Which is the quietest 120mm PWM fan?

Shamgar · Post by **Shamgar** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:16 am

burebista wrote:To be honest for me it doesn't worth to buy an expensive fan (Noiseblocker Multiframe, Noctua, Papst, Enermax Cluster, etc). For my ears* all are the same below 800 RPM, all I hear is a woosh from air moved.

*ears = middle of the night, all windows closed and a graveyard silence in house.

Very good advice. Why spend more money for no true benefit?

burebista wrote:
Shamgar wrote:Feel free to feel sorry for me.
Why? No need to feel sorry for you. As long as your rig fulfill your needs is the perfect rig for you.
In my case all I can say is that after a couple of years of trial and error and reading countless of pages on SPCR I finally reach my silence goal.
This is what I wish to you too.

Yes, I built an new PC recently but it didn't go to plan.

So I now use my old faithful computer from 2003/4 which is quite loud. Even the very quiet system I built to replace this one I considered still audible (maybe because I didn't have time to tune it properly), so this is a few steps backwards. But this old trusty system still works fine and I can still come onto SPCR and post, check the internet for emails and update my programs etc. I put a new quiet HDD and DVD-R in there plus I bought a new LCD monitor which improved things a lot.

I will eventually go to building a system that will suit my needs without breaking the bank. "The perfect rig for you (me)" as you rightfully say. I think this is the only way to do it.
Thanks for you kind comments.

wsxcde · Post by **wsxcde** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:59 pm

I bought 2 Noiseblocker Multiframe M12-P PWM fans from 2 different stores for my CPU cooler. Both of them made noticeable whining PWM motor noise at low RPM even inside my P182 case when connected to my P5Q Deluxe motherboard. Connecting the M12-P to a Zalman ZM-MFC2 fan controller made the same whining noise. On the other hand, my Nexus PWM fan (D12SL-12 PWM) makes only a faint PWM motor noise. The good news is that the whining PWM motor noise can be almost eliminated by increasing the CPU fan PWM base frequency to 46.9KHz in Speedfan. With this fix, the Noiseblocker Multiframe M12-P fan seemed to sound a little quieter than the Nexus PWM fan. But, it didn't result in lower CPU temperature. Anyway I returned both M12-P fans since I could not stand the whining noise when my PC was booting up into Windows. Maybe the non-PWM version of the Noiseblocker Multiframe fans will work better.

ntavlas · Post by **ntavlas** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:42 am

I`m quite pleased with my kama pwm. I was specifically looking for typical pwm artifacts but found none. The motor is as smooth as the best of them.

I`ve also got an artic cooling pwm (the one with the conventional frame). It`s not as smooth as the skythe but it`s still decent. The problem is that at very low rpm it does click.

To be honest for me it doesn't worth to buy an expensive fan (Noiseblocker Multiframe, Noctua, Papst, Enermax Cluster, etc). For my ears* all are the same below 800 RPM, all I hear is a woosh from air moved.

*ears = middle of the night, all windows closed and a graveyard silence in house.

I completely agree with this way of thinking, keep in mind though that for some people it could make a difference. For instance, in the middle of the night I can hear my fans down to 600-550rpm. Others report that they can hear their fans even below 500rpm. The difference between a nexus and another decent fan could mean another 50 rpm before the fan becomes audible (that`s roughly 10% extra aiflow at 500rpm). Of course at 9pm all of this doesn`t matter, turning the fans up to 800rpm wouldn`t make a difference.

So whether a top fan is worth your money or not does depend on your hearing, ambient noise level and when you use the computer..

new2spcr · Post by **new2spcr** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:11 am

ntavlas wrote:I`m quite pleased with my kama pwm. I was specifically looking for typical pwm artifacts but found none. The motor is as smooth as the best of them.

I`ve also got an artic cooling pwm (the one with the conventional frame). It`s not as smooth as the skythe but it`s still decent. The problem is that at very low rpm it does click.

