Panaflo: overrated?

wumpus · Post by **wumpus** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 5:52 pm

OK. I now own the following.

Panaflo 92mm L (1)
Panaflo 92mm M (1)
Panaflo 80mm L (4)
Panaflo 120mm L (3)

.. based on this experience, compared to all the other fans I've owned, I think Panaflo is HIGHLY overrated for noise vs. CFM. Almost comically so.

I do not consider any of the panaflo fans I have all that quiet at default voltage.. and what's worse, since they're mostly "L" or "Low" airflow versions, by the time they are undervolted, they move hardly any air at all.

Yay.. quiet fans that.. barely.. move.. any.. air.

Frankly, I'm not sure panaflo fans deserve the beatification they've gotten in this forum and elsewhere. I think there are a lot of other fan options out there just as good if not BETTER for low noise, and probably moving more air to boot.

SometimesWarrior · Post by **SometimesWarrior** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:28 pm

Not many people here consider the 80mm Panaflo "L" quiet at 12V. I certainly don't. The Panaflo is highly praised because it behaves so well when undervolted: the 80mm Panaflo L's I have easily beat every other 80mm fan I own for low bearing/motor noise.

Panaflos are highly regarded because they are cheap, widely available, reliable undervolters, fairly consistent in build quality (at least, the ones made in Japan are), and make very little noise other than an airflow whoosh (which is something that, to my knowledge, is an unavoidable consequence of air movement, although different fan sizes and fin shapes can certainly affect the volume and quality of the noise). There are fans that make less noise when undervolted, but they aren't astoundingly better than the Panaflo.

I can't even think of a use for a fan in a PC that pushes more air than an 80mm Panaflo L at 12V. I have five Panaflos in my case, and none of them get fed more than 7V. If you're looking for a fan that pushes more air than the Panaflo, you aren't getting any closer to a quiet PC.

I don't buy Panaflos for their CFM/noise ratio, because I don't care about CFM. Any 80mm fan on the market will give me enough air. I like the Panaflo because it is low noise, period. High-CFM fans don't belong in a quiet PC.

aphonos · Post by **aphonos** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:31 pm

wumpus wrote:OK. I now own the following.

Panaflo 92mm L (1)
Panaflo 92mm M (1)
Panaflo 80mm L (4)
Panaflo 120mm L (3)

.. based on this experience, compared to all the other fans I've owned, I think Panaflo is HIGHLY overrated for noise vs. CFM. Almost comically so.

I do not consider any of the panaflo fans I have all that quiet at default voltage.. and what's worse, since they're mostly "L" or "Low" airflow versions, by the time they are undervolted, they move hardly any air at all.

Yay.. quiet fans that.. barely.. move.. any.. air.

Boy, you must really either really like conflict or you're really cranky tonight.

Those kinds of remarks are certainly an invitation to battle around here.

I'm not sure if you intend the tone that your remarks seem to take on or not.

I don't mean to be rude, but for someone with +200 posts, I'm surprised that you suggest running fans at full voltage and that your remarks seem to omit any reference to the vast number of times that people at SPCR discuss the necessity of a trade-off between noise and heat (ie. airflow/CFM).

I'm not sure what your expectations are/were, but it seems the general rule, based on the broad experience of a broad sampling of users with a broad sampling of fans, is that the Panaflo fans are among the smoothest running when undervolted. The 92mm L1A excepted--a fan that many recommend avoiding.

Rarely is it recommended around here to run the fans at full voltage.

And I quote......

SPCR Recommended Fans Page wrote:The performance data provided on this list is for 12VDC, from the manufacturers. They are not confirmed, merely a starting point. By SPCR standards, NONE of the fans on the list are quiet enough at 12VDC. They are all clearly audible as individual sources of noise when run at 12V in a quiet PC.

Notice that NONE is even capitalized in the quote above.

wumpus wrote:Frankly, I'm not sure panaflo fans deserve the beatification they've gotten in this forum and elsewhere. I think there are a lot of other fan options out there just as good if not BETTER for low noise, and probably moving more air to boot.

