying noise character.

At any rate, this fan is available at ThermalFX:
http://store.thermalfx.com/merchant2/me ... ry_Code=92

Placid
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Post by Placid » Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:53 pm

Thanks, confusion! I'll check it out. I wasn't even aware that Delta make fans that slow (relatively speaking).

Child
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Post by Child » Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:53 am

You could also try the Enermax UCCL9 Cluster. Its a pwm Fan - but u can just leave the pwm-wire unconnected. Its not that fast spinning like 2500 rpm - but with its 2000 rpm it puts 38.30 CFM through. The mentioned Delta Fan achieves 43.79 CFM, which is not that far apart.

Placid
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Post by Placid » Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:34 am

confusion wrote:At any rate, this fan is available at ThermalFX:
http://store.thermalfx.com/merchant2/me ... ry_Code=92
I checked out the website. It seems that their fans are slightly overpriced. The end is bare lead, and adding a connector almost jumps the price to $10. Good find though, I'll keep this one in mind, but I would prefer better bearings like FDB, Hydro Wave, Hypro, etc.
Child wrote:You could also try the Enermax UCCL9 Cluster. Its a pwm Fan - but u can just leave the pwm-wire unconnected. Its not that fast spinning like 2500 rpm - but with its 2000 rpm it puts 38.30 CFM through. The mentioned Delta Fan achieves 43.79 CFM, which is not that far apart.
When heavy gaming, especially during the summer, I need the overhead afforded by 2500 RPM. 2000 might not be enough when things get toasty.

confusion
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Post by confusion » Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:54 pm

... but I would prefer better bearings like FDB, Hydro Wave, Hypro, etc.
Especially in a power supply, aren't ball bearings considered better and more reliable, though of course not quieter? I know that "server grade" supplies use ball-bearing fans from Delta, Nidec, NMB, etc.

Placid
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Post by Placid » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:11 pm

confusion wrote:Especially in a power supply, aren't ball bearings considered better and more reliable, though of course not quieter? I know that "server grade" supplies use ball-bearing fans from Delta, Nidec, NMB, etc.
True, ball bearings are more reliable at the cost of being noisier. But acoustics are also important, so modified sleeve bearings would be more preferable if a suitable model can be located.

Placid
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Post by Placid » Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:31 pm

Okay, after some more searching without much luck, I decided on getting the Delta AFB0912M 92mm 2450 RPM fan from confusion's suggestion.
Link to Delta AFB0912M 92mm 2450 RPM fan
It's not the best available, but if it replaces the buzzer, then it's all good.

I received the package a week ago, and went on to test it. Well, what do ya know, that bugger BUZZES too! To be sure, I tested it on another system, and it buzzes there. Doesn't matter where I plug it, molex, motherboard, fan controller, it buzzes. So went through customer service and sent it back for replacement.

ThermalFX received the returned fan, and said that they've tested it and it showed no sign of buzzing there. They said they'll send me a different one. Received the replacement fan today. Again, it too, buzzes.

Panaflo, Delta 1, Delta 2, they all buzz. The plot thickens. Having tried three fans without success, I am beginning to rule out sample variance as the culprit. The next possible suspect could be the PSU. But if the source is from PSU, then why don't any of the other fans buzz? It seems the buzzing only affects fans that are 92mm and 2450 RPM. Any ideas?
Last edited by Placid on Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Operandi
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Post by Operandi » Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:08 pm

Is the Delta buzzing like the Panaflos or is it bearing noise? If its buzzing from low freq PWM then it should be absent when you run it at full speed from 12v. Bearing noise will always be present.

I have a 80mm Sanyo Denki sitting on my Alpha heatsink, its by far the quietest ball baring fan I've ever used, also the most balanced. I have it controlled via PWM from my motherboard, speed varies between 1350 and 2500 RPM.