To be honest for me it doesn't worth to buy an expensive fan (Noiseblocker Multiframe, Noctua, Papst, Enermax Cluster, etc). For my ears* all are the same below 800 RPM, all I hear is a woosh from air moved.

*ears = middle of the night, all windows closed and a graveyard silence in house.
I completely agree with this way of thinking, keep in mind though that for some people it could make a difference. For instance, in the middle of the night I can hear my fans down to 600-550rpm. Others report that they can hear their fans even below 500rpm. The difference between a nexus and another decent fan could mean another 50 rpm before the fan becomes audible (that`s roughly 10% extra aiflow at 500rpm). Of course at 9pm all of this doesn`t matter, turning the fans up to 800rpm wouldn`t make a difference.

So whether a top fan is worth your money or not does depend on your hearing, ambient noise level and when you use the computer..

I can definitely hear my system fan @ 550 rpm, which I consider to be way too loud for the bucks I paid for the silent system. If I pay attention, I can hear it @ 500 rpm in the middle of the night when the radiators don't emit any noise. I can't hear any motor noise but only the "whoosh" sound... I guess the "whoosh" is inevitable!

And yep, I can feel more air coming out of the back at +50 rpm, so a decent fan is a must.

jessekopelman · Post by **jessekopelman** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:18 am

new2spcr wrote: I can definitely hear my system fan @ 550 rpm

What kind of HDD are you using that it's quieter than a 550RPM 120mm fan!?

new2spcr · Post by **new2spcr** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:41 am

jessekopelman wrote: What kind of HDD are you using that it's quieter than a 550RPM 120mm fan!?

A Samsung HD322HJ, 320 gb, 7200 rpm, suspended with rubber cords. I think it only has one platter.
I seriously can't hear it unless I kneel down and put my head in level with the intake vent slits on the P182.

jessekopelman · Post by **jessekopelman** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:54 am

new2spcr wrote: I seriously can't hear it unless I kneel down and put my head in level with the intake vent slits on the P182.

Sure, but I would say the same thing about a 550RPM fan. I definitely can't hear that from more than a few inches away . . . At least not in a normal room. Do you live in an anechoic chamber?

new2spcr · Post by **new2spcr** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:11 am

jessekopelman wrote:
new2spcr wrote: I seriously can't hear it unless I kneel down and put my head in level with the intake vent slits on the P182.
Sure, but I would say the same thing about a 550RPM fan. I definitely can't hear that from more than a few inches away . . . At least not in a normal room. Do you live in an anechoic chamber?

Sitting about 1 meter from the rear/back part of the case I can only hear the air moving, a very low "whoosh" sound, but that's enough to annoy me. I guess I have very sensitive ears...

Edit: the case's rear end /exhaust area used to face a concrete wall covered only with a thin wallpaper, but I've taken care of that too. I've placed a door mat on the wall with some leftover sound dampening foam under it to soften any noise that comes out from the exhaust hole.

SilenceOfTheFans · Post by **SilenceOfTheFans** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:08 pm

jessekopelman wrote:
new2spcr wrote: I seriously can't hear it unless I kneel down and put my head in level with the intake vent slits on the P182.
Sure, but I would say the same thing about a 550RPM fan. I definitely can't hear that from more than a few inches away . . . At least not in a normal room. Do you live in an anechoic chamber?

jessekopelman wrote:
new2spcr wrote: I can definitely hear my system fan @ 550 rpm
What kind of HDD are you using that it's quieter than a 550RPM 120mm fan!?

how is this of any help to anyone?? if your computer is quiet enough then please by all means leave! ours however are obviously not or we would not be having this discussion so why waste our time??

jessekopelman · Post by **jessekopelman** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 1:32 am

SilenceOfTheFans wrote: how is this of any help to anyone?? if your computer is quiet enough then please by all means leave! ours however are obviously not or we would not be having this discussion so why waste our time??