In light of the Posting Guidelines #7, I'd invite you to not start a smackdown on Panaflos, but provide, based on your experience, the grounds for a discussion of what you deem as acceptably quiet fans. Or, to put it another way....in response to your quote above: name some of those "other fan options."

ez2remember · Post by **ez2remember** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 10:39 pm

The number one cause of noise from fans is air turbulance. Generally speaking the lower the airflow, the less noise they produce. Other factors such as bearing/motor noises and vibrations effects the sound quality. In this respect the Panaflo L's are very good, they produce very little bearing/motor noises. When a fan is undervolted and pushing little or no air they produce very little airflow noise (air turbunlance).

The Panaflo's push air in a perpendicular spiral which is better for directed airflow such as spot cooling. Other fans dissipate air in a tangent and is less effective for this purpose.

Quiet fans are essentially low airflow fans, so your point it does not push much air when undervolted makes no sense. If you push greater CFM from a single fan you will cause more noise through air turbulance. That's why we goto the extremes of undervolting to the lowest voltage possible so they push less air and cause less air turbulance.

My guess is, in time when you experience plenty of other fans you would agree the Panaflo's has one of the best airflow/noise ratio. I use to think when I initially used Panaflo's what so special about it, but the more I lived with it the more remarkable it has become compared to lots of other fans.

Tobias · Post by **Tobias** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 12:20 am

I think Wumpus has a point. There are better options available. The biggest point Wumpus makes, though, is that these forums tend to stick to one solution. Some of these solutions are more dear to the general populace of the forums than others and it is also harder to introduce new ideas and get them to stick in these areas. In other areas everyone is very open to new ideas.

The L1A:s is an idea that is very dear to the general populace of SPCR, even though their performance (noice/CFM) isn´t that much to brag about. There are (many) fans that at least on the paper has much better properties than the L1A:s and even though I have not tested the L1A:s myself, I have used fans that must give the panaflos a very good fight for the title.

al bundy · Post by **al bundy** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 1:30 am

I also think Wumpus has a point.

I have not found Panaflo 80mm L1A fans to be all that special in a silent PC either - especially when the silent PC is located very close to the user. I've tried many, many Panaflo fans and they have been very consistent in their properties.

[rant]

For silence you must undervolt them, of course - but then they make this consistent "motor ticking" noise that is easily more annoying to me than any other fan I've ever used. This ticking sound also happens to resonate very easily into the material of the case, or the CPU sink, or whatever they are attached to (even when using those blue isolator mounts), and thus becomes even louder.

That said, the spot-cooling aspect of Panaflos is better than any other fan I've used. This particular property of the Panaflo 80mm L1A fans really surprised me when I discovered it.

In my own experience, this extremely annoying motor-ticking quality of the undervolted Panaflo fan could only make it a good choice in a silent PC if the fan is used deep inside the computer case, instead of being used as a case fan or as a PSU fan. When they are used deep inside the case, the motor-ticking sound is a bit more muffled and thus slightly more tolerable.

Again, these comments only apply to an already very silent PC that you sit close to when you are working, playing, etc. Obviously, the relative noisiness of your other components, the distance you sit from the rig, how good your hearing is, the ambient noisiness of the room, your own personal taste, etc will make a major difference as to whether you perceive things in the same way that I do about these Panaflo fans.

[/rant]

silvervarg · Post by **silvervarg** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 1:38 am

I can't even think of a use for a fan in a PC that pushes more air than an 80mm Panaflo L at 12V. I have five Panaflos in my case, and none of them get fed more than 7V. If you're looking for a fan that pushes more air than the Panaflo, you aren't getting any closer to a quiet PC.

There are (many) fans that at least on the paper has much better properties than the L1A:s

As pointed out here before most users at this forum do not run fans at full speed due to noice. All fans are specified on how they behave at 12 volts, so the fan specs only give a small clue on what you want to know about a fan. The really interesting part is how much noice and CFM a fan gives when undervolted.

There is also a big difference between case fans and spot cooling fans.
For a spot cooling fan you are probably limited to one fan and it has to have a specific size (or things will at least get more complicated).
For case fans you often have options to make bigger holes, use more fans, use inlet fans and exaust fans in combination etc. The available options will usually be limited by what case you use.