I see Thermal FX have some 92mm Sanyos, you could try this one Sanyo Link
Last edited by Operandi on Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Placid
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Post by Placid » Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:20 pm

Operandi wrote:Is the Delta buzzing like the Panaflos or is it bearing noise?
They're buzzing/hight rate of ticking, same as the Panaflo.
Operandi wrote:If its buzzing from low freq PWM then it should be absent when you run it at full speed from 12v.
To quote myself from the other thread, "The lower the voltage, the greater the buzz intensity, to the point that it would drive me crazy. Increasing the voltage would do the opposite. With the fan at full speed, the buzzing disappears entirely." This agrees with the first part of your explanation, but I don't have PWM. It's very puzzling, the fans will buzz from any source.
Operandi wrote:I have a 80mm Sanyo Denki sitting on my Alpha heatsink, its by far the quietest ball baring fan I've ever used, also the most balanced. I have it controlled via PWM from my motherboard, speed varies between 1350 and 2500 RPM.
The Sanyo you're referring to is 2850 RPM which is too much. That's why I sought to replace the original 2850 fan in the first place, and ended up with buzzing problems.

Let's review. Looking for a fan for a ~2500 RPM fan for PSU. Panflo and Delta 92mm 2450 RPM fans buzz, but all existing fans do not. Need to find out why and how to resolve it. Several posters suggest it could be due to PWM control. There's no PWM. So what else could cause a fan to buzz, but only affect 92mm 2450 RPM fans?

@Operandi, ThermalFX's links are too long, stretching this thread and requiring horizontal scrolling. I've edited my previous post and shortened the link, can you do the same? Thanks.[/i]

Operandi
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Post by Operandi » Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:53 pm

Placid wrote:Let's review. Looking for a fan for a ~2500 RPM fan for PSU. Panflo and Delta 92mm 2450 RPM fans buzz, but all existing fans do not. Need to find out why and how to resolve it. Several posters suggest it could be due to PWM control. There's no PWM. So what else could cause a fan to buzz, but only affect 92mm 2450 RPM fans?
Your sure the source isn't PWM, what are you controlling the fan with (sorry if I missed it)?

2800RPM is only 10% more than 2500, all things being equal neither fan would be significantly louder than the other. It would be even less of an difference once they are slowed down.

There isn't any specific to a 92mm fan that would make it more prone to buzz than a 80 or 120mm. Its possible one of the Deltas was defective or damaged but two seems highly unlikely, and ThermalFX said they checked them out.

Placid
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Post by Placid » Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:53 am

Operandi wrote:Your sure the source isn't PWM, what are you controlling the fan with (sorry if I missed it)?
The Panaflo is connected to and controlled by the PSU, and it isn't PWM based. It matters not where it's connected to, however. It will buzz if it's connected to the motherboard, or a molex, while undervolting it with a fanmate2. The fanmate2 certainly isn't PWM.
Operandi wrote: 2800RPM is only 10% more than 2500, all things being equal neither fan would be significantly louder than the other. It would be even less of an difference once they are slowed down.
I did notice a quite an improvement when I swapped out the 2850 for a 2450 (ignoring the buzzing from the 2450 of course), but that's just me I guess.
Operandi wrote: There isn't any specific to a 92mm fan that would make it more prone to buzz than a 80 or 120mm. Its possible one of the Deltas was defective or damaged but two seems highly unlikely, and ThermalFX said they checked them out.
Both Deltas buzzed when I tested them on a completely different computer. Could it be a freakishly similar isolated flaw in both PSUs?

pony-tail
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Post by pony-tail » Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:26 am

A remote possibility is that it is ripple in the 12v rail of that PSU .
Have you tested any of the fans on a different PSU ?
I have had low levels of ripple on two recent ( less thsn 6 months old ) Antec HE PSUs My Panaflo L1 fans picked it up straight away with a faint but audible growl That is not present on older PSUs . I have a friend who is a TV repairer who ( at his suggestion ) checked it on his test equipment including an oscilloscope and lo-and behold a 60hz ripple in the +12v lines ! The psu appears to work properly and has no issues with causing any kind of errors but 12v should be 12v not fluctuating from 11.6v to 12.2v on a 60hz cycle .

dhanson865
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Post by dhanson865 » Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:00 am

http://www.jab-tech.com/YATE-LOON-92mm- ... -3774.html

Maybe you should just punt and go for a 2300 RPM fan instead? At $4 + S&H it isn't much to risk.