The expected SPL of a good 120mm fan at 550RPM is around 12dBA. The idle noise of the top HDD is also about 12dBA. That is why I was curious that one could be clearly heard by new2spcr while the other could not.

If you can hear a 550RPM fan from more than a few inches away, there is something very unique to your situation that cannot be fixed by changing the fan. That may not be happy news, but it doesn't make it worthless. If this is your situation, there is no magic fan for you. You need to start looking at solutions like creating external ducts/air guides to redirect the airflow of the fan and probably think hard about truly fanless solutions.

new2spcr · Post by **new2spcr** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:52 am

SilenceOfTheFans wrote:
how is this of any help to anyone?? if your computer is quiet enough then please by all means leave! ours however are obviously not or we would not be having this discussion so why waste our time??

I don't see why our posts were totally irrelevant. We were discussing fan speed, dB, perceived noise level from the fan depending on rpm, also compared it to other system components.

Others might find the posts interesting.

It's not very difficult to scroll past any input you don't find interesting enough is it.

new2spcr · Post by **new2spcr** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 11:55 am

jessekopelman wrote:

If you can hear a 550RPM fan from more than a few inches away, there is something very unique to your situation that cannot be fixed by changing the fan. That may not be happy news, but it doesn't make it worthless. If this is your situation, there is no magic fan for you. You need to start looking at solutions like creating external ducts/air guides to redirect the airflow of the fan and probably think hard about truly fanless solutions.

Honestly, I don't think my build is unique in any way. I use standard components, fans and case.
The only thing I can think of that's maybe little less common, is that my desk doesn't overhang the PC. But as another member has observed, this discussion could continue elsewhere on the forum.

thejamppa · Post by **thejamppa** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:40 pm

How close you are computer also affects your hearing but one of the thing we have to remember when it comes to silent PC's

1) Noise, sound and anything related noise are subjective to the individuals. Which leads to us in 2nd thing:

2) We're all individuals. Way we hear and especially experience sound is completely different. Also how well we hear and in what range of sounds we hear.

SilenceOfTheFans · Post by **SilenceOfTheFans** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:55 pm

thejamppa wrote:How close you are computer also affects your hearing but one of the thing we have to remember when it comes to silent PC's

1) Noise, sound and anything related noise are subjective to the individuals. Which leads to us in 2nd thing:

2) We're all individuals. Way we hear and especially experience sound is completely different. Also how well we hear and in what range of sounds we hear.

you mean to say that things are louder when they are nearer? and that some peoples hearing is different to others?? omg this is big news dude dont just post this on some itty bitty forum, the whole world needs to know!
by the way, y'know them keyboards, they have like all these little buttons on that you can press and make words happen!

thejamppa · Post by **thejamppa** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 3:06 pm

SilenceOfTheFans wrote:
thejamppa wrote:How close you are computer also affects your hearing but one of the thing we have to remember when it comes to silent PC's

1) Noise, sound and anything related noise are subjective to the individuals. Which leads to us in 2nd thing:

2) We're all individuals. Way we hear and especially experience sound is completely different. Also how well we hear and in what range of sounds we hear.
you mean to say that things are louder when they are nearer? and that some peoples hearing is different to others?? omg this is big news dude dont just post this on some itty bitty forum, the whole world needs to know!
by the way, y'know them keyboards, they have like all these little buttons on that you can press and make words happen!

Sarcasm has its place and is good when executed properly its good... If not... Well impression is misguided heavy handidly well as bright fellow you can do the math...

jessekopelman · Post by **jessekopelman** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 3:24 pm

new2spcr wrote: Honestly, I don't think my build is unique in any way. I use standard components, fans and case.
The only thing I can think of that's maybe little less common, is that my desk doesn't overhang the PC. But as another member has observed, this discussion could continue elsewhere on the forum.

Probably not your build, that's why I wrote "situation". Situation includes things like case placement, ambient noise in room, and sensitivity of the listener. If I had to guess, it would be that the ambient noise in your room is unusually low.