The scientific way to go would be to first determine how much airflow you need to get sufficient cooling and then look for options to get that amount of cooling.
So I would prefere data to be sorted with CFM on one axis and with alternatives for cooling setup on the other axis.
As an example:

Code: Select all

CFM    fan option                              
24      1*Panaflo 80mm L1A@12Volt 21dBA
24      2*Panaflo 80mm L1A@6Volt 15dBA    
24      1*Panaflo 120mm [email protected] 11dBA

This is just an example, but it should be very close to real figures (using calculated values only in example).
To make the example simple I have just included some standard panaflo fans. A full setup should ofcourse include more fans manufacturers.
Looking at this I can see that if I need 24CFM airflow and compare the options with what I can fit in and make a good purchase.

I guess it should be possible to compute most of these values well from fan specs in combination with SPCR fan tests.

Tobias · Post by **Tobias** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 2:59 am

I know certainly well that there are very few people who aims at a silent puter that runs any fan at 12V, that was not my point. My point is that a difference at 12V will mirror a difference at 5V, altough not as big (in absolute terms) and not the exact same ratio. However, a large enough difference in the 12V rating should correspond to a difference at 5V as well.

As for case fan vs. spot colling fan, ducted right a case fan can take care of spotcooling as well. With the right noice/CFM ratio and the right duct one can take on any CPU together with any GPU.

The listing of fans at a specific CFM is a very good idea. As you say, it will show exact what combinations is viable. Also, idealy, that list should contain lower boundaries for when the fan starts to click and or refuse to start. And contain many new fans. The Panaflos, held in such high regard for noice/cfm, are no longer undisputed. There are viable options, sadly they have a hard time to get attention in our forums.

Henrik · Post by **Henrik** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 3:22 am

It would certainly be nice if someone could name any of the alternatives that they find to be so good...

SometimesWarrior · Post by **SometimesWarrior** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 3:41 am

al bundy wrote:For silence you must undervolt them, of course - but then they make this consistent "motor ticking" noise that is easily more annoying to me than any other fan I've ever used.

I have the opposite observation: the ticking of the Panaflo is the quietest and least annoying I've heard from any fan. I've only heard a dozen or so fan models, though, and only ten samples of the 80mm Panaflo L1a.

Tobias wrote:My point is that a difference at 12V will mirror a difference at 5V, altough not as big (in absolute terms) and not the exact same ratio. However, a large enough difference in the 12V rating should correspond to a difference at 5V as well.

This idea will work when considering the airflow noise from a fan, but a near-silent PC runs fans slow enough to minimize airflow noise. The noise from slow-spinning fans is generally motor, bearing, or vibration noise. These types of noise may not be audible when the fan runs at 12V, and they might not even affect the dB rating of a fan at low voltages, but they are the most noticeable form of noise in a slow-spinning fan. In short, the best-sounding 12V fan is in no way guaranteed to be the best-sounding 5V fan, because the sound quality changes.

silvervarg · Post by **silvervarg** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 4:08 am

Henrik:
It would certainly be nice if someone could name any of the alternatives that the find to be so good...

To make this thread more interesting I think it is time to mention a few candidates. I have too little personal experience to come up with good candidates from my own tests, so here I will rely compleatly on the great finnish test of 80mm fans.
I believe that test only tested a single sample of each fan, but since the L1A did score very well it should have been an OK sample.

From that test we have the following really interesting runner ups:
May Jie MJ8025 12 (in test this one did beat the L1A noise level at 10 CFM).
YS Tech FD128125 2B-2A Super Silent (in test this one did beat the L1A noise level at 10 CFM and was very close on the 20 CFM test).

Hopefully a few members out there has both the L1A and at least one of these runner ups and can give us some real life experience.
Hopefully including price.

Some interesting info from the Finnish test is that these fans give 10 CFM at the following voltages:
Panaflo L1A 4.95V
May Jie 4.50V
YS Tech 4.55V
The close voltage ration shows that they are fairly similar from start, so they should be rather close when comparing them.

We should also mention that there is a few people at this forum that really like to get RPM monitoring of the fans, and that alone is a drawback for the L1A (I think that both these candidates have RPM sensing).
I know that there is supposed to exist an L1BX fan, but not many people here have that one.