Placid
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Post by Placid » Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:25 pm

pony-tail wrote:A remote possibility is that it is ripple in the 12v rail of that PSU .
Have you tested any of the fans on a different PSU ?
It's possible, although I don't have the equipment to check for that.
The fans are tested on two different PSUs.
dhanson865 wrote:http://www.jab-tech.com/YATE-LOON-92mm- ... -3774.html

Maybe you should just punt and go for a 2300 RPM fan instead? At $4 + S&H it isn't much to risk.
I came by that fan before, but I saw its dimensions are 90x90x25mm.

dhanson865
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Post by dhanson865 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:08 am

You don't have room for the 25mm thickness? It's the same thickness as 99% of the 92mm fans. As far as I know all the fans mentioned in this thread are that thickness.

I'm really confused why you didn't mention needing a nonstandard thickness earlier in the thread.

Or are you confused by the difference between 90mm and 92mm?

Placid
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Post by Placid » Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:11 pm

It was not the thickness that was the problem with that fan, it's the LxW. That fan is categorized as 92mm, but it's 90mm in the specs, unless I'm missing something here.

I think I should avoid buying more fans until the source of the buzzing can be found. I already have 2 replacements "that need replacement". That's $34 including shipping. With the shipping charges alone, I could buy 2 fans!

Can a cheap Radioshack multimeter be used detect any discrepancies in the PSU voltage?
Last edited by Placid on Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dhanson865
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Post by dhanson865 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:21 pm

Retailers and distributors get lazy on the nomenclature. There is no size difference between a 90mm fan and a 92mm fan. They are two names for the same product.

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Post by frankgehry » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:39 pm

You should look at this thread regarding panaflo models.

viewtopic.php?t=30373&highlight=panaflo

A rexus panaflo 7F06A73 -BX is unlikely to be quiet for a number of reasons. It's probably oem surplus stock, the chipset that provides rpm monitoring is not quiet, and a rexus is just a low spec panaflo.

Ball bearing yate loons are not quiet.

I have a delta 92x25mm low speed triple blade, but I wouldn't say it's especially quiet.

You need to get a panaflo L1A or M1A, or an nmb-mat ball bearing version from a source that sells retail models, and not oem stock. Another option would be a jmc. Go to jmcproducts.com to find a distributor.

Placid
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Post by Placid » Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:15 pm

Thanks for the info, frankgehry. The link branches off to more threads that branches some more. It was a good read.

I got my Panaflo from Newegg. Don't know where Newegg got theirs, but that matters little right now as buzzing is likely to be cause by something else.

Aris
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Post by Aris » Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:36 pm

i would suggest the scythe 92mm 2000rpm fan. It uses Fluid Dynamic Bearings. They sell them at newegg for 12 bucks.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835185067

Placid
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Post by Placid » Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:24 am

2000 RPM is too far below my airflow requirement. I'm looking for ~2500 RPM, a little less is also acceptable.

It seems this thread has gone "back on topic" in reference to the subject. So as not to mix the discussion I have started a thread specifically for the buzzing issue: viewtopic.php?t=51202

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Post by thejamppa » Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:30 am

Panflow MB-MAT -series is probably one of the best alternatives you can have... but the real MB-MAT that is recomended is very hard to get really...
You may need to inquire here:
http://www.dorothybradbury.co.uk/

To actually get non-buzzing version of 2,500 PM fan for 92mm is very hard.

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