Also, I did not mean to suggest that being able to lower a fan from 550RPM to 500RPM is useless. Given the logarithmic relationship between SPL and RPM, a change of 10% in fanspeed is quite likely to be noticeable (if the higher value is actually audible). What I meant to say is twofold: First, if a decent 120mm fan is actually audible to you at 550RPM, you have an unusual situation (as explained above). Second, at 550RPM you are already into a very low airflow situation and will be extremely constrained in your ability to go lower by your need for cooling -- in other words, you have reached an inflection point where it is no longer about finding a fan that can meet your cooling needs but more about finding components/setup that can actually be cooled at the desired noise level.

SilenceOfTheFans · Post by **SilenceOfTheFans** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 3:57 pm

thejamppa wrote: Sarcasm has its place and is good when executed properly its good... If not... Well impression is misguided heavy handidly well as bright fellow you can do the math...

i almost fell off my chair!! i love it when stupid people try to sound intelligent

Shamgar · Post by **Shamgar** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:53 pm

SilenceOfTheFans wrote:
thejamppa wrote: Sarcasm has its place and is good when executed properly its good... If not... Well impression is misguided heavy handidly well as bright fellow you can do the math...
i almost fell off my chair!! i love it when stupid people try to sound intelligent

Perhaps it would be best if we stopped the personal attacks and instead helped each other find good fans, which this thread is about. SilenceofTheFans, as the person who started this topic in the first place, it would also be fitting if you showed a bit more respect to someone whose native language is not English and who has helped you in this thread and many others throughout the forums.

This kind of sidetrack happens but it would be good to get back on the topic of PWM fans either here or elsewhere because many of us want to find the same information as you do.

thejamppa · Post by **thejamppa** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:06 am

Of course 550 rpm fan that is audiable might due poor sample of fan. Some fan are noisy no matter what rpm's they are running. Even if they're reputable series.

I had few poor sample iof Slipstream's and Nexus RealSilent basics in myself and they were pretty much audiable at any rpm, however bit relubrication did amazing thing for them.

p.s. What comes to my intelligence, so I might be stupid *shrug* what about it? Am I not allowed to be less intelligent than someone else?

new2spcr · Post by **new2spcr** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:03 am

jessekopelman wrote:you have reached an inflection point where it is no longer about finding a fan that can meet your cooling needs but more about finding components/setup that can actually be cooled at the desired noise level[/i].

I fully agree with this.

new2spcr · Post by **new2spcr** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:09 am

thejamppa wrote:Of course 550 rpm fan that is audiable might due poor sample of fan. Some fan are noisy no matter what rpm's they are running. Even if they're reputable series.

I had few poor sample iof Slipstream's and Nexus RealSilent basics in myself and they were pretty much audiable at any rpm, however bit relubrication did amazing thing for them.

p.s. What comes to my intelligence, so I might be stupid *shrug* what about it? Am I not allowed to be less intelligent than someone else?

I agree to a degree. But if it's only air turbulence one can hear, nothing from the fan's motor, then I can't imagine why bad sampling may have anything to do with it?

new2spcr · Post by **new2spcr** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:23 am

SilenceOfTheFans wrote:
thejamppa wrote:How close you are computer also affects your hearing but one of the thing we have to remember when it comes to silent PC's

1) Noise, sound and anything related noise are subjective to the individuals. Which leads to us in 2nd thing:

2) We're all individuals. Way we hear and especially experience sound is completely different. Also how well we hear and in what range of sounds we hear.
you mean to say that things are louder when they are nearer? and that some peoples hearing is different to others?? omg this is big news dude dont just post this on some itty bitty forum, the whole world needs to know!
by the way, y'know them keyboards, they have like all these little buttons on that you can press and make words happen!

Read his post again?