Tobias · Post by **Tobias** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 4:20 am

As for 120mm I have found

ADDA AD1212DX-A73GL
which I have found at two vendors in Uppsala alone,but no non-swede hit with google. A review in swedish (not exactly SPCR-quality) can be found here:
http://www.gforcex.com/recensioner.php?visa=1&sida=1

The Evercool 120mm aluminiumfan
discussed by me and CoolColJ here:
http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=7274

mynci · Post by **mynci** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 4:23 am

i am a very big fan of the panaflo's i have tried several differnt 'quiet' models (including the laughable zalman fans) and the panaflos are by far the quietest, i am down to audible at a few feet away (just) and at night, if the windows are shut and my sytem is fairly cool and powerful.
the worst fans (that have actually been close to being quiet) i have found to be the really low flow NMBs, a sight whine seems to come from them, and they dont move enough air to make it tolerable, and they dont undervolt very well. and noiseblocker s2's, these were my first purchase and a combination of (what seems to me to be) bearing noise and no tolerance for anything near the intake side mean i try to avoid using them at all costs - they only get close to quiet at about 5v and then they push almost no air.

i would however love to hear about other options, im always on the look out for a way to loose those last few db's that are bothering me.
perhaps someone could offer such an alternative list?

ez2remember · Post by **ez2remember** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 4:34 am

SometimesWarrior wrote:
al bundy wrote:For silence you must undervolt them, of course - but then they make this consistent "motor ticking" noise that is easily more annoying to me than any other fan I've ever used.
I have the opposite observation: the ticking of the Panaflo is the quietest and least annoying I've heard from any fan. I've only heard a dozen or so fan models, though, and only ten samples of the 80mm Panaflo L1a.

I would back this up, the 80mm Panaflo's has one of the lowest bearing/motor noise. I don't know what you are hearing al bundy, as my produce so little noise, even in free air with your ear pressed against it, I don't hear the sound you describle. It has a slight electrical buzz, but it is so low, that it dissapears when your ears are just inches away.

Are you sure it's not just a bad batch?

Riffer · Post by **Riffer** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 6:31 am

I have deathmatched the 80mm L1A's against just about every fan out there, and they are still the champs.

Why?

Silent in all respects at 11V

- no clicking, no bearing noise, no turbulence.

If you mount mulitple L1A's in your case, you will have to volt them down further - and you get the same thing at 5V.

- no clicking, no bearing noise, no turbulence.

I find the 92mm L1A's excellent at 6V, showing the same characteristics:

- no clicking, no bearing noise, no turbulence.

If you want an 80mm fan that blows a lot of air, I would recommend the Globe Fan Clear Fan at Plycon. You will certainly hear them, even at 5V, but there are no extraneous noises.

silvervarg · Post by **silvervarg** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 6:56 am

Riffer:
I have deathmatched the 80mm L1A's against just about every fan out there, and they are still the champs.

Have you compared it against any of the 2 runner-ups mentioned in my post?

I guess most people here would not consider the L1A "Silent in all respects at 11V". Even a perfect fan should produce turbulence noice at that CFM rate.

Reading the theory about fans I believe that a case fan (especially an exhaust fan) should direct the air out in a fairly wide angle to produce the least possible amount of air turbulence noise. The L1A produces a rather concentrated beam of air, so it should at least in theory be possible to build a quieter fan by using the same motor etc as the L1A but with slightly different shaped fanblades.
The concentrated beam is ideal for spot cooling. E.g. as a CPU fan.

wumpus · Post by **wumpus** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 7:24 am

Noise level is always relative to the listener, of course. I wasn't trying to start a fight, just expressing my general disappointment with the entire range of Panaflo fans that I own (listed in the first post).

My main problem with the Panaflos is that I do not feel they are very efficient-- in other words, the noise level relative to the CFM is not what it should be.

Example. There is no question (to my ear, and finger) that the current 120mm Enermax I have in my HTPC is both moving more air AND is more quiet than either 92mm Panaflo M/L I own, at ANY voltage. And based on my previous experience with the 120mm Panaflo L at 5v-- it's quiet, but then again it's moving a teeny-tiny fraction of the air that the 120mm Enermax is. In that case I guess it's a question of what your priorities are, but the Panaflo loses big time in the ratio of air movement to noise, which is what I care MOST about.