SilenceOfTheFans · Post by **SilenceOfTheFans** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:02 am

thejamppa wrote: I had few poor sample iof Slipstream's and Nexus RealSilent basics in myself and they were pretty much audiable at any rpm, however bit relubrication did amazing thing for them.

sounds interesting, would love to hear more, what did you use to lubricate them and how/where did you apply it?

thejamppa · Post by **thejamppa** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:52 am

SilenceOfTheFans wrote:
thejamppa wrote: I had few poor sample iof Slipstream's and Nexus RealSilent basics in myself and they were pretty much audiable at any rpm, however bit relubrication did amazing thing for them.
sounds interesting, would love to hear more, what did you use to lubricate them and how/where did you apply it?

That's pretty simple:
I removed sticker and removed the small plastic ring keeping fan on their place ( do not lose that its pain to find ) and I separated blades from frame. Then I used your basic sewing machine / gun / general oil (Hanseline oil) and appllied it on fan shaft and metal ring on the fan unit with non-linting cloth.

Then I reassembled entire fan and before closing fan I usually dropped one or two drops oil on the fan shaft and that small plastic ring keeping fan on frame. Then I close thing with fan's own sticker. Most of the time their own glue do not work anymore so I use few drops of grazy glue to keep sticker on its place.

One method is also not to disassemble entire fan but use small needle and syrigine like ones diabetics use to inject few drops of oil thru sticker. However fans like slipstream have rubber/silocone caps protecting the fan assembly so you basicly need to remove that. Thin needle is easily broken by thick rubber cap.

SilenceOfTheFans · Post by **SilenceOfTheFans** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:55 am

thats great, does it help all fans or just unusually loud ones? would it be worth doing it with every fan? more lube = quieter? or could you create resistance and deiminish performance?

thejamppa · Post by **thejamppa** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:09 am

it works well wide variety fans but doesn't fix everything (like the fan in Scythe KamaBay which doesn't have smoothes rotation when you spin it with finger ) but I've made some very loud no-name fans surpringly quiet just lubing them. More lube doesn't affect performance negatively. I use low viscocity oil. If you use lube that has great viscocity it certainly might create negative impact but running general oil like Hanseline I use doesn't create resistance. If you use something that lints easily then it also can create resistance. Which is reason I use piece of cloth ( 100% cotton taken from broken bed sheet and wrapped around small stick ) to lube these things.

If your fan has relatively smooth spin with finger, not pumpy and resistant spin like in KamaBay fan, then lubing fan can do miracles. I got rid of sound which sounded like dog breathing heavily just lubing fans. It has worked well in Slipstream and Nexus series fans removing hissing and dog breathing like sound they had out-of-box.

Mercatorn · Post by **Mercatorn** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:12 am

i was hoping to get some good insight into these fans since there is a shop that has

Arctic Coolings 120mm PWM
Akasa Apache PWM FN-057
NoiseBlocker NB-MultiFrame M12P PWM

all in stock and now i dont know which one to buy lol

thejamppa · Post by **thejamppa** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:52 am

I haven't got my apache yet so I can't help. AC at least is satisfying quiet albeit its not the best one but better than most. AC's weak link has been tonalities and slight grinding bearing noise but with good PWM control you should have very hard time to hear those when your computer is idling or in light loads.

Noiseblocker has gotten a lot positive things from reviewers but nobody in SPCR has yet tested that due they're hard to get and costs arm and leg.

40974111 · Post by **40974111** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:08 am

My AC12025 PWM is inaudible from 5cm at 560rpm, but I start getting turbulence above 600rpm (i think caused by heatsink fins).

Definently quieter even up to 860rpm than my Corsair HX450s fan.

ame · Post by **ame** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:29 am

40974111 wrote:My AC12025 PWM is inaudible from 5cm at 560rpm, but I start getting turbulence above 600rpm (i think caused by heatsink fins).

Definently quieter even up to 860rpm than my Corsair HX450s fan.

+1 for these results. My exhaust fan, a silpstream 1200 undervolted to ~800RPM, is always loader than the AC1205 PWM on the heatsink.