Riffer · Post by **Riffer** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 7:52 am

silvervarg wrote:
Riffer:
I have deathmatched the 80mm L1A's against just about every fan out there, and they are still the champs.
Have you compared it against any of the 2 runner-ups mentioned in my post?

I'll have to check my "box of rejected fans"

Certainly, I have some YS Tech's in there. One fan of theirs I really liked was the manually adjustable one.

I think that you are imagining things if you can hear a panaflo at 11V (single fan, isolated, reasonable level of ambient noise). Maybe if you put it right up to your ear, but certainly not at a couple of feet.

Which of course leads us to the inevitable question of how to measure things etc etc etc.

energy · Post by **energy** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 10:59 am

Depends what you rate as a "reasonable amount of ambient noise". In a quiet room at night, a 80mm L1A is clearly audible. In the same room during daytime with the noise of passing cars at the main road 300 feet away, it is virtually inaudible.

limee · Post by **limee** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 3:46 pm

wumpus wrote: Example. There is no question (to my ear, and finger) that the current 120mm Enermax I have in my HTPC is both moving more air AND is more quiet than either 92mm Panaflo M/L I own, at ANY voltage. And based on my previous experience with the 120mm Panaflo L at 5v-- it's quiet, but then again it's moving a teeny-tiny fraction of the air that the 120mm Enermax is. In that case I guess it's a question of what your priorities are, but the Panaflo loses big time in the ratio of air movement to noise, which is what I care MOST about.

Geez, before deciding what is overrated based on YOUR priorities, research into others first. I understand there will be those who look for best noise/cfm ratios, but most seem to seek fans that are silent and push enough air to keep their systems stable. Panaflos, when undervolted, fulfill that job (most cases), are easy to find, and affordable. Their quality in batches is pretty consistant as well; I haven't run into any problems of having them start at 5v or with loud ticks.

Also, perhaps your intention was not to start a fight, but when you start describing simple, valid recommendations with hyped words such as
"beautification" or with cynicism, it can seem that way.

haysdb · Post by **haysdb** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 4:30 pm

Panaflo 80mm L (12)

I have tried TWELVE samples of the 80mm Panaflo L1A and none of them are any better (quieter) than any of the quietest half in my "box o' fans". In other words, no better than "average" when compared with PCP&C, Zalman, Vantec, NMB, Papst, and a few others I can't remember.

Does that mean the L1A is no good? Well, if it weren't for it's "reputation", I'd have to say they are nothing special. Nothing special at all. But because they are so highly regarded by so many people, I have to think I am just incredibly unlucky to have gotten so many bum fans.

Would someone be willing to send me a quiet sample? I will pay shipping BOTH WAYS. I just want to know whether I am "hearing things" or whether the Panaflos just aren't that quiet.

What's better/quieter? The Nexus Real Silent Case Fan. Smooth as silk bearings in my three samples. Again, maybe I am as "lucky" with the Nexus fans as I am "unlucky" with the Panaflo's, but I can only report my personal experience.

David

wumpus · Post by **wumpus** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 5:33 pm

with hyped words such as "beautification"

different word -- beatification

Shrug. Your mileage may vary. I've been disappointed with every single Panaflo fan I own, primarily because of intrinsic mechanical noise. All I'm saying is -- caveat emptor.

bigred · Post by **bigred** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 7:20 pm

Could someone recommend a fan that has similar noise and under-volt characteristics as the Panaflo L1A, but a more broad output and less of the "spot cooling" effect that the L1A's have? Maybe Pabst?

aphonos · Post by **aphonos** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 8:48 pm

wumpus wrote:Example. There is no question (to my ear, and finger) that the current 120mm Enermax I have in my HTPC is both moving more air AND is more quiet than either 92mm Panaflo M/L I own, at ANY voltage.

wumpus: Thanks for listing an alternative. I have seem the 120mm Enermax recommended by other SPCR users as well. As a side-note: The Enermax 120mm vs. L1A 92mm is apples to oranges, IMO. With the exception of Riffer's remarks above, I have not heard many people recommending the noisier 92mm L1A's.

More 120mm discussion here: 120mm fan (only Swedish selection) (incidentally, I found this linked by wumpus in another thread...thanks).

haysdb wrote:Panaflo 80mm L (12)

I have tried TWELVE samples of the 80mm Panaflo L1A and none of them are any better (quieter) than any of the quietest half in my "box o' fans". In other words, no better than "average" when compared with PCP&C, Zalman, Vantec, NMB, Papst, and a few others I can't remember.

haysbd: Would you please describe what you mean by quieter? At 12V? At 7V? At 5V? Quieter in terms of air turbulence or mechanical noise (ie ticking/clicking/bearing noise/eletrical whine)? Measured/tested in free air or in a case? Hard-mounted or decoupled? Removed grills or no? Intake or exhaust?

I ask because there is a host of variables to be considered when rating one fan "better" than another. (ie. wumpus seems to rate "better" fans as those that push greater CFM).

haysbd wrote:Does that mean the L1A is no good? Well, if it weren't for it's "reputation", I'd have to say they are nothing special. Nothing special at all. But because they are so highly regarded by so many people, I have to think I am just incredibly unlucky to have gotten so many bum fans.

wumpus and haysbd: Could you please specify the source(s) of your Panaflo purchases? It may point to either a bad batch or a recent decline in production quality (a la Papst fans which all seem to tick as of late). haysbd: Unless your final 5 L1A's came from a reliable source, I would venture that you are the victim of a bad batch, since you say in this thread that you got 5 from casemods.com (broadly reported as bad fans) and 2 from someone on ebay (who, for all we know, was reselling from casemods.com or some other trove of the bad batch).

haysbd wrote:What's better/quieter? The Nexus Real Silent Case Fan. Smooth as silk bearings in my three samples. Again, maybe I am as "lucky" with the Nexus fans as I am "unlucky" with the Panaflo's, but I can only report my personal experience.

David

haysbd: Thanks for posting an 80mm alternative. Your recommendation gets more discussion here: Anybody try the Nexus "Real Silent" Case Fans yet?
(in case any one is interested). It seems from this other thread that the Nexus would not be a suitable alternative based on wumpus's criteria because it pushes less CFM than the Panaflo (and so far, on average, costs more money than the L1A).

My personal experience is that the 4 80mm L1A's that I have running at or near 5V run smoothly and cannot be heard outside of the case unless I am directly in the air/sound path <1m and middle-of-the-night quiet. The NMB B19's and the Papst 8412N2GL's that I have had were a lot more ticky at all voltages than these L1A's (purchased from allelectronics.com).

haysdb · Post by **haysdb** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 9:57 pm

My comments are based on nothing more than holding the fans in my hand, listening to them and feeling how much vibration they put out. I connect the fans to a Zalman FanMate and check them at various settings. I have no way of measuring CFM other than "seat of the pants."

The first five L1A's came from case-mods.com, as did the last five, as replacements for the first five. The other two came from 'ferretbee' on eBay. I did not write down the numbers from the first set of fans I sent back, so I don't know if they were from the same "run" or not. I received the second five a good month or so after the first five, and posts in another forum from someone at case-mods strongly suggested that the replacements would be from another batch. I honestly don't know. For all I know, they sent the same fans back. They are certainly no quieter than the first five.

When *I* say "quieter" or "better" I am almost exclusively referring to bearing noise. Anything that doesn't sound like moving air. Admittedly, it's a totally subjective assessment. From my Panaflo L1A's I hear a "fluttering" sound, like the sound of a playing card in the spokes of a bicycle. I wouldn't call it "loud" or "obnoxious", but that's in free air. I haven't mounted any in a case yet. I "assume" that any sounds they make will be amplified when attached to a case, so I'm looking for quiet bearings and minimal vibration in free air, again assuming this will result in the quietest performance once installed in a case. ???

I suppose I "owe it" to my fellow SPCR's to purchase at least two samples of the L1A from a "reliable" source, but I have found a fan that I like (the Nexus) and which fulfills my personal criteria for "quiet", and it's a 3-wire fan, so I really don't CARE (whether the Panaflo's I have are representative samples or part of "bad batches") except that "inquiring minds want to know."

So, where or who is the most "reputable" source for L1A's?

David

Edit: ordered two of each of the Panaflo and Nexus fans from SiliconAcoustics. Will the new Nexus fans be as quiet as the three I have? Are the Panaflo fans I have "aberations"?

aphonos · Post by **aphonos** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 10:11 pm

Thanks for your detailed reply.

haysdb wrote:but I have found a fan that I like (the Nexus) and which fulfills my personal criteria for "quiet", and it's a 3-wire fan

Sounds (ha, ha) like you have the best kind of quiet fans.....fans that satisfy your quest for quiet.

Let us know what you think after tinkering with your latest order.

wumpus · Post by **wumpus** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 6:27 am

(ie. wumpus seems to rate "better" fans as those that push greater CFM).

No, I rate "better" fans as those which push decent amounts of air while remaining quiet-- in other words noise/cfm efficiency. All the panaflos I have push comically tiny amounts of air when quiet. I mean, shoot, slow any fan down to 1 RPM and it BETTER be quiet. Hardly an engineering feat.

When *I* say "quieter" or "better" I am almost exclusively referring to bearing noise. Anything that doesn't sound like moving air.

Same here. The evercool aluminum 120mm, for example, makes no discernable noise other than air movement-- even when I put my ear dangerously close to the whizzing blades. It's a bit better than the Enermax 120mm in this regard, which makes a very tiny, relatively high pitched bearing noise.

That may also be how I earned my nickname, "ol' one ear."

marc999 · Post by **marc999** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 9:09 am

I must say I do like the Panaflow L1A, however, only at reduced voltages. It would be nice if Panasonic came out with a UL1A (ultra low) that was like the L1A @10 or 11 volts but @ the default 12 volts. Anyway, I'm not a big fan of undervolting fans because I like to know exactly what voltage the fan is getting. I wish they would come up with a nice small inconspicious fan controller (floppy bay) that has a notch from 5 to 12 volts. Then the L1A would be perect for me. Right now if I need to underold I just use that Zalman thingie that splits off to two 5V and two 12V feeds. The problem with this, is that I could use it at hight voltages than 5V and still not hear it, so I feel like I'm getting screwed on the CFMs.

Anyway, because I like nice clean/minimallist wiring, the NMB 19 is pretty good in my books. It's a lot quieter than the Panaflow at 12V, but perhaps still a little too loud (but still not too bad). Anyway, because of it's simplistic "of out the box" quiet, I believe it deserves a little more credit. I realize though that it doesn't undervolt very well.

aphonos · Post by **aphonos** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 1:34 pm

wumpus wrote:
(ie. wumpus seems to rate "better" fans as those that push greater CFM).
No, I rate "better" fans as those which push decent amounts of air while remaining quiet-- in other words noise/cfm efficiency.

Perhaps I should not have assumed "all other things being equal" in my statement

A "decent" amount of air would be that amount which provides adequete airflow for adequate cooling. "Adequate" in this case meaning "that amount which satisfies the user." Ergo, for some users a 5V 120mm Panaflo will push a "decent" amount of air. Your preferences seem to vary from this (which begs the question, what are the acceptable standards for you?). But it doesn't make the Panaflo overrated.

wumpus wrote:All the panaflos I have push comically tiny amounts of air when quiet. I mean, shoot, slow any fan down to 1 RPM and it BETTER be quiet. Hardly an engineering feat.

I hope you don't mind the side-bar, but your use of words like "beatification," "comically," and "1RPM," make it appear to me that you have a penchant for hyperbole. I'm not sure I would label ~22CFM (the estimated CFM at 5V for a 120mm L1A) as a "comically tiny amount" of air. And no, not all fans are quiet when undervolted (more hyperbole?).

marc999 wrote:the NMB 19 is pretty good in my books. It's a lot quieter than the Panaflow at 12V, but perhaps still a little too loud (but still not too bad)

Too loud by SPCR (meaning the site/MikeC) standards? Yes. Too loud to satisfy an individual user's quest for a quieter computer? Obviously not.

bigred · Post by **bigred** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 10:14 am

bigred wrote:Could someone recommend a fan that has similar noise and under-volt characteristics as the Panaflo L1A, but a more broad output and less of the "spot cooling" effect that the L1A's have? Maybe Pabst?

Anyone? Please

How about the SilenX or Nexus fans?

Panaflo: overrated?

Panaflo: overrated?

Re: Panaflo: overrated?